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	<title>Comments on: Why Eugene England Still Matters</title>
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		<title>By: Kandee</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-157438</link>
		<dc:creator>Kandee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-157438</guid>
		<description>Shawn Larsen,
I do not know who you are but I so appreciated your post.  I am grateful for Eugene England and need to fellowship with like minded saints.  Thank you.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shawn Larsen,<br />
I do not know who you are but I so appreciated your post.  I am grateful for Eugene England and need to fellowship with like minded saints.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Hunter</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-120931</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-120931</guid>
		<description>I just saw this in the old stuff link on the front page. Thanks for this post. I am new to England&#039;s work having only read Making Peace, but I also have several friends / acquaintances who were friends with him, and I enjoy hearing them talk about him. 

From reading Making Peace I think that its something of a misnomer to describe England in terms of Mormon studies. Making Peace is the work of a theologian rather than of an academic. I think this is an important distinction and part of the reason that England maters now and will continue to matter for a long time to come. We mormons don&#039;t talk about theology much at all, but there is a degree to which we are constantly doing some sort of theology, its usually informal, very limited, incomplete, and often sloppy but its theology nonetheless.  England is an example of what Mormon theology looks like when its done well, and focused on Christ.  The only problem is that England was just about the only Mormon theologian we&#039;ve had. These day Bob Reese is stepping up to the plate and doing some wonderful work, but if you don&#039;t attend Sunstone you are going to miss out on a lot of what he does.  I think we should see England&#039;s work as a challenge.  He challenges us to become better theologians and better Christians, to produce a body of Mormon theology that is worthy of the name and that explores the beauty and potential of the religion that will never be spoken of in Conference or Sunday School.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw this in the old stuff link on the front page. Thanks for this post. I am new to England&#8217;s work having only read Making Peace, but I also have several friends / acquaintances who were friends with him, and I enjoy hearing them talk about him. </p>
<p>From reading Making Peace I think that its something of a misnomer to describe England in terms of Mormon studies. Making Peace is the work of a theologian rather than of an academic. I think this is an important distinction and part of the reason that England maters now and will continue to matter for a long time to come. We mormons don&#8217;t talk about theology much at all, but there is a degree to which we are constantly doing some sort of theology, its usually informal, very limited, incomplete, and often sloppy but its theology nonetheless.  England is an example of what Mormon theology looks like when its done well, and focused on Christ.  The only problem is that England was just about the only Mormon theologian we&#8217;ve had. These day Bob Reese is stepping up to the plate and doing some wonderful work, but if you don&#8217;t attend Sunstone you are going to miss out on a lot of what he does.  I think we should see England&#8217;s work as a challenge.  He challenges us to become better theologians and better Christians, to produce a body of Mormon theology that is worthy of the name and that explores the beauty and potential of the religion that will never be spoken of in Conference or Sunday School.</p>
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		<title>By: Ulysseus</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-115018</link>
		<dc:creator>Ulysseus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-115018</guid>
		<description>As a student in the Honor&#039;s Colloquim at BYU in 1981, Dr. England and the rest of the professors in that program had a significant impact on me.  They probably kept me active in the Church for a significantly longer period of time than I would have if they hadn&#039;t influenced my life.

My pacifist, liberal leanings come directly from those years.  I ultimately came to the conclusion that maybe the Church wasn&#039;t quite as true as the gospel, but Dr. England always tempered my responses and made me remember that our societal constructs are a critical part of what makes us human.  Thinking back now, the education I received was as a humanist and anyone who can impart that gift deserves accolades and kudos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a student in the Honor&#8217;s Colloquim at BYU in 1981, Dr. England and the rest of the professors in that program had a significant impact on me.  They probably kept me active in the Church for a significantly longer period of time than I would have if they hadn&#8217;t influenced my life.</p>
<p>My pacifist, liberal leanings come directly from those years.  I ultimately came to the conclusion that maybe the Church wasn&#8217;t quite as true as the gospel, but Dr. England always tempered my responses and made me remember that our societal constructs are a critical part of what makes us human.  Thinking back now, the education I received was as a humanist and anyone who can impart that gift deserves accolades and kudos.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Keith Christensen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-28548</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Keith Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-28548</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the &quot;Why the Church is True&quot; essay by England,and have loved the testimony Eugene England in other writings I&#039;ve read.  
I get nervous when I read that there are those who are afraid to speak up in Elders Quorum meetings for fear of causing troubles.  Too frequently those who express such concerns are those who would like to hold their superior light and wisdom up for others to admire and they withhold because they would not be sufficiently appreciated.  In reality they may be tending towards puffery, pride, arrogance and intollerance.

Now dear Shawn,you clothe yourself in the holy garments of the Democratic party and say that you oppose the war.  If you will review the wars of the past 60 years, you may find a difficult correlation with Democratic Party and peace or conversely Republican Party and war.  It just doesn&#039;t wash.

But I love the dialogue here.  I don&#039;t have much time to read this type of blog as a full time missionary serving with my wife in - of course - England.  But I wanted to find the essay and give to to a member here who will get a real spiritual lift from consideration of it.  

I loved the revisiting of spiritual experiences in England&#039;s article because I have had those experiences too.  But perhaps even more universally valuable is the reminder that loving and serving unconditionally is a significant purpose of the church.

Love to you all - for all of us are truly seekers of truth.  Keith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the &#8220;Why the Church is True&#8221; essay by England,and have loved the testimony Eugene England in other writings I&#8217;ve read.<br />
I get nervous when I read that there are those who are afraid to speak up in Elders Quorum meetings for fear of causing troubles.  Too frequently those who express such concerns are those who would like to hold their superior light and wisdom up for others to admire and they withhold because they would not be sufficiently appreciated.  In reality they may be tending towards puffery, pride, arrogance and intollerance.</p>
<p>Now dear Shawn,you clothe yourself in the holy garments of the Democratic party and say that you oppose the war.  If you will review the wars of the past 60 years, you may find a difficult correlation with Democratic Party and peace or conversely Republican Party and war.  It just doesn&#8217;t wash.</p>
<p>But I love the dialogue here.  I don&#8217;t have much time to read this type of blog as a full time missionary serving with my wife in &#8211; of course &#8211; England.  But I wanted to find the essay and give to to a member here who will get a real spiritual lift from consideration of it.  </p>
<p>I loved the revisiting of spiritual experiences in England&#8217;s article because I have had those experiences too.  But perhaps even more universally valuable is the reminder that loving and serving unconditionally is a significant purpose of the church.</p>
<p>Love to you all &#8211; for all of us are truly seekers of truth.  Keith</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bigelow</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-24151</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bigelow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-24151</guid>
		<description>BradW #23 wrote: &quot;I have no doubt that many of these people–now in their 30s and 40s–would cite Gene as the single most important person in their college education and in the process of their becoming adults within their own faith culture.&quot;

Yep, I&#039;m one of those. I had the pleasure of taking England&#039;s Mormon literature course in the mid-1990s and getting to know him personally, and he got me involved in the Association for Mormon Letters, Sunstone, and other things that have played a HUGE role in my life. No other college professor in undergrad or grad had as big an influence on me, and I&#039;m so glad I didn&#039;t miss out.

Also, he is probably the one person I personally know within Mormonism who I admire most as a role model, influence, etc. including his flaws and humanity, which make most General Authorities look like robots in comparison. I was more sad when he died than when President Hinckley died, and while I usually avoid funerals, England&#039;s was one I made sure to attend. I haven&#039;t actually read many of his essays and haven&#039;t agreed with some of his theological views (such as on polygamy), but I just love his attitude and influence on breaking out of the usual Mormon boxes, and he pointed me in so many valuable, rewarding directions. I don&#039;t know if I can ever forgive BYU for not appreciating and valuing him to the end.

I can&#039;t wait for the biography! I do hope a more narrative one is done sometime too about all the ins and outs of his fascinating life, in addition to this collection of essays Charlotte England mentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BradW #23 wrote: &#8220;I have no doubt that many of these people–now in their 30s and 40s–would cite Gene as the single most important person in their college education and in the process of their becoming adults within their own faith culture.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep, I&#8217;m one of those. I had the pleasure of taking England&#8217;s Mormon literature course in the mid-1990s and getting to know him personally, and he got me involved in the Association for Mormon Letters, Sunstone, and other things that have played a HUGE role in my life. No other college professor in undergrad or grad had as big an influence on me, and I&#8217;m so glad I didn&#8217;t miss out.</p>
<p>Also, he is probably the one person I personally know within Mormonism who I admire most as a role model, influence, etc. including his flaws and humanity, which make most General Authorities look like robots in comparison. I was more sad when he died than when President Hinckley died, and while I usually avoid funerals, England&#8217;s was one I made sure to attend. I haven&#8217;t actually read many of his essays and haven&#8217;t agreed with some of his theological views (such as on polygamy), but I just love his attitude and influence on breaking out of the usual Mormon boxes, and he pointed me in so many valuable, rewarding directions. I don&#8217;t know if I can ever forgive BYU for not appreciating and valuing him to the end.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t wait for the biography! I do hope a more narrative one is done sometime too about all the ins and outs of his fascinating life, in addition to this collection of essays Charlotte England mentions.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-21619</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-21619</guid>
		<description>I was fortunate to receive a call from England&#039;s widow, Charlotte, responding to some of the questions posed in the comments above.  She informed me that, in fact, a biography of her husband is in the works.  It will be different than a traditional biography, however, in that it will be a collection of essays written by different folks about their experiences with England.  The essays are still coming in, and they would like to have it completed as soon as possible.  I, for on, are looking forward.

In addition, England&#039;s last major project &quot;A Reader&#039;s Edition of the Book of Mormon,&quot; is finally out through Signature Books.  The book spilts the 1830 BoM thematically into 7 separate books, each with an essay by a prominent Mormon scholar, including Cluadia Bushman and Edward Kimball.  It looks fantastic and can be purchased here:  http://www.signaturebooks.com/bookofmormon.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was fortunate to receive a call from England&#8217;s widow, Charlotte, responding to some of the questions posed in the comments above.  She informed me that, in fact, a biography of her husband is in the works.  It will be different than a traditional biography, however, in that it will be a collection of essays written by different folks about their experiences with England.  The essays are still coming in, and they would like to have it completed as soon as possible.  I, for on, are looking forward.</p>
<p>In addition, England&#8217;s last major project &#8220;A Reader&#8217;s Edition of the Book of Mormon,&#8221; is finally out through Signature Books.  The book spilts the 1830 BoM thematically into 7 separate books, each with an essay by a prominent Mormon scholar, including Cluadia Bushman and Edward Kimball.  It looks fantastic and can be purchased here:  <a href="http://www.signaturebooks.com/bookofmormon.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.signaturebooks.com/bookofmormon.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: BradW</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12219</link>
		<dc:creator>BradW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 04:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12219</guid>
		<description>One aspect of Gene England&#039;s life and work that has not been mentioned here is the indelible influence he had on hundreds of BYU students.  He taught for a number of years in the Honors Program, at least from the late 1970s through the 1980s, maybe later, I&#039;m not sure.  A large percentage of the best, most talented BYU students of these years were Gene&#039;s students, or learned with him in ventures such as Food for Poland.  I have no doubt that many of these people--now in their 30s and 40s--would cite Gene as the single most important person in their college education and in the process of their becoming adults within their own faith culture.  A biography would be welcome; it ideally would simultaneously be a history of Mormon thought and culture of his era, of the transition from a religion of people like Lowell Bennion to the corporate Mormonism of today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One aspect of Gene England&#8217;s life and work that has not been mentioned here is the indelible influence he had on hundreds of BYU students.  He taught for a number of years in the Honors Program, at least from the late 1970s through the 1980s, maybe later, I&#8217;m not sure.  A large percentage of the best, most talented BYU students of these years were Gene&#8217;s students, or learned with him in ventures such as Food for Poland.  I have no doubt that many of these people&#8211;now in their 30s and 40s&#8211;would cite Gene as the single most important person in their college education and in the process of their becoming adults within their own faith culture.  A biography would be welcome; it ideally would simultaneously be a history of Mormon thought and culture of his era, of the transition from a religion of people like Lowell Bennion to the corporate Mormonism of today.</p>
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		<title>By: DanielJ</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12104</link>
		<dc:creator>DanielJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12104</guid>
		<description>Hey John,

I think you need to change your issue # from 120 to 121 on your link  

I&#039;m a huge Eugene England fan and love this tribute issue.

Thanks to you and to Sunstone for making it available like this.

Dan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey John,</p>
<p>I think you need to change your issue # from 120 to 121 on your link  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a huge Eugene England fan and love this tribute issue.</p>
<p>Thanks to you and to Sunstone for making it available like this.</p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>By: John Dehlin</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12099</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dehlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12099</guid>
		<description>Matt,

I&#039;ll raise you one.  Here are all the articles from that issue in PDF form:

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_backissues&amp;task=contents&amp;issue=120

I&#039;m loving the new site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll raise you one.  Here are all the articles from that issue in PDF form:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_backissues&#038;task=contents&#038;issue=120" rel="nofollow">https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_backissues&#038;task=contents&#038;issue=120</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m loving the new site.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Thurston</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12090</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Thurston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12090</guid>
		<description>The words &quot;commission&quot; and &quot;Sunstone&quot; in the same sentance is funny.

By the way, for those interested, there is a Sunstone magazine issue from January 2002 that is almost entirely devoted to Gene England.  Every single article in this particular issue is a mouse click away:

http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/mag-issue-121.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The words &#8220;commission&#8221; and &#8220;Sunstone&#8221; in the same sentance is funny.</p>
<p>By the way, for those interested, there is a Sunstone magazine issue from January 2002 that is almost entirely devoted to Gene England.  Every single article in this particular issue is a mouse click away:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/mag-issue-121.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/mag-issue-121.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12060</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12060</guid>
		<description>Now that&#039;s a good question!  Embedded in the second paragraph of my post is a link to the complete on-line version England&#039;s &quot;Dialogues with Myself,&quot; which includes a couple of my favorites:  &quot;Letter to a College Student,&quot; &quot;The Hosanna Shout in Washington D.C.&quot; and &quot;Blessing the Chevrolet.&quot;  From there, you can delve into the archives of Dialogue and Sunstone.  Here&#039;s a link to the Sunstone search engine:  https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_mira&amp;Itemid=35&amp;searchword=eugene+england&amp;filter=pdf&amp;searchphrase=any&amp;constraint=author.  

You&#039;ll definitely want to read &quot;Why the Church is as True as the Gospel.&quot;  It&#039;s likely his best-known work and a stone-cold classic.  Another fun way to experience him is through recordings of his Sunstone symposium readings (use the link above).  Anyone else have suggestions?  Happy hunting!  Let us know what you think once you&#039;ve had time to read a few things.

Matt Thurston -- am I ever going to collect a commission for all this Sunstone-shilling I&#039;ve been doing lately? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that&#8217;s a good question!  Embedded in the second paragraph of my post is a link to the complete on-line version England&#8217;s &#8220;Dialogues with Myself,&#8221; which includes a couple of my favorites:  &#8220;Letter to a College Student,&#8221; &#8220;The Hosanna Shout in Washington D.C.&#8221; and &#8220;Blessing the Chevrolet.&#8221;  From there, you can delve into the archives of Dialogue and Sunstone.  Here&#8217;s a link to the Sunstone search engine:  <a href="https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_mira&#038;Itemid=35&#038;searchword=eugene+england&#038;filter=pdf&#038;searchphrase=any&#038;constraint=author" rel="nofollow">https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_mira&#038;Itemid=35&#038;searchword=eugene+england&#038;filter=pdf&#038;searchphrase=any&#038;constraint=author</a>.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;ll definitely want to read &#8220;Why the Church is as True as the Gospel.&#8221;  It&#8217;s likely his best-known work and a stone-cold classic.  Another fun way to experience him is through recordings of his Sunstone symposium readings (use the link above).  Anyone else have suggestions?  Happy hunting!  Let us know what you think once you&#8217;ve had time to read a few things.</p>
<p>Matt Thurston &#8212; am I ever going to collect a commission for all this Sunstone-shilling I&#8217;ve been doing lately? <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: AHLDuke</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12059</link>
		<dc:creator>AHLDuke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12059</guid>
		<description>I am one of those younger folks who is just coming to know England through tidbits that get dropped here and there on the Bloggernacle.  I was not even a member of the Church yet when he died and am not personally acquainted with anyone who took a class from him.  If I wanted to learn more about England and his work, where and how would you all suggest that I start?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of those younger folks who is just coming to know England through tidbits that get dropped here and there on the Bloggernacle.  I was not even a member of the Church yet when he died and am not personally acquainted with anyone who took a class from him.  If I wanted to learn more about England and his work, where and how would you all suggest that I start?</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin O</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12048</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12048</guid>
		<description>You know, as I read this, I thought about the difference between the pacifist movements in the BoM, and the very aggressive movement in the BoM lead by Helaman (and the Sons of Helaman).  One one hand you have a group who have vowed to never fight, and are strict pacifists.  People who believe that it is better to die than to fight.  On the other hand you have people who believe it is better to fight and protect the righteous.  

What we don&#039;t have is any record of strife between these groups, and I think that&#039;s what the real take away lesson of the scriptural segment there probably is for me.  Not that we &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; be pacifists or that we &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; be willing to fight, but that both choices are acceptable and that we &lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt; accept the choices of others to live according to one philosophy or the other.  Which, of course, leads to a greater peace in the land by not causing contention within the House of God, which is the first step in converting those who are unbelievers.  

I think if we want to spread peace to the world, we must stop fighting amongst ourselves about minor things and learn to accept that minor theological points are not a big deal, and that we really just need to move on.  Like I told my wife yesterday, I think the answer to a lot of the questions regarding church history may ultimately be: &quot;we don&#039;t know exactly why the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to do X or Y, and that&#039;s okay for now&quot;.  I can live with that for now.  I&#039;m learning more, and as I learn more, the ambiguity is lessened in some areas and strengthened in others, but I think learning to live with ambiguity is a major part of maturation in this life.  Just a personal point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, as I read this, I thought about the difference between the pacifist movements in the BoM, and the very aggressive movement in the BoM lead by Helaman (and the Sons of Helaman).  One one hand you have a group who have vowed to never fight, and are strict pacifists.  People who believe that it is better to die than to fight.  On the other hand you have people who believe it is better to fight and protect the righteous.  </p>
<p>What we don&#8217;t have is any record of strife between these groups, and I think that&#8217;s what the real take away lesson of the scriptural segment there probably is for me.  Not that we <i>must</i> be pacifists or that we <i>must</i> be willing to fight, but that both choices are acceptable and that we <b>must</b> accept the choices of others to live according to one philosophy or the other.  Which, of course, leads to a greater peace in the land by not causing contention within the House of God, which is the first step in converting those who are unbelievers.  </p>
<p>I think if we want to spread peace to the world, we must stop fighting amongst ourselves about minor things and learn to accept that minor theological points are not a big deal, and that we really just need to move on.  Like I told my wife yesterday, I think the answer to a lot of the questions regarding church history may ultimately be: &#8220;we don&#8217;t know exactly why the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to do X or Y, and that&#8217;s okay for now&#8221;.  I can live with that for now.  I&#8217;m learning more, and as I learn more, the ambiguity is lessened in some areas and strengthened in others, but I think learning to live with ambiguity is a major part of maturation in this life.  Just a personal point of view.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12032</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12032</guid>
		<description>Jody -- I appreciate your perspective.  I&#039;m not overstating the point when I say your Dad&#039;s writing fundamentally changed the way I see the Gospel and relate to the Church.  Certain passages from his &quot;Why the Church ...&quot; ring in my head nearly every week.  I&#039;d love to ask you a few more questions off-blog.  If you&#039;re up for it, please drop me a line at larsenshawn AT gmail DOT com.  I won&#039;t be a pest, I promise :)

John N. -- I agree that England is tragically underappreciated, although I&#039;m not quite sure why.  I think only time will tell whether his hopes for a shift in our culture take hold.  I do see some progress in the increasing willingness to take those of other faiths at face value, rather than trying to fit them into our own, Mormon box.  However, as Jaime&#039;s post about the pervasiveness of non-doctrinal norms shows, we still have a long way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jody &#8212; I appreciate your perspective.  I&#8217;m not overstating the point when I say your Dad&#8217;s writing fundamentally changed the way I see the Gospel and relate to the Church.  Certain passages from his &#8220;Why the Church &#8230;&#8221; ring in my head nearly every week.  I&#8217;d love to ask you a few more questions off-blog.  If you&#8217;re up for it, please drop me a line at larsenshawn AT gmail DOT com.  I won&#8217;t be a pest, I promise <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>John N. &#8212; I agree that England is tragically underappreciated, although I&#8217;m not quite sure why.  I think only time will tell whether his hopes for a shift in our culture take hold.  I do see some progress in the increasing willingness to take those of other faiths at face value, rather than trying to fit them into our own, Mormon box.  However, as Jaime&#8217;s post about the pervasiveness of non-doctrinal norms shows, we still have a long way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12011</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12011</guid>
		<description>I am one of the daughters who received this. I appreciate continuing to hear about the impact Dad&#039;s life and writings continue to have on the world. We have been and continue to work to prepare Dad&#039;s papers to be donated so others will have access. I think that will be the best way we can further Dad&#039;s efforts in building Mormon Studies programs, and well as continue his influence through his amazing example. 
I could go on forever in commenting on what kind of person he was, what kind of title he deserves, what kind of impact he had or should continue to have. Ultimately each person who is willing to know him or his writings, without making assumptions about where he belongs, or how he was accepted or not accepted, will have an opportunity of learning from him in a very individual way. It was one of the qualities he practiced in his life, to let each person he met get that they had something unique to offer to the world.
I feel honored that my experience with him covered my whole life. I, as one of his children, know that he was far from perfect and I appreciate his willingness to look at every opportunity to repent and forgive. I am very grateful he left so much of himself here in his writings and recordings. But the Eugene England I miss the most is my dad, my mom&#039;s husband and my children&#039;s grandpa. No matter what other impact he had on other people, those are the greatest things he did with his life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of the daughters who received this. I appreciate continuing to hear about the impact Dad&#8217;s life and writings continue to have on the world. We have been and continue to work to prepare Dad&#8217;s papers to be donated so others will have access. I think that will be the best way we can further Dad&#8217;s efforts in building Mormon Studies programs, and well as continue his influence through his amazing example.<br />
I could go on forever in commenting on what kind of person he was, what kind of title he deserves, what kind of impact he had or should continue to have. Ultimately each person who is willing to know him or his writings, without making assumptions about where he belongs, or how he was accepted or not accepted, will have an opportunity of learning from him in a very individual way. It was one of the qualities he practiced in his life, to let each person he met get that they had something unique to offer to the world.<br />
I feel honored that my experience with him covered my whole life. I, as one of his children, know that he was far from perfect and I appreciate his willingness to look at every opportunity to repent and forgive. I am very grateful he left so much of himself here in his writings and recordings. But the Eugene England I miss the most is my dad, my mom&#8217;s husband and my children&#8217;s grandpa. No matter what other impact he had on other people, those are the greatest things he did with his life.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-12000</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-12000</guid>
		<description>Nicole, thanks for the kind words.  In or out of the Church (or somewhere in between), you are always welcome here :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicole, thanks for the kind words.  In or out of the Church (or somewhere in between), you are always welcome here <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nicole Gharda</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11996</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole Gharda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11996</guid>
		<description>Dear Shawn,

I sent this on to some of Gene&#039;s daughters, my aunt one of them, because I think it was a nice reminder of Gene&#039;s impact on so many people in such important ways. I also appreciated the reminder of some of the ways he helped me find my own voice, although THIS voice DID do what you feared Gene&#039;s would: that is, talked herself out of the church. But you are right-- it is the memory of his voice that sometimes manages to tug at my heart and remind me that the church needs strong people like you to expose a rather insular culture to views that are actually more harmonious with Christ&#039;s than some of the more popular trappings of conservative Mormon culture. Thanks for the reminder of a man who I do miss greatly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Shawn,</p>
<p>I sent this on to some of Gene&#8217;s daughters, my aunt one of them, because I think it was a nice reminder of Gene&#8217;s impact on so many people in such important ways. I also appreciated the reminder of some of the ways he helped me find my own voice, although THIS voice DID do what you feared Gene&#8217;s would: that is, talked herself out of the church. But you are right&#8211; it is the memory of his voice that sometimes manages to tug at my heart and remind me that the church needs strong people like you to expose a rather insular culture to views that are actually more harmonious with Christ&#8217;s than some of the more popular trappings of conservative Mormon culture. Thanks for the reminder of a man who I do miss greatly.</p>
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		<title>By: John Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11994</link>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11994</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the good news, Christopher!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the good news, Christopher!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11984</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11984</guid>
		<description>There is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uvsc.edu/phil/religiousstudies/england.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lecture series&lt;/a&gt; named in his honor at UVU.  Not quite a chair, but its something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a <a href="http://www.uvsc.edu/phil/religiousstudies/england.html" rel="nofollow">lecture series</a> named in his honor at UVU.  Not quite a chair, but its something.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11977</link>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11977</guid>
		<description>Shawn, 

I miss Gene too.  I never took one of his classes, but I met him at Sunstone and he was very gracious in responding to questions.  

I think he is underappreciated and less well known than his mentor. Lowell Bennion has a prominent service center at the University of Utah named after him, but England has nothing of the same type yet to my knowledge.  UVU at least should name a chair after him after the work he did trying to get their Mormon Studies program off the ground.

While I agree with you that he provided wonderful ways of being Mormon and taking peace seriously as part of our religion, considering how he and others, like Bennion, were treated by the institution, would you say he was right about the chances for cultural change in Mormonism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shawn, </p>
<p>I miss Gene too.  I never took one of his classes, but I met him at Sunstone and he was very gracious in responding to questions.  </p>
<p>I think he is underappreciated and less well known than his mentor. Lowell Bennion has a prominent service center at the University of Utah named after him, but England has nothing of the same type yet to my knowledge.  UVU at least should name a chair after him after the work he did trying to get their Mormon Studies program off the ground.</p>
<p>While I agree with you that he provided wonderful ways of being Mormon and taking peace seriously as part of our religion, considering how he and others, like Bennion, were treated by the institution, would you say he was right about the chances for cultural change in Mormonism?</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11974</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11974</guid>
		<description>Christopher -- you raise fair points, which I will attempt to address in order.  

1.  Any defintion of &quot;Mormon Studies&quot; is problematic, your post suggests.  Perhaps &quot;New Mormon History&quot; would be more precise, but England was not foremost a historian.  The term was meant to be inclusory, as opposed to exclusionary.  I certainly did not suggest, and do not believe, that Mormon Studies is concerned only (or even mainly) with &quot;obscure questions&quot;.    

2.  You&#039;re right -- England would be the first to point out that he (any many others) studied at the feet of Lowell Bennion.  Just as I wrote this post in hopes reminding folks of England&#039;s work, England was a tireless promoter of Bennion&#039;s work.  I meant no slight to Bennion.  For me, however, England has been a more impactful figure.  Perhaps this is a generational issue, I don&#039;t know.  That said, England was more than simply a puppet of Bennion&#039;s ideas.  His ideas has come into their own, and his is the name I see and hear more often in publications/lectures/symposia these days than Bennion.  

3.  I think you misunderstood my use of the word &quot;head.&quot;  As I thought was clear from the post, I didn&#039;t mean that Quinn and Compton are &quot;leaders&quot;; rather, I used them as representing the &quot;brains&quot; or factfinding/research-oriented wing of the MS crowd.  Certainly, they are two among a long list of qualified individuals.  Yes, I&#039;m aware of Arrington, Davis and that ilk.  But the point of the post was not to give a comprehensive list of Mormon researchers, only to give context for a discussion of England&#039;s thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher &#8212; you raise fair points, which I will attempt to address in order.  </p>
<p>1.  Any defintion of &#8220;Mormon Studies&#8221; is problematic, your post suggests.  Perhaps &#8220;New Mormon History&#8221; would be more precise, but England was not foremost a historian.  The term was meant to be inclusory, as opposed to exclusionary.  I certainly did not suggest, and do not believe, that Mormon Studies is concerned only (or even mainly) with &#8220;obscure questions&#8221;.    </p>
<p>2.  You&#8217;re right &#8212; England would be the first to point out that he (any many others) studied at the feet of Lowell Bennion.  Just as I wrote this post in hopes reminding folks of England&#8217;s work, England was a tireless promoter of Bennion&#8217;s work.  I meant no slight to Bennion.  For me, however, England has been a more impactful figure.  Perhaps this is a generational issue, I don&#8217;t know.  That said, England was more than simply a puppet of Bennion&#8217;s ideas.  His ideas has come into their own, and his is the name I see and hear more often in publications/lectures/symposia these days than Bennion.  </p>
<p>3.  I think you misunderstood my use of the word &#8220;head.&#8221;  As I thought was clear from the post, I didn&#8217;t mean that Quinn and Compton are &#8220;leaders&#8221;; rather, I used them as representing the &#8220;brains&#8221; or factfinding/research-oriented wing of the MS crowd.  Certainly, they are two among a long list of qualified individuals.  Yes, I&#8217;m aware of Arrington, Davis and that ilk.  But the point of the post was not to give a comprehensive list of Mormon researchers, only to give context for a discussion of England&#8217;s thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11973</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11973</guid>
		<description>While I certainly agree that Gene England&#039;s thought and life remain very relevant today, I think you overstate your case in calling him the &lt;em&gt;heart&lt;/em&gt; of the Mormon Studies movement. It seems you&#039;ve equated &quot;Mormon Studies&quot; with the Mormon Sunstone/Dialogue intellectual community (which seems problematic and innacurate).  And even if we narrow England&#039;s legacy within that crowd, I don&#039;t think he&#039;s the &quot;heart&quot; of it. That honor, as England would be the first to point out, probably belongs to Lowell Bennion, who was addressing what it means to be a Christian, how to effectively apply the gospel to our lives, why war is wrong, and racial and class tolerance and respect 20 years before England even stepped foot on the scene.

In addition, Michael Quinn and Todd Compton (who are probably appropriately labeled part of the Mormon Studies crowd) are far from &quot;the head&quot; of that movement.  Not only were there predecessors long before those two (think Arrington and Bitton), but Quinn and Compton aren&#039;t unique, either, in their desire or their ability to unearth previously unknown historical tidbits. Besides, Mormon Studies as a movement is less interested in the obscure questions you suggest, and much more interested in addressing questions like &quot;why is Mormon history relevant to larger historical issues?&quot; and &quot;what does the study of Mormonism--both contemporary and historical--tell us about the human experience?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I certainly agree that Gene England&#8217;s thought and life remain very relevant today, I think you overstate your case in calling him the <em>heart</em> of the Mormon Studies movement. It seems you&#8217;ve equated &#8220;Mormon Studies&#8221; with the Mormon Sunstone/Dialogue intellectual community (which seems problematic and innacurate).  And even if we narrow England&#8217;s legacy within that crowd, I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s the &#8220;heart&#8221; of it. That honor, as England would be the first to point out, probably belongs to Lowell Bennion, who was addressing what it means to be a Christian, how to effectively apply the gospel to our lives, why war is wrong, and racial and class tolerance and respect 20 years before England even stepped foot on the scene.</p>
<p>In addition, Michael Quinn and Todd Compton (who are probably appropriately labeled part of the Mormon Studies crowd) are far from &#8220;the head&#8221; of that movement.  Not only were there predecessors long before those two (think Arrington and Bitton), but Quinn and Compton aren&#8217;t unique, either, in their desire or their ability to unearth previously unknown historical tidbits. Besides, Mormon Studies as a movement is less interested in the obscure questions you suggest, and much more interested in addressing questions like &#8220;why is Mormon history relevant to larger historical issues?&#8221; and &#8220;what does the study of Mormonism&#8211;both contemporary and historical&#8211;tell us about the human experience?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11972</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11972</guid>
		<description>Matt -- I&#039;m not aware of a biography.  The only upcoming England I&#039;ve heard of is the &quot;Reader&#039;s Edition of the Book of Mormon&quot; done by him and Robert Rees.  I second the notion that a good biography is sorely needed.
I also agree with your assesment of England&#039;s position.  One thing I find endearing about his work is, underneath all of his criticisms, is a true affection for Mormonism.  And not just as a &quot;cultural Mormon&quot; and &quot;social Mormon.&quot;  He wore the workers&#039; seal proudly.  As I read his stuff, he was very much against the idea of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  That&#039;s what makes him special in my eyes -- so many folks get frustrated, throw up their hands, and leave.  England took the harder road; he stuck around to try and make things better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt &#8212; I&#8217;m not aware of a biography.  The only upcoming England I&#8217;ve heard of is the &#8220;Reader&#8217;s Edition of the Book of Mormon&#8221; done by him and Robert Rees.  I second the notion that a good biography is sorely needed.<br />
I also agree with your assesment of England&#8217;s position.  One thing I find endearing about his work is, underneath all of his criticisms, is a true affection for Mormonism.  And not just as a &#8220;cultural Mormon&#8221; and &#8220;social Mormon.&#8221;  He wore the workers&#8217; seal proudly.  As I read his stuff, he was very much against the idea of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  That&#8217;s what makes him special in my eyes &#8212; so many folks get frustrated, throw up their hands, and leave.  England took the harder road; he stuck around to try and make things better.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11970</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11970</guid>
		<description>&quot;And equating the American Democratic party with pacifism is preposterous.&quot;

I did no such thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And equating the American Democratic party with pacifism is preposterous.&#8221;</p>
<p>I did no such thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jungleface Jake</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/09/why-eugene-england-still-matters/#comment-11969</link>
		<dc:creator>Jungleface Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=388#comment-11969</guid>
		<description>&#039;I think the comments posted by some commenters on the threads here at MM likewise contained some examples of the mindset England urged us to avoid...&#039;

It seems like it would have been more charitable to use your own site as an example. Bad form.

And equating the American Democratic party with pacifism is preposterous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;I think the comments posted by some commenters on the threads here at MM likewise contained some examples of the mindset England urged us to avoid&#8230;&#8217;</p>
<p>It seems like it would have been more charitable to use your own site as an example. Bad form.</p>
<p>And equating the American Democratic party with pacifism is preposterous.</p>
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