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	<title>Comments on: A California Mormon visits the other Zion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/</link>
	<description>Exploring Mormon culture in a balanced way</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
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		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-15492</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 04:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-15492</guid>
		<description>Excellent review.  The Community of Christ has impressed me for years, and I envy the experience you had visiting different branches of the LDS movement in the Independence area.  I heard about this conference only about a month before it was to be held.  I'm sorry I missed it, and wondered about the audio recordings you mentioned.  Do you know if they'll be available for sale online?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent review.  The Community of Christ has impressed me for years, and I envy the experience you had visiting different branches of the LDS movement in the Independence area.  I heard about this conference only about a month before it was to be held.  I&#8217;m sorry I missed it, and wondered about the audio recordings you mentioned.  Do you know if they&#8217;ll be available for sale online?</p>
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		<title>By: john f.</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-14089</link>
		<dc:creator>john f.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-14089</guid>
		<description>What conference was this?  It sounds like it was a fun and exciting trip!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What conference was this?  It sounds like it was a fun and exciting trip!</p>
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		<title>By: Derek P. Moore</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-13019</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek P. Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-13019</guid>
		<description>typo #15:  they were overly proud and self-righteous  ==  they weren't overly proud and self-righteous</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>typo #15:  they were overly proud and self-righteous  ==  they weren&#8217;t overly proud and self-righteous</p>
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		<title>By: Derek P. Moore</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-13018</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek P. Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-13018</guid>
		<description>Joe &#38; Rigel :—

I have attended a Community of Christ service at the Stone Church near the temple mount:

http://www.stone-church.org/

Stone Church is very cool!  Never before have I seen such beautiful stained glass of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, and Mesoamerican pyramids, etc.  It was awesome to see Mormon-themed stained glass windows.

Their services are very much like a traditional Christian service.  They are quite different from LDS services.  There is usually a minister that has prepared a sermon, there ministers even go so far as to use the rolling voice and shouts of revival evangelists.  They have their own hymnal, which has some traditional Mormon tunes as well as some of their own stuff and/or standard Christian tunes.  They partake communion once a month or once a quarter (I forget which).

When I went I met one of their Quorum of the Seventy, he gave a very nice sermon about how their churches have been able to improve and organize within the worse-off neighbors of Independence (once called the meth capital of the world by Rolling Stone), and how they need to focus more on helping the needy and unchurched, etc.

I was a little disappointed that their meetings were so much like non-denomination services.  I was hoping for something more akin to the Mormon services I'm familiar with, and I would guess that they have occasional testimony meetings or member speakers, like we do.  But the day I went it was very much like a mainstream worship service.

They have Scripture study and whatnot during the week, like we used to before everything was consolidated into 3 hours on Sunday.  All in all, I had a good time at their service, the congregants were very "real" -- they were overly proud and self-righteous like us Mormons tend to be, and there wasn't as much "fine apparel" as there is in our churches.  I was happy to worship with fellow WT, even if I was somewhat overdressed.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &amp; Rigel :—</p>
<p>I have attended a Community of Christ service at the Stone Church near the temple mount:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stone-church.org/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.stone-church.org/');" rel="nofollow">http://www.stone-church.org/</a></p>
<p>Stone Church is very cool!  Never before have I seen such beautiful stained glass of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, and Mesoamerican pyramids, etc.  It was awesome to see Mormon-themed stained glass windows.</p>
<p>Their services are very much like a traditional Christian service.  They are quite different from LDS services.  There is usually a minister that has prepared a sermon, there ministers even go so far as to use the rolling voice and shouts of revival evangelists.  They have their own hymnal, which has some traditional Mormon tunes as well as some of their own stuff and/or standard Christian tunes.  They partake communion once a month or once a quarter (I forget which).</p>
<p>When I went I met one of their Quorum of the Seventy, he gave a very nice sermon about how their churches have been able to improve and organize within the worse-off neighbors of Independence (once called the meth capital of the world by Rolling Stone), and how they need to focus more on helping the needy and unchurched, etc.</p>
<p>I was a little disappointed that their meetings were so much like non-denomination services.  I was hoping for something more akin to the Mormon services I&#8217;m familiar with, and I would guess that they have occasional testimony meetings or member speakers, like we do.  But the day I went it was very much like a mainstream worship service.</p>
<p>They have Scripture study and whatnot during the week, like we used to before everything was consolidated into 3 hours on Sunday.  All in all, I had a good time at their service, the congregants were very &#8220;real&#8221; &#8212; they were overly proud and self-righteous like us Mormons tend to be, and there wasn&#8217;t as much &#8220;fine apparel&#8221; as there is in our churches.  I was happy to worship with fellow WT, even if I was somewhat overdressed.  <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Joe Geisner</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12998</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Geisner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12998</guid>
		<description>Thank you John and Mormon Matters for allowing me to post. One of the comments I continually heard was how nice a conference this was and that it was the first conference. This says quite a bit about the effort and time Mike and you put into making this a successful conference. 

Zionssuburb, I am very glad we met, one of the best parts about the conference was meeting new people.

I am grateful that John has stepped in and gave a travel guide. I can only add one comment and that is DO NOT MISS The Community of Christ Museum. It is first rate and many of the artifact treasures I mention can be found there.

Rigel, as for attending church, I really can't help. I grew up Utah Mormon and continue to attend church at a Utah Mormon ward, I have never attended a Community of Christ branch (their ward). I plan on attending one of their services because of my experience in Independence. Maybe we can share notes after doing this.

Derek, you are correct, it seems every Restoration branch wants to be in Independence since it is Joseph's Zion. I did a search of the Journal of Discourses and it is quite amazing the desire of the Utah saints to be in Independence and get the temple built. If one really wants to hear an amazing Utah Mormon talk about packing your bags and headin' to Missouri take a listen to Alvin Dyer's talk "Establishing the Cities of Zion". It can be found on the BYU devotional website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you John and Mormon Matters for allowing me to post. One of the comments I continually heard was how nice a conference this was and that it was the first conference. This says quite a bit about the effort and time Mike and you put into making this a successful conference. </p>
<p>Zionssuburb, I am very glad we met, one of the best parts about the conference was meeting new people.</p>
<p>I am grateful that John has stepped in and gave a travel guide. I can only add one comment and that is DO NOT MISS The Community of Christ Museum. It is first rate and many of the artifact treasures I mention can be found there.</p>
<p>Rigel, as for attending church, I really can&#8217;t help. I grew up Utah Mormon and continue to attend church at a Utah Mormon ward, I have never attended a Community of Christ branch (their ward). I plan on attending one of their services because of my experience in Independence. Maybe we can share notes after doing this.</p>
<p>Derek, you are correct, it seems every Restoration branch wants to be in Independence since it is Joseph&#8217;s Zion. I did a search of the Journal of Discourses and it is quite amazing the desire of the Utah saints to be in Independence and get the temple built. If one really wants to hear an amazing Utah Mormon talk about packing your bags and headin&#8217; to Missouri take a listen to Alvin Dyer&#8217;s talk &#8220;Establishing the Cities of Zion&#8221;. It can be found on the BYU devotional website.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hamer</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12976</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12976</guid>
		<description>Joe ---

Thanks for the great write up.  I'm so glad you had a memorable experience.  I had a great time too.  I loved being able to meet and visit with you in person.  Even though it was rushed, it was a fun dinner.

--- John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &#8212;</p>
<p>Thanks for the great write up.  I&#8217;m so glad you had a memorable experience.  I had a great time too.  I loved being able to meet and visit with you in person.  Even though it was rushed, it was a fun dinner.</p>
<p>&#8212; John</p>
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		<title>By: John Hamer</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12975</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12975</guid>
		<description>Peter ---

If you want to see it all, here are the directions.  Go east on Interstate-70 from Utah to Independence, MO.  The Temple Lot is at 200 S. River Blvd.  Once you're there you can easily see the Community of Christ Temple (1001 West Walnut St.) and the Auditorium and the LDS Visitor Center.  (This LDS Visitor Center is skippable, because I'm going to send you to two more and they don't have much at this one.)  The Remnant Church HQ is across Lexington from the temple at 700 West Lexington Ave.  The Cutlerite Church is just a few blocks south of the temple lot at 807 S. Cottage St.  There are lots and lots of other Restoration related churches in Independence, but that should be plenty.

While you're in Zion, remember that it is one of the BBQ capitals of the world.  Eat at Gates BBQ (a local chain) 10440 East 40 Highway in Independence.  Your kids will make a mess, but you shouldn't miss the experience.

Next, take 291 Highway north to Liberty.  The reconstructed Liberty Jail (216 N. Main St., Liberty, MO) is inside of an LDS Visitor Center, which you should visit.  Take Interstate 35 north to Far West.  The Temple Site is owned by the LDS church and has the corner stones.  At Exit 48, take County Road HH east, turn left onto County Road D.  The temple site is at the corner of D and NW Far West Dr.  If you want to goto Haun's Mill site, it's very remote and there's nothing much there at present.  Take Far West Dr. east to Highway 13, turn left (north).  Take 13 to County Road U. Keep going until the road ends, turn right (south) on Catawba Rd.  Before you get to the Shoal Creek bridge, turn right (west) onto a dirt road and the site is less than a mile off that road.

Adam-ondi-Ahman also has nothing there except a few plaques and a lot of fences, but people like to go.  If you're back to Interstate 35 going north, it's at Exit 72 and there are many big signs leading you there.  Interstate 35 takes you north to Lamoni, Iowa (Exit 4), which is the location of Graceland University (the Community of Christ version of BYU).  Joseph Smith III's home (Liberty Hall, 1138 W. Main St.) is open for tours.

Nauvoo isn't an interstate destination, but there are very reasonable roads to get there.  If you're up in Lamoni, you can take US 34 east to Illinois and then you can take the river road south to Nauvoo.  We've taken Iowa highway 2 east from Lamoni to Nauvoo and that was a nice drive.  In either case, as you're in the Iowa countryside, you're in the general vicinity of the Mormon trail.  Nauvoo is great and you ought to spend 2 days there to see it.  The LDS church sites include all sorts of pioneer era reenactments for kids (making bricks, newspapers, candles, etc.)  If you have ancestors in Nauvoo, go to the LDS records office and find out where they lived.  Community of Christ's sites make you take the tour, but you should go because they have all the Smith family property, from Joseph and Emma's homes to their graves.  Carthage Jail is just east of Nauvoo and there are signs.

Take Interstate 80 back to Utah, so that you can visit Council Bluffs/Omaha.  There's a reconstructed Kanesville Tabernacle (where Brigham Young reorganized the LDS church in 1847) and an LDS temple and Visitor Center in Winter Quarters (at the north edge of Omaha).

And there you have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8212;</p>
<p>If you want to see it all, here are the directions.  Go east on Interstate-70 from Utah to Independence, MO.  The Temple Lot is at 200 S. River Blvd.  Once you&#8217;re there you can easily see the Community of Christ Temple (1001 West Walnut St.) and the Auditorium and the LDS Visitor Center.  (This LDS Visitor Center is skippable, because I&#8217;m going to send you to two more and they don&#8217;t have much at this one.)  The Remnant Church HQ is across Lexington from the temple at 700 West Lexington Ave.  The Cutlerite Church is just a few blocks south of the temple lot at 807 S. Cottage St.  There are lots and lots of other Restoration related churches in Independence, but that should be plenty.</p>
<p>While you&#8217;re in Zion, remember that it is one of the BBQ capitals of the world.  Eat at Gates BBQ (a local chain) 10440 East 40 Highway in Independence.  Your kids will make a mess, but you shouldn&#8217;t miss the experience.</p>
<p>Next, take 291 Highway north to Liberty.  The reconstructed Liberty Jail (216 N. Main St., Liberty, MO) is inside of an LDS Visitor Center, which you should visit.  Take Interstate 35 north to Far West.  The Temple Site is owned by the LDS church and has the corner stones.  At Exit 48, take County Road HH east, turn left onto County Road D.  The temple site is at the corner of D and NW Far West Dr.  If you want to goto Haun&#8217;s Mill site, it&#8217;s very remote and there&#8217;s nothing much there at present.  Take Far West Dr. east to Highway 13, turn left (north).  Take 13 to County Road U. Keep going until the road ends, turn right (south) on Catawba Rd.  Before you get to the Shoal Creek bridge, turn right (west) onto a dirt road and the site is less than a mile off that road.</p>
<p>Adam-ondi-Ahman also has nothing there except a few plaques and a lot of fences, but people like to go.  If you&#8217;re back to Interstate 35 going north, it&#8217;s at Exit 72 and there are many big signs leading you there.  Interstate 35 takes you north to Lamoni, Iowa (Exit 4), which is the location of Graceland University (the Community of Christ version of BYU).  Joseph Smith III&#8217;s home (Liberty Hall, 1138 W. Main St.) is open for tours.</p>
<p>Nauvoo isn&#8217;t an interstate destination, but there are very reasonable roads to get there.  If you&#8217;re up in Lamoni, you can take US 34 east to Illinois and then you can take the river road south to Nauvoo.  We&#8217;ve taken Iowa highway 2 east from Lamoni to Nauvoo and that was a nice drive.  In either case, as you&#8217;re in the Iowa countryside, you&#8217;re in the general vicinity of the Mormon trail.  Nauvoo is great and you ought to spend 2 days there to see it.  The LDS church sites include all sorts of pioneer era reenactments for kids (making bricks, newspapers, candles, etc.)  If you have ancestors in Nauvoo, go to the LDS records office and find out where they lived.  Community of Christ&#8217;s sites make you take the tour, but you should go because they have all the Smith family property, from Joseph and Emma&#8217;s homes to their graves.  Carthage Jail is just east of Nauvoo and there are signs.</p>
<p>Take Interstate 80 back to Utah, so that you can visit Council Bluffs/Omaha.  There&#8217;s a reconstructed Kanesville Tabernacle (where Brigham Young reorganized the LDS church in 1847) and an LDS temple and Visitor Center in Winter Quarters (at the north edge of Omaha).</p>
<p>And there you have it.</p>
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		<title>By: The Greek and Roman Testaments: A Scriptural Analogy at Mormon Matters</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12848</link>
		<dc:creator>The Greek and Roman Testaments: A Scriptural Analogy at Mormon Matters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12848</guid>
		<description>[...] of the interesting panel discussions at last weekend’s Restoration Studies Symposium was entitled “The Future Status and Use of the Book of Mormon in the Community of Christ.” The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the interesting panel discussions at last weekend’s Restoration Studies Symposium was entitled “The Future Status and Use of the Book of Mormon in the Community of Christ.” The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rigel Hawthorne</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12846</link>
		<dc:creator>Rigel Hawthorne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12846</guid>
		<description>I'm envious.  Living in the sticks has its drawbacks.  I was considering (as I have little other opportunity to feel that kind of connection) attending a CoC church in the next town for the cultural experience.  Can anyone tell me what I might expect in a CoC service? (Very small town, small church, remote from their headquarters).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m envious.  Living in the sticks has its drawbacks.  I was considering (as I have little other opportunity to feel that kind of connection) attending a CoC church in the next town for the cultural experience.  Can anyone tell me what I might expect in a CoC service? (Very small town, small church, remote from their headquarters).</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12843</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12843</guid>
		<description>Great post.  I really need to take a trip out to "Zion" to see it for myself.  Thanks for the write-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  I really need to take a trip out to &#8220;Zion&#8221; to see it for myself.  Thanks for the write-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Brown</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12840</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12840</guid>
		<description>So I'm heading out east from Cedar City in two weeks to trapse across Missouri, Illinois, and Iowa.  Can anyone give me a good itinerary of places to visit, LDS and CoC, Reformist, etc.  I want to see it all.

Derek "The temple of the Melchizedek priesthood will be built when the fragments of the Church reunite and the Saints are called to Zion."

It's intersting you note that. The United Apostolic Bretheren (polygamist Utah splinter) quite Woolsey in much the same fashion through a supposed revelation given him by John Tayler that the LDS Church would be forced to abandon its beliefs in order to spread the Book of Mormon throughout the world and that certain Patriarchal orders were called to carry on the practice until a great reuniting prior to the 2nd Coming.  It makes much sense to me that these different groups hold on to different tenents of the faith, as well as does wider Christianity, until a great confluence happens and we all come in unity of the faith, and the proper orders are reaffirmed.  This is my belief and I feel that its imminent and will be affected by our economic collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;m heading out east from Cedar City in two weeks to trapse across Missouri, Illinois, and Iowa.  Can anyone give me a good itinerary of places to visit, LDS and CoC, Reformist, etc.  I want to see it all.</p>
<p>Derek &#8220;The temple of the Melchizedek priesthood will be built when the fragments of the Church reunite and the Saints are called to Zion.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s intersting you note that. The United Apostolic Bretheren (polygamist Utah splinter) quite Woolsey in much the same fashion through a supposed revelation given him by John Tayler that the LDS Church would be forced to abandon its beliefs in order to spread the Book of Mormon throughout the world and that certain Patriarchal orders were called to carry on the practice until a great reuniting prior to the 2nd Coming.  It makes much sense to me that these different groups hold on to different tenents of the faith, as well as does wider Christianity, until a great confluence happens and we all come in unity of the faith, and the proper orders are reaffirmed.  This is my belief and I feel that its imminent and will be affected by our economic collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: Zionssuburb</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12809</link>
		<dc:creator>Zionssuburb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12809</guid>
		<description>Joe,

If I remember right, I believe we at lunch together, you were telling a story about a recent trip to Ireland, correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>If I remember right, I believe we at lunch together, you were telling a story about a recent trip to Ireland, correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Derek P. Moore</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12795</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek P. Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12795</guid>
		<description>The Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite) "temple" you mention is really more of an Endowment House, as they continue to practice the Nauvoo-era endowment.

Restoration RLDS is represented here in Independence.  They are RLDS leaders disaffected by the reforms of the Community of Christ, and they so have declared their congregations independent (but united as Restoration Branches).  For example, they are not scared of the Book of Mormon, they find no "problems" with it like the Community of Christ used to and still does (CoC had to go so far as to "reaffirm" the Book of Mormon last year).

And, of course, there are a bunch of polygamous groups in town (and a remnant branch of the original United Order is rumored to be south of here in Humansville, MO).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite) &#8220;temple&#8221; you mention is really more of an Endowment House, as they continue to practice the Nauvoo-era endowment.</p>
<p>Restoration RLDS is represented here in Independence.  They are RLDS leaders disaffected by the reforms of the Community of Christ, and they so have declared their congregations independent (but united as Restoration Branches).  For example, they are not scared of the Book of Mormon, they find no &#8220;problems&#8221; with it like the Community of Christ used to and still does (CoC had to go so far as to &#8220;reaffirm&#8221; the Book of Mormon last year).</p>
<p>And, of course, there are a bunch of polygamous groups in town (and a remnant branch of the original United Order is rumored to be south of here in Humansville, MO).</p>
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		<title>By: Derek P. Moore</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12765</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek P. Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12765</guid>
		<description>There is no designated Colesville site, unfortunately — no sign nor historical monument.  But it is pretty much the Old Northeast neighborhoods of downtown Kansas City, if I have figured the old descriptions correctly.  Its layout and geography is greatly affected by the Irish from Chicago that came to the area during the 1840s, the second wave of mass settlement in Jackson County following the extermination order and exodus from Nauvoo.

There are supposed to be 24 temples (schools of learning) on the temple mount in Independence.  So the RLDS built the first one.  I think its great, though all local non-members seem to think that we believe Jesus will slide down the spiral during his descension at the Second Coming.  Some even say we expect Jesus to descend through to the basement into a Cadillac, which he will drive out of the temple.  I am not kidding you, I have had people in Kansas City insist that this is what Mormons believe.  They usually find out I'm Mormon when I insist that they are wrong.

The temple of the Melchizedek priesthood will be built when the fragments of the Church reunite and the Saints are called to Zion.  The Church of Christ (Temple Lot) has tried to built this temple twice, but halted construction both times.  Joseph Smith, Jr., buried large, smooth marker stones to outline the corners of the chief temple, but the Church of Christ dug these up and reburied their own markers.  Joseph Smith's original markers are on display at a Temple Lot museum.  Some years ago, the president of the Church of Christ received a revelation to move their markers 10 feet to the east.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no designated Colesville site, unfortunately — no sign nor historical monument.  But it is pretty much the Old Northeast neighborhoods of downtown Kansas City, if I have figured the old descriptions correctly.  Its layout and geography is greatly affected by the Irish from Chicago that came to the area during the 1840s, the second wave of mass settlement in Jackson County following the extermination order and exodus from Nauvoo.</p>
<p>There are supposed to be 24 temples (schools of learning) on the temple mount in Independence.  So the RLDS built the first one.  I think its great, though all local non-members seem to think that we believe Jesus will slide down the spiral during his descension at the Second Coming.  Some even say we expect Jesus to descend through to the basement into a Cadillac, which he will drive out of the temple.  I am not kidding you, I have had people in Kansas City insist that this is what Mormons believe.  They usually find out I&#8217;m Mormon when I insist that they are wrong.</p>
<p>The temple of the Melchizedek priesthood will be built when the fragments of the Church reunite and the Saints are called to Zion.  The Church of Christ (Temple Lot) has tried to built this temple twice, but halted construction both times.  Joseph Smith, Jr., buried large, smooth marker stones to outline the corners of the chief temple, but the Church of Christ dug these up and reburied their own markers.  Joseph Smith&#8217;s original markers are on display at a Temple Lot museum.  Some years ago, the president of the Church of Christ received a revelation to move their markers 10 feet to the east.</p>
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		<title>By: John Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12751</link>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12751</guid>
		<description>Amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Geisner</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12748</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Geisner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12748</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all your comments. I loved to have had more time to visit all the Restoration historical sites in Missouri. I plan on going again and then I can see the site of the Colesville Branch.

I wish I could have met you Zionssuburb. In many ways the conference was a whirlwind. You bring up two more important treasures and you are correct that those who carried around the artifacts we quite helpful in pointing out interesting things about the items.

I kept having people tell me that all the John Whitmer events are like this. I am skeptical because I can't believe anything could top these three days. John and others almost have me convinced that I need to get my reservations for Voree. If I go, does that mean I have to choose between Brannan, Smith or Strang?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all your comments. I loved to have had more time to visit all the Restoration historical sites in Missouri. I plan on going again and then I can see the site of the Colesville Branch.</p>
<p>I wish I could have met you Zionssuburb. In many ways the conference was a whirlwind. You bring up two more important treasures and you are correct that those who carried around the artifacts we quite helpful in pointing out interesting things about the items.</p>
<p>I kept having people tell me that all the John Whitmer events are like this. I am skeptical because I can&#8217;t believe anything could top these three days. John and others almost have me convinced that I need to get my reservations for Voree. If I go, does that mean I have to choose between Brannan, Smith or Strang?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12736</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12736</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this write-up. You made me even more jealous that I missed this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this write-up. You made me even more jealous that I missed this.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zionssuburb</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12735</link>
		<dc:creator>Zionssuburb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12735</guid>
		<description>Joe,

I currently live in the Liberty, MO area, and like you attended this session of JWHA.  It was my first time attending, but I'll never miss another one while I reside in the area.  To your comments around the presentations I say a firm AMEN!  I felt the same electricy during the visit to the archives.  A couple of documents that I remember were 1) the letter Joseph wrote to President of the United States, often referred to as the 'redress letter'.  Also, for me, 2) the practice worksheet from Joseph's study of Hebrew, containing a sentence and then his written Hebrew characters, was fascinating.  I was thankful to a researcher on the Joseph Smith Papers, that was helping carry the artifacts around the room, as he would point little interesting things about the documents.  Jon and Dan thanks for helping to organize such a great event.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>I currently live in the Liberty, MO area, and like you attended this session of JWHA.  It was my first time attending, but I&#8217;ll never miss another one while I reside in the area.  To your comments around the presentations I say a firm AMEN!  I felt the same electricy during the visit to the archives.  A couple of documents that I remember were 1) the letter Joseph wrote to President of the United States, often referred to as the &#8216;redress letter&#8217;.  Also, for me, 2) the practice worksheet from Joseph&#8217;s study of Hebrew, containing a sentence and then his written Hebrew characters, was fascinating.  I was thankful to a researcher on the Joseph Smith Papers, that was helping carry the artifacts around the room, as he would point little interesting things about the documents.  Jon and Dan thanks for helping to organize such a great event.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Derek P. Moore</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/17/a-california-mormon-visits-the-other-zion/#comment-12718</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek P. Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=424#comment-12718</guid>
		<description>You should have visited Old Northeast where the Colesville Branch had their settlement.  I own a plot of land in the area where this consecrated village once sat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should have visited Old Northeast where the Colesville Branch had their settlement.  I own a plot of land in the area where this consecrated village once sat.</p>
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