Comments on: Shouldn’t This Be Against the Honor Code?

By: Greg

Greg — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:52:20 +0000

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By: led tvs

led tvs — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:13:20 +0000

Hey, great post, really well written. You should write more about this. I’ll certainly be subscribing.

By: Velska

Velska — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:25:38 +0000

Sports and civility just don’t mix. A missionary companion I had was a U of U student (I am European-educated) and he admitted his shame about coming out to the field (I think it was volley ball, but that’s irrelevant) in a game against BYU in a Y arena, flipping a double birdie to the Y fans. (This happened in the late 1970s so you won’t have it on YouTube.)

I also remember when I was a kid that we would fight with the fans of the visiting hockey teams. Then I grew up and got religion. Haven’t followed sports in almost 30 years because of how awful I feel about fan behavior.

By: Ren

Ren — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:27:13 +0000

I believe it harsh to not call this offensive. I mean it makes me think twice about the kind of school that BYU is… to allow such hatred towards American Indians in a sporting event of all things.
I am a American Indian and a Ute at that… and wow.. what a slap to the face… I mean first off… just the mere fact that the Northern Utes allow our tribal name to be used in such a way is more than a slap to the face…when in fact they know of the hatred between the mormons and the native americans… and still allow BYUs rival school to continue with the nick of the “running utes”
So some you may find this funny or just push it aside… put yourself in our shoes for one day and you know why we would are angry.

By: I went back the rez

I went back the rez — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:28:15 +0000

On April 17th “Tyler” made the comment – “The University of Utah is not a church owned university.” However, the “U” was founded by Brigham Young himself. The original name was “University of Deseret” but because the U of D loss money the school was shut down. Today, many of the U’s faculty, staff and students are members of “the church”. Many church members participate and pay big bucks to be a part of the “holy war”. In a way, “the church” owns the University of Utah.

I want to take that lady holding the sign and her friends surrounding her to go back to the reservation with me. Let them meet the people. Have them participate in early morning pray runs, preparing the fields for planting of seeds, pulling weeds in the fields, hauling water, chopping wood, making bread, hunting, preparing the meat, preparing the harvest, blessing the land, food and water. And eating the food, helping our elders, listening to the creation stories. What does it mean to be native? What does it mean to be Ute?

These people have no clue whatsoever!

By: Tiffany S. Menard

Tiffany S. Menard — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:07:52 +0000

I am a Native American, recent graduate of the U, and the person who wrote the petition mentioned above. I think an apology is due from BYU for this behavior and as far as training fans on cultural sensitivity “how about adding a cultural fact on a sports program when it is relavent or reiterating the Honor Code and respect of others in the BYU Newspaper prior to a game?”, these would be economical training and also serve an educational purpose.

I also do not support the U’s being called the Utes but that is another story all together. I will say that I have never purchased a peice of clothing from the U that had the name Ute on it or the drum and feather emblem.

By: Tyler

Tyler — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:16:20 +0000

Zenaida:
I have no problem discussing the issue, as I said in my comment I think the issue to which you refer is an important one. I agree with your stance on it as well. My only point is that it is unrelated to the subject at hand (see post title). I would love to discuss the issue, but I don’t see how it specifically relates to “Mormon Matters.” The University of Utah is not a church-owned university.

By: wren

wren — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:10:52 +0000

I’ll blame these girls’ lack of class and blatant ignorance on their insulated upbringing. Right up there with the return missionary talk I heard in which the elder referred to an African American, who used to hassle him and his companion, as “a porch monkey”. I wanted to crawl under the pew and out the door. No one around me even raise an eyebrow. HELLO

By: Flamin' Mane

Flamin' Mane — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:36:18 +0000

I am an alumnist of the University of Utah and received a degree in Anthropology. When considering which school to attend before transferring from a community college, BYU was considered. I left the academic advisory office in Provo with a strange feeling that BYU saw themselves as a superior educational institution who required a high level of intelligence from perspective students as a prerequisite to attending the school. These expectations are fine, but it was the premise upon which they made these claims that bothered me (the whole “god is on our side” thing), but this is a discussion for another time. When I first saw these pictures I could not help thinking back to this meeting and the intelligence prerequisite and today seeing this intelligence manifesting its self so proudly, one can only laugh and shake his/her head with a sense of irony.

Of course none of this really matters, but it is an interesting experience!

By: FooboyX

FooboyX — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:17:11 +0000

In the interest of full disclosure, I went to school, full ride, on a hazing scholarship.

By: Derek P. Moore

Derek P. Moore — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:11:48 +0000

Kendall Smith :—

“Haun’s Mill II–you’re going to lose this one too”

Hahaha! That’s hilarious. If BYU ever plays the UMKC Roos, I’m totally bringing that sign!

Hey, BYU! I think I found all of your 10-foot-poles!

You guys are Mormons: you should know that the University of Missouri will always be better than BYU!

By: Derek P. Moore

Derek P. Moore — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:02:33 +0000

No wonder Utah is the most depressed state in the world. Get a life!

By: Zenaida

Zenaida — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:31:25 +0000

‘I agree about the whole mascot issue, I think it is tangential at best and suitable for a secular blog. The issue at hand is the behavior of those who attend what many of them regard as “The Lord’s University.”’

I think it is this kind of unwillingness to discuss issues beyond our own noses that gives people, both inside and outside of the faith, the wrong impression about what our church is all about. This kind of forum should be open to discussing matters of culture to gain understanding rather than ignoring what is around us, or perhaps I mistakenly wandered into a Sunday School lesson…

By: FooboyX

FooboyX — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:46:34 +0000

Organized sports brings out the worst in everyone, and unfortunately here in the fishbowl we tend to heap praise, worship, and positive religious attributes on people who can throw a football or dribble better than others, regardless of their behavior or testimony. It gets even sillier when the two unofficial centers of religious philosophy and lifestyle in this state compete for sports DOMINANCE (said with a deep announcer voice) year after year, after year, after silly year.

In the words of a wise man “two craps will never make soap” and so it is with BYU and U of U sports.

By: Neal Kramer

Neal Kramer — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:20:46 +0000

Apparently most of you have not heard that BYU has in fact emphasized better sportsmanship as part of the effort to clean up various athletic programs. And this has worked to some degree. The program has done a better job of treating guests with respect, including the folks up at the U. The University of Utah has responded very nicely in kind.

Unfortunately, there are still students who have no sense of what civility actually means. I must say, however, that if anything were to be done about such insensitivity in terms of the honor code, it would be a private matter and would not even make it into the press.

As I said, I’ve been very impressed with both Utah and BYU fans at all events this year, regardless of the victors. The bloggers continue to be the worst, because they do not have to identify themselves.

Apparently there is a mythical Utah fan out there with a third grade education, forty extra pounds of tummy, and alcohol breath who just cannot control his impulses to push old ladies and scream obscenities during games. At the same events there is also a mythical BYU fan whose appearance is shiny and happy, who informs others around him that they are not shiny and happy, which is especially creepy when your team is losing, and before long your eternal salvation is connected either losing to BYU or beating them call.

Both of these mythical fans go to Utah Jazz games as well and are seen as the primary reason why the Jazz have the best home record in the NBA.

By: FooboyX

FooboyX — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:51:05 +0000

kwk…where is here?

By: Tyler

Tyler — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:41:26 +0000

#26 – I think the aforementioned petition (see #21) would have been appropriate. I’m not talking extreme or drastic measures here, but a written apology from the girl (as required by the university) would seem adequate to me.

By: Ray

Ray — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:22:26 +0000

#24 – What would you suggest as appropriate?

By: Tyler

Tyler — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:17:50 +0000

Oops, should say “While I agree about the mascot issue…”

By: Tyler

Tyler — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:16:45 +0000

Jonathan Mahoney #11: I assume I speak for most when I say that it is in no way funny. It shows a complete lack of maturity (and intelligence, judgment, class, etc) and would only appeal to like-minded individuals.

Green Mormon #20: I agree about the whole mascot issue, I think it is tangential at best and suitable for a secular blog. The issue at hand is the behavior of those who attend what many of them regard as “The Lord’s University.”

The honor code is ridiculous in and of itself, but allowing this behavior to continue without any sort of discipline to the student is even more perplexing.

By: Mike L.

Mike L. — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:19:43 +0000

#21: Asking BYU to apologize and start a training program because of 1 fan? I’d sign the petition if it asked for this student to apologize. BYU is not responsible for individual behavior. If it were an ongoing problem, then I’d see your point.

By: Mike L.

Mike L. — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:13:58 +0000

Not everything that is wrong is against the honor code (although I think this probably is). Nor is it the job of the honor code office to investigate every instance of un-Christlike behavior. The honor code does not replace the gospel.

And I remember when I was at BYU there was a lot of effort made by the administration to encourage sports fans to be good sports, but certainly it would be impossible to investigate every instance of offensive behavior.

By: John Nilsson

John Nilsson — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:15:30 +0000

FYI-These pictures were on display at the rededication of the U of U’s American Indian Resource Center,along with a petition to the BYU administration to issue an apology on behalf of the woman in question and to call for sensitivity training for their fans. Several deans and vice-presidents present signed, as did I. Most of the signers represented a cross-section of tribes.

Carlos,

I couldn’t agree more. There was a scripture about straining at gnats and swallowing camels somewhere…

Green Mormon Architect,

Good point.

By: green mormon architect

green mormon architect — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:58:30 +0000

These signs are inappropriate, but what is worse? This girl and her sign, or the ‘Utes’ for having an Indian tribe represent their sports program? Let’s all paint our bodies red and cheer for our team (see picture at http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,590040138,00.html) If we wouldn’t have killed off all the Indians and put the remaining few on reservations, they would probably object to this behavior. What if a white school in the South painted themselves black and were the Creoles? Could you imagine something like the LSU Creoles? Just because the NCAA allows Utah to do this, and what’s left of the tribe doesn’t object – is it the right thing to do?

By: Stephen Wellington

Stephen Wellington — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:43:08 +0000

Is this BYU’s equivalent of the football hooliganism we get in England?