Bigfoot, the Three Nephites and the Lost Tribes of Israel

January 23, 2008

Today’s post is by SuperNerd. I would like to give a shout out to all the Ward crazies…Where have you all gone?

Every Ward has them and every Ward needs them for comic relief. You know who I’m talking about, that member of the ward who bears his/her testimony every month and always has a miraculous story about angels, the Three Nephites, Bigfoot, the return of the Lost Tribes of Israel, the building of New Jerusalem or some other end time event.

As a teenager my friends and I used to sit in the back pew next to the door laughing at many of the crazy things members would say and do during sacrament. Unfortunately today, I rarely hear these talks, lessons and testimonies. It could be that I’m too busy wrestling with one or more of my four children. However, I think it’s more likely that less and less of these people remain in the Church today.

Recently my wife and I went to dinner with the Bishop, his wife and two other couples from the Ward. During the conversation the Bishop mentioned how his teenage son likes to read and research Bigfoot stories. Not such an unusual hobby when you live in the Northwest. Reaching deep into my “crazy bag” I pulled out an old reference (1969) to Cain that I remembered reading as a teenager in The Miracle of Forgiveness. Over the years several of my missionary companions, Sunday school and Seminary teachers equated this story with Bigfoot.

“On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A. Wilson’s book on the life of David W. Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O. Smoot giving his recollection of David Patten’s account of meeting “a very remarkable person who had represented himself as being Cain.’

‘As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me… His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the holy priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight…” (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, pg 127, 1969)

I was shocked to learn that no one else had heard this story before, no one present had read it in The Miracle of Forgiveness. Perhaps I was the only one who read the miracle of forgiveness? Or maybe I was the only one who paid attention to the strange, odd statements in books written by Church authorities.

Today I rarely hear stories like the one above repeated from the pulpit or taught in classrooms. Although I believe it is a good thing, I do miss the entertainment I used to get from those crazy talks and lessons. My question is how many of you have had similar experiences? Do you still have these experiences today? Or…is this entertaining unique aspect of our worship going the way of the dinosaur?

SingleSpeed

I think members who tell these sorts of stories in Sacrament are dwindling in numbers. I’m only 26 years old, and feel like I remember more crazy stories when I was younger as well. I’ve been in student wards since I was 18, so I suspect you hear a lot fewer crazy stories in student wards. I do recall, however, that I heard plenty of crazy stories from other missionaries while I was serving my mission. Perhaps bigfoot stories are losing popularity, but stories about “the sister missionaries who would have been robbed by gang members except for the large indians following and protecting them” are still alive and well among my generation.
http://bookofmormononline.net KC Kern

I’m convinced the urban legends are still alive, they’re just changing a bit. I remember hearing the New York City mission conference that was to be held in the WTC on 9/11, but miraculously, all missionaries overslept!

My favorite has got to be the rumor that the Jackson County temple has already been constructed in Canada (in small pieces) . As soon as the word is given, the parts will be trucked into Missouri, and within days can be pop-and-locked into place on the temple grounds after the rival churches’ buildings are bulldozed.

I’ve talked to people that have worked in the Church vaults in little cottonwood canyon, and have heard about the mysterious “restricted section.” [Insert church artifact/history rumor here.]
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  The granite vault “stories” have some truth to them that most members are blind to. First of all the actual “vault” itself is on “lease” to the church from the local government and CIA. This was leased back in the 70s. The other end of the vault is still owned by the CIA and has a base directly behind it within the mountain. Anyone can drive a few miles up into the mountain past the vault and see the restricted area signs.
  
  I have talked to two people at least back in the 1990s who worked in the vault and at times had seen men in military uniform, or carrying weapons. One witness who went down the wrong hallway found what appeared to be a laboratory. They saw some people in white medical clothing and along with them some child like small grey skinned beings. (also known among the UFO research community as Greys)
  
  When I lived in Utah my investigations grew much deeper than that story. I found that SLC had the highest number of alien abduction stories / rates than any other city in the United States, so many stories that were “hushed” that a return missionary James Thompson was able to write two entire books on these first hand events.
  
  While I lived in Utah I had seen numerous UFOs over the Wasatch mountains. Back in the 90s it seemed there was a lot of activity, was even a photo floating around at the time of one hovering over the SLC temple.
  
  One can only imagine what is really going on in Utah? All the stories of underground tunnels. The SLC templed was built directly on top of tunnels that already existed out there.
Gardner Gee

One Sunday when I was about 12 or 13 we had a substitute for Sunday School and the teacher started the class like this, “Now, I know the scriptures say that no one can know the day or the hour of the Second Coming but it doesn’t say we can’t know the year.” He then used a host of obscure General Authority quotes and other creative scripture interpretation (he even brought a chart detailing some of his points) to narrow down the Second Coming to three possible years (one of which has now already passed). I won’t say it was a particularly uplifting lesson but by far the most entertaining I’ve ever had!
John Nilsson

Our ward has a few of these folks who tell supernatural stories. They used to be entertaining, but when they happen almost every month from the pulpit, I think they are at best a waste of testimony time and at worst, an encouragement for the youth to believe in this nonsense.

Of course, I consider those who make the serious claim that they have done their genealogy back to Adam and Eve to be in the crazy, supernatural category as well, so I may not be the most reliable definer of “crazy”.

Apparently all LDS missionaries, regardless of where in the world they serve, are required to believe in the “skinwalker” tradition of the Navajo as well. These are shape-shifting shamans who occasionally try to disrupt missionary work on the reservation by running alongside mission cars traveling over sixty miles an hour, putting curses on missionaries, etc.

The bigger points are what has happened to those who see supernatural occurrences on a daily basis? Are they inactive? Joined other churches where the expression of the supernatural is more accepted, like some Pentecostal churches? And what social function did their stories serve? To mark the outer limits of LDS acceptability in terms of the supernatural, perhaps.

Our past recedes farther from us every day, and as it does so, so does the everyday world of our traditional heroes like Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff, and Joseph F. Smith. Wouldn’t they have told many of the same type of stories that the crazies tell today? Would we believe them? Would we believe contemporary leaders if they were to weigh in on Bigfoot, the Three Nephites, the end-times?
Ed

I’ve had a couple interesting experiences within the past year ago.

A gentleman in our ward got up in testimony meeting and told us about how an angel appeared to him as a child, told him to start going by another name, and showed to him the Sword of Laban. I always wanted to ask him how he knew it was Laban’s sword. Was the word “Laban” engraved on the sword somewhere? If so, was it engraved in English or Hebrew or Reformed Egyptian? If the latter two, how was he able to read it?

More recently, an Elders Quorum instructor told us about a dream he had involving Bigfoot. When we asked him to explain what he thought was the meaning of the dream, he answered, “it was Cain,” and then proceeded to tell us about another dream in which he had seen the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Why do I only get to dream about losing my homework? . . .
http://vsom.wordpress.com Steve M

I can’t believe that none of those people had heard of the Cain/Bigfoot legend. On my mission (2002-2004), my companions and I used to laugh about this one all the time.
Jeff Spector

I had heard about a group in the Provo area that was convinced that their Calling and Election had been made sure, that they received personal visitations by the Savior who instucted them to practice polygamy and that they didn’t have to adhere to the institutional authority of the church because they had to answer to a “higher authority.” They began as a study group to look at the “mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” and gain further light and knowledge. Not surprisingly, several were ex’d from the church.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  Meeting with Christ, and receiving your calling and election, is in fact scriptural. The LDS leaders really do not have authority over you anymore its right there in the doctrine and covenants, but once you challenge them on this, you are very quickly shunned, and exed, even if you really have walked with Christ. The good thing is though, if you really truly have walked with Christ, no matter how much heart ache you might encounter being cast out of the church for no good legitimate reason, you know your place with the Lord and know that whatever decision “men” have made against you, that it is not valid in the Lord’s eyes. Although there are I am sure many men who have made their encounters up, lie about it, and go off and perform all kinds of iniquities, like polygamy and such.
FooboyX

John and I know a ward crazy who has the power to bring down lightning on adolescent toughs with his mind. He can also curse those who falsely accuse him of traffic misdemeanors. I am not kidding.
NM Tony

Ahhh, Bigfoot is Cain story! What a classic. I, too, am surprised that so many have not heard this story. Being from the Four Corners area, I have also heard the skinwalker stories. We used to scare each other on Young Men’s camps with stories of how skinwalkers attacked homes, ran along cars, cast spells so rocks would block the way of missionaries. Speculation ran rampant about how these guys were the descendants of the Gadianton robbers or Cain/Master Mahon.

Does anyone remember the stuff W. Cleon Skousen use to talk about? I actually thought his theories had some merit when I was getting ready for my mission.

As far as the testimony crazies, I don’t see any really in my ward. We do have a gentleman who will blurt out the most random stuff in Gospel Doctrine class. Other then that, there very little excitement.

Leaders, I think, won’t touch aliens, Bigfoot, and other paranormal activities with a ten-foot pole. With every word being recorded and documented, they’ve learned to keep their personal theories quiet. I also think the Paul Dunn incident has really tamed a lot of that stuff down. Man, I used to love his stories, too.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  Problem is such stories that the LDS leaders can not explain like paranornal, or alien abduction which actually run rampant in the church, are hushed up behind closed bishopric doors. Having had this happen myself, even leaders who got very angry as far up as the First Presidency. They threaten you with disfellowishipment or worse if you continue talking about any experience like this among the members. Witnessed it first hand.
http://www.thediaryofananarchist.com/ Stephen Wellington

In my next talk I am so going to incorporate:

-Cain/bigfoot
-Men on the moon as moonies
-Zelph
-The stone altar adam built
-The city of enoch descending into the gulf of mexico
Jeff Spector

I believe the men on the moon were quakers!
hawkgrrrl

Zelph makes me wince. The moon men just make me roll my eyes.

Dunn kinda blew it for the urban legendists. There’s plenty of kooky stuff (er, spiritual stuff) in the church that is true–I don’t need fake kooky stuff too. On a related note, there is a toaster you can buy that imprints an image of Jesus on one side and an image of the Virgin Mary on the other side. Surely some fun could be had with that.
John Hamer

I remember being taught in Sunday School (14-15 year olds, I think) the theory that the Earth was actually hollow and that it had a hole at the North Pole. The interior surface (of the hollow globe) was also inhabited and at the Earth’s core was a light/heat source that allowed the people on the inside to see. This interior world was the location of the Lost 10 Tribes, who would be coming “out of the north” sometime soon, in advance of the 2nd coming. Back then, the theory was that this would happen 25-30 years in the future, which means it should be happening right around now.
hawkgrrrl

John – I have heard that one, too. It really creeped me out because it’s so similar to what Charles Manson said to his followers. (Of course, that’s because both were based on the book of Revelations. I guess I was just more familiar with Helter Skelter than the NT at that age.)
NM Tony

Stephen, you hit some great ones there. I forgot all about the Gulf of Mexico being where the City of Enoch was and will be. I had thought of Zelph, but I figure that it’s considered a hoax now rather than legend.

Does anyone remember some of the temple stories? One I recall is when a temple worker was getting ready to close up the SLC temple and saw a light on in a room. He proceeds to go turn it off, but President Kimball, who happened to visiting, told him he would take care of it. Kimball goes to the room, is there a while, supposedly conversing with God. Kimball leaves, but the light is still on. Just as the worker was about to say something the light goes off.

I also remember stories of when Bruce McConkie or Spencer Kimball died, and the apostle who was there claimed that when God calls his prophets home, he does it personally.

John Hamer, that is a new one. I have heard of the Hollow Earth theory, but I had no idea that it was used to explain the lost ten tribes. It seems all sorts of legends surround the lost tribes.
http://www.mormonmatters.org Clay Whipkey

Can anyone tell me any detail on the whole dusting your feet on a doorstep curse? I am a convert and did not serve a mission, so I’ve only heard it spoken of vaguely by returned missionaries who treat the subject with solemn quietude like its a temple ritual or something.
hawkgrrrl

Clay – There are six scriptural references on the shaking dust off your feet. 3 in NT (Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5, Acts 13:51), 3 in D&C (D&C 24:15, D&C 60:15, D&C 75:20). They all say more or less the same thing:

Mark 6: 11. “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the adust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”

I have heard several “urban legend” versions of missionaries who were rejected, then shook the dust off their feet (e.g. in Florida) and then a hurricane hit the town. A friend (who was a notorious fabricator) claimed his mission was told they should stop shaking the dust off their feet because it wasn’t their place to call down the powers of heaven when people probably rejected their message due to the missionaries’ own shortcomings.

Notably, the reference in Mark says “in the day of judgment,” so to me it doesn’t imply that destruction is going to befall the rejectors in a matter of minutes.
http://mormonmatters.org Nick Literski

When I was in a married student ward at USU, the bishop (a CES instructor by the name of Vernon Lee) took it upon himself from time to time to tell us that none of us were “old enough” to take our callings seriously (the ward ranged from 21 to about 30). This expanded to the point that he was telling us about his dreams in sacrament meeting. Invariably, these dreams cast him as a savior figure to the ward members. In one case, he gave us an elaborate description of a dry riverbed, in which all of the ward members were frolicking, getting ourselves muddy, etc. He looked, and could see the dangerous flood waters rushing down the riverbed. Of course, none of us could see them coming, so he had to personally save each and every one of us from being drowned. These dreams of his always struck me as more psychological, than spiritual.
http://www.thediaryofananarchist.com/ Stephen Wellington

Nick…awesome stories…

In south Africa on my mission we had a Branch President who had visions of angels who came to him telling him he would be the first black prophet in the lds church. In one sacrament meeting he had all the children walking behind him as he enetered late into the meeting. As he slowly walked in the room the children walked behind him singing “Follow the Prophet!” hehehe…I think I will use that one too.
http://mormonmatters.org Nick Literski

Augh! I despise that song, Stephen! From the first time I heard it, it’s always brought to mind the scene in The Wizard of Oz, where the soldiers are marching and chanting outside the witch’s castle. Even without its strong brainwashing/automaton overtones, it’s just so dark in tone!
Eric

Go for it (#10), Stephen. Please post a transcript of the talk here when you have succeeded. I look forward to your report on the aftermath.

I’d like to add that I feel like I have grown out of a demon-haunted world, to use Sagan’s phrase. I believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, while I have shed many of the more superstitious aspects of my upbringing, I believe for the better.

One (only tangentially relevant) story to share from my teenage years: friends in the neighboring ward (in Mesa, AZ) hosted a buddy from Provo in their sunday school or quorum class (you can already see that some of the details are fading). The teacher asked, “what’s beyond the solar system? … what’s beyond the galaxy? … etc.” The visitor replied in deadpan: “bugs”. The whole room fell apart with laughter, and the teacher never got to make his point.

Be nice.
http://ethesis.blogspot.com/ Stephen Marsh

Jonah was a prophet, swallowed by a whale
You know all about it, you’ve heard the veggie tale
…
swallow the prophet, swallow the prophet
don’t let him get away

——————

My favorite verse from the song. Nick, how could you not like it?
http://www.ldsustainability.blogspot.com/ Latter-Day Sustainablist

So a friend in my ward had a class from a guy at Idaho State Univ who is a “Bigfoot researcher.” My friend also says that the Bigfoot researcher is a Mormon. I can back up my friend’s first claim…

http://www2.isu.edu/headlines/?p=345

The second claim sounds like a variation of the “Mormon Celebrity” legends. You know, Steve Martin…bla, bla, bla…
John Nilsson

Oh yes, the Bigfoot researcher (Jeff Meldrum)is a Mormon. He co-wrote a book with another scientist on evolution and Mormonism which came out in 2003 or so: http://www.signaturebooks.com/evolution.htm

I wouldn’t say he was a believer in Bigfoot necessarily, but the Cain-Bigfoot connection makes it more interesting.
Dude

I have to tell about the experience I had when I lived in another city where there was a family of Trekkies there. They always wore their trekkie communicator pins to church, etc. Well, the father of the family once got up in Sacrament Meeting and bore his testimony about giving a blessing of comfort to their cat because he was dying.

And then there was the old single lady that we had been home teaching, and we neglected to ever ask what she did for a living. Then one day she got up in Sacrament meeting and announced how she was a clairvoyant and a psychic, and how in her line of work, it isn’t always easy to discern what is the spirit of the Lord and what is not, but that she was able to do so, etc. It seemed before that day, she was timid to tell anybody about it, for good reason. Right after Sacrament, the bishop took her into his office, no doubt giving her a talking to.
http://www.thediaryofananarchist.com/ Stephen Wellington

Dude….I wish that we had more people like that in church….would keep me awake in Sacrament. I will post my talk when I give it…

Do you want me to post my disciplanry letter aswell that will come after it?
Lisa Ray Turner

I love the ward kooks! They are delightful and entertaining. However, it’s sometimes hard to tell where the line ends between someone who’s a bit kooky and someone who’s mentally ill. In a previous ward, the goofy guy ended up exploding a bomb in the town’s post office. Definitely crossed the kooky/mentally ill line …
Dude

Well, I think that kookiness and mental illness a lot go hand in hand. Especially when somebody thinks that they have to go off and start their own church, I think is a delusion of grandeur.
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http://jinxparker@wordpress.com jinxparker

Just a few years ago we had a dear sister stand to bear her testimony. She urged the congregation to practice using their spiritual powers. Then she placed a pencil on the lower, level part of the pulpit and passed her had over it, it rolled to the left. She then passed her hand (easily six inches above) the other way and it rolled to the right. “When you can do that you’re beginning to have control of your spiritual powers.” She implied that she could do much more, but didn’t feel it would be approprate to show off in Fast and Testimony Meeting.

I noticed that she too was invited into the Bishop’s office after the meeting.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  Where she was probably promptly told to shut up and never bear her testimony again or else. Happened to me after I testified I had seen angels after my father was in a bad car accident. ITs sad that a church based on a young man who saw angels in his bedroom and GOD and JESUS in the woods criticizes its own members who have similar experiences. And I do not want to hear the “don’t cast your pearls before swine” excuse. They know exactly why they are telling you to be quiet. It’s called disbelief.
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Rossana D

I am a member of the church for 12 years, when I first started I used to be delighted by the mysteries of the gospel, alliens, paranormal experiences,mysterious stories, until one day right after a prayer a personal revelation came to my mind only by small and simple things our salvation is achieve.
Why did Jesus taught in parables? so the ones that are ready will understand. By obedience you’ll know all the mysteries of God, the ones that you will need for your salvation. I found many mysteries revealed to me in the temple.
A little while ago in our ward an Indian lady stood up to bear his testimony in RS ,she said that at night is better to be in our homes because the spirits get out at night and can posses us,etc.
It is interesting to listen to interesting stories but do we feel the spirit when we heard them? If not it is because they are not coming from our master. Paranormal stuff leads us to another direction.
Just an opinion.
http://indybooks.blogspot.com/ Bookslinger

Be nice. I’m one of those “ward crazies”.

Besides, the truth is stranger than fiction.

On some level, all faithful Mormons appear crazy to non-Mormons?

“10%? No coffee or tea? Skip two meals once a month? THREE hours on Sunday? Special underwear? You guys are CRAZY!”

It’s all relative.
Josh

Zelph is a true story. I just read it recently in official publications from BYU from the 1930′s or there about. (1936 if Im not mistaken. There were several people present who gave accounts.
Lohengrin

While a missionary in Portland, Oregon I had the chance to see tons of crazy people, many of whom were in the church! My favorite was this guy who had recieved 14 (and counting) visions about the end of the world. Short version: The Battle of Armageddon will take place in Ohio (around the Kirtland Temple). The UN and NATO will invade the US, using the tanks and weapons that they have burried all over the country. The Chineese will also use the UFOs that they have built to invade the US. This crazy brother will flee “into the Pacific Ocean” (he wouldn’t tell us where) and wait seven years, during which there will be fighting all over the US. Finally, God will hit China and Europe with a comet, giving the Americans the first advantage they have had during the war. Our crazy brother will then return from the ocean and help the US by building the lazers and pulse cannons that are capable of taking out China’s UFOs. The US will be victorious after a few more years of fighting, at which time Zion will be built in Missouri and Christ will return.
I miss that guy.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  Was his name Dorian? Or are there more than one of these loons that have told me similar stories. Knew a member named Dorian who had similar stories, and that the y2k bug would destroy america and he fled to live on an island for 7 years until a comet passed. Never heard from him again.
http://www.AlliesOfHumanity.org The Wind

I wouldn’t laugh too hard at this person………they are closer to the truth than you can even imagine!

“While a missionary in Portland, Oregon I had the chance to see tons of crazy people, many of whom were in the church! My favorite was this guy who had recieved 14 (and counting) visions about the end of the world. Short version: The Battle of Armageddon will take place in Ohio (around the Kirtland Temple). The UN and NATO will invade the US, using the tanks and weapons that they have burried all over the country. The Chineese will also use the UFOs that they have built to invade the US. This crazy brother will flee “into the Pacific Ocean” (he wouldn’t tell us where) and wait seven years, during which there will be fighting all over the US. Finally, God will hit China and Europe with a comet, giving the Americans the first advantage they have had during the war. Our crazy brother will then return from the ocean and help the US by building the lazers and pulse cannons that are capable of taking out China’s UFOs. The US will be victorious after a few more years of fighting, at which time Zion will be built in Missouri and Christ will return.
I miss that guy.”
Carol

I had a Sunday School teacher back in the day who had some fantastic, personally experienced Ouiji Board stories that would make your hair stand on end. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t sticking to the manual.

The “crazies” are still there – they’ve just gone underground, sharing their beliefs and experiences with mostly like-minded persons. It is true that for some, Mental Illness is the source, but there are others whose experiences can’t be so easily dismissed or explained away.

In recent years, those who have in the past shared such things from the pulpit or in classrooms are generally counselled by their leaders to hold them sacred and not discuss them publically. In some cases, it is out of a genuine belief that such things are sacred and should not be discussed publically, but in more cases, they are not believed and it is the equivalent of a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy to put the crazies into the closet.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  When they tell you to keep your experiences “sacred” what they really mean is “secret” and do not tell anyone. They do not understand the meaning of the word sacred. They wears robes of a false priesthood, if the priesthood was sacred that would also be done in private. The experiences Joseph Smith had were “Sacred” yet was told to tell everyone, and speak it from the mountain tops. The Lord does not give you experiences to hide them in darkness as the leaders would have you do. The Lord gives you those special experiences for you to be a light unto the world. The Lord NEVER worked in secret, nor did he hide any of his miracles or powers. The church is so bass-ackwards. In the early whe days of the church these “experiences” happened in front of congregations and were common place. Now the church is more mainstream and politically correct, more afraid of being different. I remember when they used to teach “being different was being great” where now they are afraid to be called Mormons.
Jack

While i know these stories have to be taken with a pinch of salt, all myths and legends start with a small amount of truth.
I’m not saying any of them are true but lets face it we all believe in the second coming of Christ and personally that sounds just as crazy as 3 people coming and going helping people out without them ever knowing who they are, or that Cain is bigfoot.
I heard so many weird stories and I’m only 19 and they’ll keep coming.
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http://www.nhfelt.org Jonathan Felt

Perhaps when Super Nerd says, “Every Ward has them and every Ward needs them for comic relief” he is unwittingly fulfilling a prophecy. “…for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.” — Moroni 7:37 — In order to sift out truth from error, wouldn’t members of Christ’s church need to hear one another’s impressions and beliefs. An effective way to stop people from sharing their thoughts is to be derisive and to dismiss them as “crazies.”
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  A prophet is not accepted among his own people. Yea so even members are gonna call them crazy or weird, or not part of the “click” You have people reading a book about seeing angels, then they pray to find out its true, but you expect it to stop there? What about the gifts of tongues, visions, angelic speaking, everything mentioned in the Book of Mormon that is promised to members, but once someone actually develops these abilities the rest of the members call ya whacko, or shun you. Wake up people. The Book of Mormon has its fingers pointed right at you, it was meant for you!
http://mormonmatters.org Pheel

“…I hear all these voices in my head…”

…Hollow earth, Bigfoot,hiway cast up from the deep,the 3 Nephites,etc.,etc……vut is dis Zelph?? I will google it…someone please respond, I’ll check daily…….Pheel
http://donahuer53@gmail.com Rob

My Wife & I were married in the DC Temple in 1979. I was born there but had not lived there for 25 years. As we were headed for the Temple after spending the night before in DC I got lost trying to find my way to the Belt Way. It was about 4:30 in the morning and not a soul was around to ask for directions. So I pulled into the middle of an empty Mall parking lot to try and get my bearings.

As soon as I stoped, I looked over to my wife and asked her a question. At that very moment, I heard a soft voice come from my left side and as I turned to see who it was, there was a very nicely dressed Woman with her head near my window asking me if I needed directions.

She gave them to me and as soon as I looked back to my wife, I turned again to thank the Woman and there was no one there. There was no one in the parking lot when we pulled in and the Woman had not driven up to us in a car.

Now she may have not been one of the Three Nephites but could have been one of their wives, as I couldn’t imagine them having to be here all this time without them.

It was either that, or she was a WELL DRESSED Woman that just happened to be walking around the streets of DC on her way to work at 4:00 in the Morning!!!

If you are familar with DC, then this encounter becomes apparent that only an ANGEL would be crazy enough to cruise the streets of DC in the dark, asking strangers if they needed directions. And NO, she was not a Hooker.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  She was one of your “Spirit Guides” Everyone has them.
Kim

Here’s a great one for you. 2,000 years ago this guy dies and 3 days later comes back to life never to die again. That at some future point everyone who every dies will be brought back to life, incapable of feeling physical pain, sustaining physical injury or falling ill, never to die again. Reading all the comments here, we all can agree what total nonsense this all is. There is no Big Foot. Cain would have drowned in the flood, or did he hang-on to the outside of Noah’s Arc for 18 months without food or fresh water? There are no Lost Ten Tribes and the Earth isn’t hollow. In-fact, hollow regions within the Earth, like caves, are just a bunch of tripe! There is no City of Enoch. If it were taken-up, where did it go? We ought to put Hubble on the task and track that SpaceCity down. There are no angels, no one is floating outside your car window on the beltway giving you instructions. What there is, is the fact that 95% of the female population in the Salt Lake Valley and Utah Valleys of Utah are all on anti-depressants. Probably 100% of the men ought to be on anti-psychotics as well. And hey, is it really true that 20% of all mainstream Mormons who live in the Salt Lake Valley secretly practice polygamy, so they won’t get kicked out of their Church?
- unimpressed
  
  Poor Kim. So little faith. It’s not entirely your fault. You hear crazy things about the Mormon church from your friends or other people that you trust and so you believe what they say. Never had a moment to figure things out for yourself. Unaware of and ungrateful for the power that created you, and which you could possess, if you didn’t believe that little ol you had all the answers. There is evidence of God in all around you. The delicate balance that holds this entire universe together, the discoveries that scientists continue to make about more planets, more solar systems, endless universe. God already created all this, and we have the nerve to tell him how it works as we figure it out little by little. Yet, with all the potential you have as a creation of God, you are nothing without faith. You are doubtless, dubious dust, and to the dust you will return with a bitter ignorance for something right at your fingertips that you never grasped.
  - KeepingItReal
    
    You think your smugness in this and your other recent post/reply are actually constructive, that they’d have a chance to be persuasive? Oh man, it is attitudes like yours that make it very hard for people to want to consider reconnecting with religious communities.
HANK

ABOUT THE THREE NEPHITES. WHY WAS THERE A RESTORATION NEEDED IF YOU HAVE THREE OF JESUS’S APOSTLES WHO HOLD THE PRIESTHOOD STILL ON THE EARTH ?
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  Apparently someone over looked that, or at some point even the three Nephites were told to stop ministering, as John the Beloved did.
Cswanson38

I have been reading about the early days in Utah when Brigham Young was president. Diaries have been found and documented that tells of women laying on hands and blessing the sisters which did then recover from their illness. The diaries also tell of the early saints speaking in tongues such as the penecostal churches do today. I thought only the priesthood where allowed or had the athority to heal by laying on of hands.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  In the early days of the church the priesthood was given to women. This is why the RLDS now as well also gives women the priesthood.
- MrsMomAZ
  
  Healing is a gift of the Spirit as are all the gifts listed in D & C 46. Healing by the sisters was done with the knowledge and approval of the Prophet Joseph Smith by his wife Eliza R. Snow and other women of the Relief Society administering to the sick.
Dudey McDuderson

People have been told quite often to keep things simple, especially in wards outside of Utah when the missionaries have an investigator
Scoobydoo_2000

The gospel of Jesus Christ is true. The plan of salvation is perfect. The people are not.

In 1997, the city of Nahom written about in the Book of Mormon, was found in Yemen, in the relative vacinity described.

If you apply the same methods of understanding the ancient civilizations in the Book of Mormon as they apply them to the rest of the ancient cultures of the world, the Book of Mormon would be scientificly proven as true history, as much as the Bible is.

There are so many correlations between the Book of Mormon and MeasoAmerica you would be amazed. Get a a copy of the book, MeasoAmerica and the Book of Mormon, Is this the Place, and read it.

All these urban legends are not worth the time to tell or listen to. Seek the Kingdom, search for truth, and don’t expect perfection from anyone, even a prophet.

If you need attention and a desisre to feel special regail us with facts and knowledge, instead of mysterious bedtime stories.
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  Wrong. There is almost absolutely no proof the Nephites lived in MesoAmerica. The cities there are much older than Nephites. The Nephites lived in the same region the gold plates were found, in the great lakes area. The Nephites constantly tell us in the book of mormon they built houses out of TIMBER. That’s wood ladies and gentlemen, not large sophisticated cement temples. I highly suggest reading several books written by Phylis Carol Olive, found at bookofmormonlands.com. It makes so much more sense than a meso-america setting. All the early church leaders reported the new york area as being the home of the Nephites. Christ walked the americas in the great lakes region.
Annilita

Every ward I’ve lived in has had either a crazy person or an obsessive conspiracist. Or both. I grew up in the NE US where we had a woman who would speak for 20 minutes at testimony meetings about their latest ghost encounter and the angels who visited her as a child. At the ward in AZ, it was a fellow who would sub occasionally for Sunday School and not even attempt to use the manual. He’d just fill us in on his latest research. It was always… Interesting. Now we are here in the Philippines, which has an active, cultural belief in ghosts and spirits and anytime a lesson even hints at an afterlife or the followers of Satan, the class explodes in one-upmanship about whose spouse stuck around the longest to offer comfort and whose evil cousin was tormented the most by demons.
The last time we were in MA, the woman I mentioned previously got up yet again and began speaking and I realized the wisdom of holding sacred experiences sacred and not sharing them with large groups of people. Either your experiences WERE sacred and you are casting pearls before swine and they will be mocked, or you are outing yourself as a nutjob. Either way, rarely do these faith-promoting experiences touch those who did not experience it first hand.
WagglyToast

I was about 16 years old when I saw my first conspiracy theorist bear his testimony. He told us all how the Japanese were going to try and take over the world. He then pulled out a gun, waived it in the air, and told all the “Japs” to come forward. No sooner did he get that sentence out of his mouth than the Bishop and his two counselors had him on the ground with other males running towards the pulpit. We looked like a bunch of Catholics in mass because we were all crouched down as he waived the gun. Talk about a crazy Sunday. It took about five minutes for the next person to stand up and bear a testimony. It was a teenage girl, and she did an amazing job. I still remember her testimony as well, and I’m 31 now.

I live in Alabama and have heard some crazy stories and witnessed some impressive talks and testimonies over the years. One lady brought her son to church on a leash. One Sunday during fast and testimony meeting she took him to the pulpit, picked him up, and placed him to the side where the tissues normally sit. She proceeded to talk about him as her “little miracle” for a long time (I want to say it was like 20 minutes, but when a kook is talking, it seems like forever when you look back). She had a meeting with the Bishop afterwards. She never brought him to church on a leash again.I’ve heard many stories, like the one about when the car cranked as gang members encircled the sister missionaries’ car, but as the sisters were pulling into their apartment complex the car conked out. The sisters checked under the hood, and to their astonishment, there was no battery. And then there’s the one about the man fleeing the police who entered the temple (pick your favorite) through a back door (and I didn’t know we even had back doors on our temples). When the only LDS cop on the beat entered the temple and found the suspect, he was curled up in the fetal position on the floor begging the cop to take him away before the 13 ft. men with swords and shields killed him. And I’m surprised no one mentioned any of the infamous MTC stories. The one about the 2,000 stripling warriors guarding the entrances to the buildings to keep Satan and his legions out. I think it was Brigham Young who mentioned that the Lord knows to whom he can reveal certain truths, because they will not go and blab everything they know or reveal every sacred experience they have. I have always believed that and reading your posts has solidified that belief.

Since Stephen hasn’t posted here in a while I assume he gave his talk and is now a member of the Pentecostal Church. Good luck Stephen.
LittleMissie

Golly Bill….I must have had some darn influential ‘crazies’ in my childhood hit-and-miss Sunday School attendance in small wards and branches in WY, FL, AR and MO as these ‘oddities’ have been a part of my belief-system for as long as I can remember! . Hollow earth. 8-foot-tall Lamanite mummies in Arizona. Cain as Bigfoot, Ten Tribes coming en masse to construct a road after the polar icecaps melt, and using the power of their priesthood to save America from the nefarious Chinese Red Army in the Last Days….oh yeah! Funny thing, until I read all of the posts today, I had no idea that my ‘beliefs’ were nutso: they all made perfect sense to me! Added to those mentioned must be my personal favorite in that the City of Enoch was take UP into heaven and will return (come back down) as an enormous UFO/meteorite someday….add to that my beliefs that aliens from other planets are visitors from legitimate ‘other worlds’ mentioned in scripture and we will come to know them as brothers someday and that the ‘other sheep’ the Savior taught were on other planets as well, planets that were not evil enough to crucify their very Savior…unlike wicked Earth….Yes, I have kept all my little pet beliefs close in my heart, rarely daring to share them (especially NOT during testimony meeting or while teaching Gospel Doctrine for 7 years) with anyone for fear of ridicule and now i see that decision was a wise one…I will not soon be sharing with ANYONE, EVER! But I won’t label anyone ‘crazy’, either: we DO look like crazies to the mainstream, I fear.
name withheld for fear of, well…you know….
Patricia Derk Gatacre

According to reliable accounts about Bigfoot the description of these organisms are clearly that of the Nephelim. Remnants of this ancient life form reveal themselves all over the world, given different names to identify the same entity. Luckily their numbers are sufficiently few and as such they pose no danger to those who glimpse them at a distance. Any sightings from a close range or interactions between the Nephelim and purely human observers must be considered fraudulent. Little is written of the Nephelim other than in Jewish mythology.
On a December night in 2005, before leaving Tel Aviv for Eilat, crossing the Negev in caravan, I had a nightmare from which I awoke yelling, “Horrible, horrible!” The Nephelim provided me with images of terror and death but I was unable to relate the admittedly vague contents of my dream to my companions. I was left with a dark, ominous presence but departed with my group at three a.m. to be able to view the Ramon Crater at sunrise — a spectacular sight.
I had managed to shake off the aura of my nightmare when, three days later while shopping at a mall near Eilat, breaking news flashed onto the screen of an in-store television. The scene was one of chaos and destruction in Netanya — a local resort suburb of Tel Aviv. A suicide bombing took the lives of six people that day, including children, in a plaza less than a block from the small hotel where we’d stayed five days prior to the attack. Why did the Nephelim invade my sleep with dream imagery of an event yet to occur but without the means to prevent the actuality of that horrifc event. This is not to say the Nephelim appear only as wraiths; they possess both corporeal and incorporeal forms just as substance and essence co-exist in matter. However, the substance they present is as “the fallen sons of God.” Their influence in the everyday lives of humanity is predictably unknown.
Shalom,
Rabbi Shlomo Yeti
- http://www.facebook.com/toddjumper Todd Jumper
  
  No they are not the “Nephilim” Those were giants in the old testament, 30-40 feet tall and looked nothing like Sasquatch which are highly evolved primates. They speak not only by yelling but with telepathy. Very shy and timid and expert and not being seen. Why is it, the religious attribute every “unknown” being whether it alien or bigfoot as a Nephilim. They were wiped out long ago. Sasquatch are very benevolent creatures, if anything humans are the “Fallen ones” and would defintely be dangerous to Bigfoot.. after all we intrude on their land – they are more or less silent guardians of the forest and very misunderstood creatures that would no longer fit into society.
unimpressed

So, let me get this straight… you’re calling words quoted by a prophet… in your “crazy bag”? I see. Well, while I don’t know the answers to everything, I do know that a smug, “educated” man like yourself is only limiting your mind to what you want to believe. Perhaps you are still that dubious youth sitting on the back row, laughing at other people’s personal experiences. I think after this life, you will be in for quite a surprise, my brother.

Mormon Matters

Bigfoot, the Three Nephites and the Lost Tribes of Israel

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