kinda makes you wonder….

an interesting take on a interesting topic….

What is interesting to me is that people (not just members of the Church) are always surprised when the learn the real story behind historical events. Whether it is Church history, national history or personal history, they can’t seem to realize that everyone “sugarcoats” their history until someone really digs and learns “the rest of the story.”

I was turned on to a more honest side of US history in the 8th grade and I have questioned it ever since. No organization is really immune from stressing the positive, downplaying the negative (or perceived negative), not even the Church.

What is in the Kool-Aid these days? Is there anyone who is able to answer THAT question?

I’m done. This has turned personal, and I won’t engage further.

I won’t mock the spiritual, if you provide something spiritual for us to talk about.

“You ask if I have implored God and received a personal witness. Yes, I have. One of the strongest spiritual impressions of my life (and I have had some very strong ones), came as I served in a Stake Mission Presidency in the Deep South **after the revelation lifting the ban** – as I struggled with how to reach into the Black community and was allowed to see the continuing effects of racism on the Church where I lived (both within a small minority of members and a much larger percent of non-members, Black and White). I will never forget that impression and the lessons it taught me. I will never forget how that vision changed dramatically how I perceived this issue.

This is not an intellectual understanding for me. It is deeply spiritual one – forged over multiple decades of observing and studying the roots and continuing traces of bigotry in this country and, unfortunately, the Church.

At the most basic level, I return to my first paragraph. Due to my calling at the time, I believe I was given a perspective that is somewhat unique. It was burned into my soul in a way that I can neither forget nor deny. I cannot say I saw the Father crying for the hardness of the hearts of His children, but I can say that I understand that image in a way that would have been impossible without that experience. It has shaped the way I see many things over the years, and I would not trade it for the world.”

Adam E., You think that’s funny? You know there are a huge number of conservative members who have that attitude about homosexuals for real. Don’t you?

“Don’t think it will happen? Chew in this: D. Todd Christofferson, the newest prophet, seer, and revelator, who might someday be the president of the church, has a brother who is gay and they are reported to be on very good terms.”

On good terms with a homosexual? No! I’m aghast! I revoke my sustaining!

As for what this thread is about, the question was asked, “What practices or behaviors do we now consider commonplace that will be embarrassing, appalling, or otherwise disconcerting to 22nd century Mormons?” Which I answered. If anyone thinks the gay members of the church are going to allow the board of directors of the corp. of the pres. to push the nose of the camel back out of the tent, think again. I hope it does happen in my lifetime so I am able to say, “I told you so.”

Our disagreement isn’t that the prophets no longer say, “Thus sayeth the Lord”, but whether or not it actually is the word of God when they do. **That’s not relevant to this thread, so I won’t debate it here.** I’m fine with that; let’s just be clear about it, which was my point in my response.

I believe these pronouncements ACTUALLY have to come from God. Don’t you even know the history and circumstances behind the priesthood ban/policy (whatever)? A little research will “reveal” that the repeal of the ban was nothing more than a bunch of church administrators caving to outside pressure to change a vile and discriminatory church policy with a little prayer thrown in.

U.S. Government got it right long before the corporation of the president. Or maybe you would like to quote prophet, seer, and revelator ETB or BRM on the subject of the human rights act?

You’re kidding, right? Just because the exact wording isn’t the same doesn’t mean the message (“The Lord said this.”) isn’t the same.

In my lifetime, the lifting of the Priesthood Ban and The Proclamation to the World are “official” examples of “Thus sayeth the Lord.” Also, I could pull up the talks of any General Conference in my lifetime and show you example after example of statements that have been given with the understanding that “the Lord told me . . .”

Do you really believe it has to be that exact wording to qualify as prophetic pronouncement of what the Lord has said to them?

“…and putting “reveal” in quotation marks is condescending” When was the last time a president, prophet (whatever) of the corporation of the president ever gave the world a “Thus saith the Lord” revelation? Not in any current lifetime.

Do I think it will happen as you believe? I’m not sure, but I would be surprised if it happens in my lifetime. All “God Loveth His Children” did was to lift homosexual inclinations and activity to the same level of heterosexual, extra-marital inclinations and activity – a VERY important and overdue move, imo, but no sign of eventual support for gay temple marriage.

Any thoughts, Nick?

How sadly mistaken you are. The nose of the camel is already in the tent. (See “God Loveth His Children” on LDS.org) At some future date, gay marriage WILL BE upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court and homosexual members will put pressure on the church to allow them the same blessings of intimacy that heterosexual couples enjoy within the bounds of marriage. The church will be powerless to forbid it. This pressure will be punctuated by the “God Loveth His Children” message that homosexuality is not a choice (courtesy of Elder Oaks).

Buckle up because here’s the punchline. Since the church has taken the position that some people experience homosexual attraction that they don’t choose to have, there is no way to deny that those attractions are not on par with heterosexual attraction. (Is heterosexual attration a choice?) Therefore the church will have to acquiesce to their pressure and eventually “reveal” that homosexuals may be married/sealed for all time and eternity IN THE TEMPLE.

Don’t think it will happen? Chew in this: D. Todd Christofferson, the newest prophet, seer, and revelator, who might someday be the president of the church, has a brother who is gay and they are reported to be on very good terms.

Ohhh..

the bull,

They don’t stop talking about it, just run out of time in general conference.

The needs are also different and change year after year.

We did take shifts sleeping, though, so production was nearly continuous (at least on day 2 when the filming was in the can)

I am also pretty impressed that anyone could make this film in a mere 48 hours. I assume there had to be some reviving with Vivarin.

what do you mean by ‘peccadillo of mine’ -a sin against the WoW I guess? Never heard the use of ‘picadillo’; why I ask.

Ray:

I’d second your ‘blogging’. But then maybe we will be video blogging by then.

Stephen,

Homosexuality? Nup, will never happen. Only if they also accept adultery as a non-sin or the big M as a no-sin…..etc