Can I ask though – how did you get this picked up and into google news?

Very impressive, is it something that is just up to Google or you actively created?

Obviously this is a popular blog with great data so well done on your seo success..

Mate, I answered this in #50. For me, again, the things you buy, what you pay money for, can never be included in ‘culture’, no matter what some weird sociologist claims.

Saying that KFC or Mccas is a part of america’s cultural influence on the world is like saying that some samoan farmer who plants banana and sells it to clients in los angeles is ‘influencing’ californian culture! And again, I repeat, when you guys start to talk with your hands after eating spaghetti, well then I might believe yrour arguments here.

But putting Hollywood (where all acting Oscars went to europeans this year) KFC, Domino’s, Ford and similar businesses forward as americas’ culture influence on the world must surely be the epitome of US arrogance and pomposity! And why, if there are US cultural influences to admire like edgar allen poe, hemingway, MLK speeches, jane pittman, the concept of freedom of the press, even the idea of having a single currency across several states which the EU successfully copied (without paying royalties) Why with all those great examples of american culture would one look to a pizza or a burger?? Beats me. Anyway we’ve been through this before and I have to get some sleep, gotta catch a plan tomorrow.

So , Carlos, what is a nation’s cultural if not its arts, its food, its trends, it clothings? Exactly ,what in your mind is culture? And keep it to modern culture.

Thaanks

Our stake aims for 50 a year but never reaches 30. I heard that one stake in Sydney, I think Macarthur, regularly gets over 100 but most are islanders and kiwis, not the ‘she’ll-be-right’ types. I’m certain that the 50% won’t happen, not even close. Also in Sydney -and probably all major cities- the growth of Wards and Stakes is mainly due to immigration of the already members, especially from the islands.

They did send us the mission baptism numbers -all missions in the area including PNG- but I don’t recall them now. I’ll look it up next stake meeting because I’m sure I filed it away somewhere.

Interesting, even 25 years ago I thought the good folks of Melbourne were not very interested in religion. I did hear lot of them tell me, “Got me own religion mate, she’ll-be-right” and yet the local churches were going bankrupt. As missionaries we were told that at the rate we were baptizing people and the zero population growth of the country, Australia would be almost 50% Mormon by the year 2020. Something tells me that prediction isn’t going to come true…

In 1981 the five missions in Australia were baptizing on average around 800 souls per month total. Carlos, you don’t happen to know how many convert baptisms there were last year in your country do you? I’m just curious if things have changed much…

Thanks,

I’m not sure about Hobart, but Melbourne is much more tolerant today than 20 years ago, even though people are losing interest in bible things. But yes, I’d say bible bashers are treated better although lately the big evangelical churches have being coping a hiding in the press due to their business practices.

I served in Melbourne (Melbin) and Hobart…. Do they actually treat the bible bashers better even?

Well, again, you’re saying that the goods and services a nation produces are its culture. In this we disagree. I think the goods sell because they are good products -no matter who makes it. so jeans, McDonald’s, KFS isn’t part of a nations culture but its goods and services. And again, its akin to saying that all US drivers who drive a Japanese car prefer or ‘revere’ Japanese culture. But that isn’t the case at all. Or all who eat pizza’s revere Italian culture and so on.

That ‘starting parties at 9pm’ is because in US culture many or most parties start around 9pm, like proms etc. In most of the latin world parties tend to start at midnight and finish at 6am. So that aspect of ‘american culture’ hasn’t spread at all.

And (again) basketball spread because its a good product, and good game that people can understand and enjoy. Its not a question of copying or adopting US culture. Same thing happened with football (your soccer) and rugby which the English invented. Honestly I haven’t seen American football anywhere else than in the US/Canada.

“Well, its just that for me ‘US culture’ is more about gridiron and cheer leaders or starting parties at 9pm. That part of US culture hasn’t caught on that much imo.”

They have America football in Europe. But, of course, I ask the question, why would you want it when you have Soccer? Let’s not forget basketball. That has become very universal. There is also Ice Hockey in many parts of the world as well, including Japan (granted it is Canadian, but that’s close enough).

But in addition to what IB mentioned, you have jeans and other clothing, food (McDonald’s, Wendy’s KFS, etc), music and much more.. Let’s face it American culture is worldwide.

I didn’t get the “starting parties at 9PM.: Most Europeans eat very late. Spanish eat as late as 11PM.

‘US style Pentecostal churches’ = religion, not culture.

‘the Simpsons = good product,

Fallout Boy = bad product which won’t last.

‘Brittney Spears’ = no undies, nough said’

‘Also I know jury trials aren’t a US invention’ at least you recognized it. But its still US culture for you?

And yes, I knew about those Boca girls who seem to have less clothing that the Dallas Cowboy’s ones (who came here to Sydney once) but that’s a drop in the ocean and honestly I don’t think that they will last for long. My opinion only and I may be wrong. But when I saw Boca-San Lorenzo some 3 years ago the girls didn’t get much attention. The two ‘hinchadas’ wanted to kill each other and out sing each other. But just what I saw that Sunday afternoon, which may change one day, again, if the product is actually, fundamentally, good.

Notice that the FLDS isn’t selling anywhere? I say because its a bad product, nothing to do with the culture.

Well, at least you dropped some of the hatred. Welcome to MM (I’ll ignore the ‘ridiculous’ accusation)

By culture I mean the way people do things that is outside business; cultivating social actions and practices not the product one sells. And I know that we use terms like ‘organisational culture’ but that’s not about the product but about the work practice.

When one has to sell something each month, weather its a movie, book, or franchise a la McDonald’s, then its no longer about ‘culture’ but just work -we have to make our quota and it doesn’t matter who you sell to or where they live. As an example, look at the Japanese, we buy their products but not necessarily their respectful ‘culture’ at home. We also buy Iranian oil but don’t import their culture even if you go to an Iranian restaurant ever now and then. And we buy Microsoft products but don’t necessarily like gridiron or baseball -nor watch that so called ‘world series’

But the world is getting smaller and you see things like Italian style cafe’s with tables on the footpath more and more. But again its because the product is good; people enjoy eating outside next to the street, but not because we are all becoming Italians nor do we ‘revere’ Italian culture; like you don’t necessarily start to speak with your hands after eating some ravioli! We may enjoy seeing them talk with their hands. Then there’s the pizzas, spaghetti’s, lasagna …..

You see, in the ‘real world’ we have to sell and make our quota and it doesn’t matter where the buyer lives.

PD Its ‘Carlos JC’ now, so as to not offend ‘Carlos U’ )

“Well, its just that for me ‘US culture’ is more about gridiron and cheer leaders or starting parties at 9pm.”

That’s it? The religious, legal, and popular culture of the United States is sweeping the world–trials by jury are starting in Venezuela; US style Pentecostal churches are attracting huge numbers of converts throughout the developing world; the Simpsons, Fallout Boy, and Brittney Spears are known world-wide, yet for you American culture is nothing more than US football, cheerleaders, and starting evenings early. No wonder you didn’t get Jeff’s point.

BTW, Boca Juniors has its own cheerleading squad now, so I guess you’ll have to wipe away that “pillar” of American culture that nobody reveres.

Warning–following link shows young women in very immodest attire. I’m posting it simply to show Carlos I’m not making it up. Do not click on it if immodesty offends you:

http://www.pbase.com/iceman64/image/39606581

Also I know jury trials aren’t a US invention; I also know much of what is believed to be US culture is actually shared by countries colonized by Anglo-Saxon peoples, but much of Anglo-Saxon culture is associated primarily with the US, particularly in the developing world.

Interesting that Central America will now be the promised land…

By the way, what cities did you do?

I think you’ll find that the country has changed a lot since you served here, especially the big cities. I think towns are more biased and less visitor friendly than the big cities. The Olympics had a huge effect on the culture here and now its probably more european and pro-international than pro-US. And people are much more tolerant of visitors because of the huge tourism industry. But missionaries still cope a lot flack and get hosed down every now and then but its because of the general anti-religion culture than a anti-US thing, imo only. Others may think differently off course.

It seems you’ve traveled more than me. I only do some pacific, and the a run from Chile, Arg, Uru, Para and southern Brasil (and I’m kind of tired of the traveling). The Americans do the rest of Latin American. Our HQ is in Tokyo. But I had problems visiting the temple in Chile because they made me wait for about an hour to verify my recommend, issued in Sydney, and after that the Pt still interviewed me. So after that experience I just avoid temples and only do the job.

But we may be seeing the same from different angles. I’d say that people buy US products, like movies, books, TV shows, because they are simply good value and good art work. You’re saying that it’s because they like US culture. Well, its just that for me ‘US culture’ is more about gridiron and cheer leaders or starting parties at 9pm. That part of US culture hasn’t caught on that much imo. And yes we agree that the problem is with the government, or with Bush really, but not with the ‘average american’. In that we are saying the same thing with different words.

I see what you meant with ‘white shirt’, but really I think that there are only very few countries left around the world where ‘white shirts’ isn’t the basic norm for business or formal wear. But honestly I prefer light colored shirts for church

Here’s what you wrote:

“Maybe you ought to get out more into the real world. American culture isn’t ‘revered’ at all. People watch american films and shows because they are good, great works of art. Nothing to do with american culture..”

What are films, books, music, TV shows, and art if not culture? That people like and ‘consume’ them means they like and consume American culture. Your attacking Jeff for making that very point was ridiculous.

Other manifestations of American culture are sweeping the globe as well, from fast food “restaraunts” to gated housing communities whose homes are built on floorplans drawn up in North America.

Is your argument that these aren’t representations of US culture? If so, what is your definition of US culture and what elements of it aren’t revered throughout the world?

I can’t remember ever reading something about using an initial. Where was that? or you may have written to another Carlos.
(I’m starting to use my initials from now on just in case)

Just for Quix #37,

Oops, I meant to say “I wouldn’t mind a GC prayer in another language, but [for talks] we all need to know what the speaker is saying [in their talks] for it to be worthwhile”

I agree with having prayers in another language; its the talks in sacrament that I want to understand fully.

Mate, whats wrong with you? You stalking me or what?

For the millionth time, I’m not the same person that was on T&S. (Although after reading it he was right that the Spaniards’ z is the ‘th’ sound in English, but so what?)

Go back to whatever rock you came from!

And by the way, I wrote “people buy US products because they are simply good’ and ‘people are friendly to Americans, there isn’t a problem with the average American’.

Seems that in your hatred you didn’t bother to read what I actually wrote here.

No, don’t think so. I don’t, doctrine is just that, doctrine.

Carlos,

Fair enough, I’m a little surprised by your passiveness as many members in Australia weren’t thrilled at all with it and yet still believed the book was true. With the limited geography theory being pushed these days at FAIR and FARMS, I would say those of us in the USA will need to adopt your attitude as well and except that the promised land is actually in Central America somewhere…

BTW, I actually agree with you on the ugly American thing. While on a mission in your fair country, I can’t even tell you how many times someone shouted at me “Yankee go home!” and other even less friendly sayings. I also spent five years of Okinawa Japan and found that we are just tolerated there as well. Not loved, as some would like to believe.

On the other hand, I would like to point out that cultural colonialism is often a two-way process. On my mission in Peru, it seemed that the majority of people that we baptized that stayed active in the church were from a lower to upper middle class economic background. The Pentecostal churches tended to convert many of those from the lowest classes. Although American missionaries spent time trying to infuse some aspects of Mormon culture into the Peruvian congregations, many of the Peruvians, especially those in a middle-class social position, had aspirations of emigration and seemed fascinated with all things American. I think that one of the draws that the church exerts in many third-world countries is the promise of romanticized Americanism.