Comments on: Shadows and Spirituality

By: Jan

Jan — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:35:11 +0000

Just wanna ask if what is this shadow you are talking about…I’m not a native user of the language so I beg your pardon.
It’s kinda intriguing when you said that Jesus chose the third path then this line “Everything else is a shadow, that fails in the end”, does this connected to path that Jesus chose and fails?

By: Stephen Marsh

Stephen Marsh — Sun, 25 May 2008 03:54:15 +0000

I am soooo not going to give you my name — I’m glad you are coming back.

It makes the site worthwhile.

By: I am soooo not going to give you my name

I am soooo not going to give you my name — Fri, 23 May 2008 11:33:59 +0000

Thank you for putting in such few words why I have been excommunicated and why/how I am coming back. Can I tell how much I love this “mormon matter” site?

By: Anon non-believer

Anon non-believer — Fri, 23 May 2008 01:22:11 +0000

This will turn into a never ending quagmire if you let it. For myself, I realized this pursuit was doomed to fail because in the end we each must still DECIDE if the source of our emotional reactions, flashes of insight, sudden realizations, etc, are from some supernatural source. You can vary the criteria you use to distinguish the divine from the common but if you have to be the one to decide then your certainty is essentially self-manufactured and that is NOT what anyone is looking to hang their hat of faith on, so to speak.

The raison d’entre for the whole exercise of discerning “the Spirit”, if it even exists, is to trust in it in order to determine absolute truth, if it exists. What everyone is most likely looking for is some kind of experience with the divine that is self-confirming. Imagine someone on a desert island who has never heard of God and the idea crosses his mind that there may be such a being and he decides to speak with him and comes away from the experience understanding there is a “Holy Spirit” and actually calls it that. We all wanted a similar experience where one simply doesn’t have to decide if something is from the divine, because it is. Not because we DECIDED it was based on some criteria such as experiencing a stronger emotional reaction to some stimulus than we expected. I say, don’t bother trying. Emotional reactions are just that, flashes of insight are just that. Everyone experiences them. I don’t think it’s worth trying to become more certain of them by your own devices.

By: Stephen Marsh

Stephen Marsh — Fri, 23 May 2008 00:18:26 +0000

I’ll need to post more on the subject, but appreciate the thoughtful feedback.

By: Martin Willey

Martin Willey — Thu, 22 May 2008 22:32:24 +0000

Stephen: Thanks for this intriguing post. I have been an active member of the Church for 40+ years and still struggle with the difference between spirituality, religiosity and emotionalism. I want to understand this difference - - and by that I mean I want to understand how it works for me in my life. But how do you figure it out? I think I now understand when I am motivated by religiosity and how to isolate those feelings. But dissecting one’s emotions so that it is understood when the spirit speaking to the heart through feelings, versus the experiencing of mere emotional feeling arising from life experience - -or whatever - - is, for me, very difficult. I would love to hear more. I would love to hear your discussion of the “third way” to which you refer.

By: Ray

Ray — Thu, 22 May 2008 18:05:49 +0000

Matt, how about the church a few miles from us where each and every sermon is prefaced by a pulse-pounding rock fest that gets the entire congregation, including children, jumping and and down and hyped emotionally - all in the name of spiritualism? Only after everyone is revved up does the preacher begin his message.

There is an old movie that is interesting - “Leap of Faith”, starring Steve Martin. I thought there were some obvious problems, but the interplay of emotionalism and spiritualism is illustrated quite well.

By: Matt Thurston

Matt Thurston — Thu, 22 May 2008 17:26:20 +0000

Interesting way to dilineate between spirituality, religiosity and emotionalism.

My problem is that my spirituality (which I feel deeply) is often boxed in and/or choked out by religiosity.

I’m not sure I understand your definition of emotionalism. Give me an example of “emotions that go with some spiritual experiences, but without the spirit.”

By: DavidH

DavidH — Thu, 22 May 2008 16:59:22 +0000

I have not tracked down the original source, but I like the saying I have heard in some 12-step meetings, something like–” Religion is for people afraid of hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been.”

By: John Nilsson

John Nilsson — Thu, 22 May 2008 15:01:16 +0000

Stephen,

Nice post.

Have you encountered examples of LDS and non-LDS who have mastered the art of the Spirit? Or begun to master it?

By: Neal Davis

Neal Davis — Thu, 22 May 2008 13:54:25 +0000

Good thoughts. It’s sad that so often we descend into the wrong patterns in the true Church, even though we have access to things so much greater. And, for all the seminary lessons on D&C 8, it’s still very hard for me to discern sometimes, unless I know the spirit in which something is planned and executed.