Comments on: 30 Years of Authorized Black Priesthood http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/ Exploring Mormon culture in a balanced way Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:12:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Deedee http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-25900 Deedee Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:44:16 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-25900 #15 Hawkgrrrl--The Ham / Curse of Cain stuff is not uniquely Mormon, BTW. Mormons pilfered that stinky little gem right out of Baptist rhetoric. Since it was never doctrinal nor created by the church, should the church apologize for it? "The next question: "Was Cain cursed with a black skin?" Technically the black skin was not the curse, but the mark of the curse. The scriptures do not say that Cain was made black, but we read that his descendants were. (Moses 7:22.) We may well suppose that Cain was also black and that this was the mark the Lord placed upon him. (Genesis 4:15.)" (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 2 Joseph Fielding Smith) "President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but "the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder. He killed Abel and God set a mark upon his posterity. But the spirits are pure (i. e. innocent. See D. C. 93:38.) that enter their tabernacles and there will be a chance for the redemption of all the children of Adam, except the sons of perdition."-J. H., Dec. 25, 1869." (Way to Perfection chapter 16 Joseph Fielding Smith) "It was well understood by the early elders of the Church that the mark which was placed on Cain and which his posterity inherited was the black skin. The Book of Moses informs us that Cain and his descendants were black. (Way to Perfection chapter 16 Joseph Fielding Smith) This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. At a meeting of the general authorities of the Church, held August 22, 1895, the question of the status of the negro in relation to the Priesthood was asked and the minutes of that meeting say: "President George Q. Cannon remarked that the Prophet taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain's offspring." Joseph Smith has left very little on record in his own words outside of the Pearl of Great Price. During the course of a discussion in Nauvoo in 1842, on the question as to whether the negroes or the Indians have received the greater ill-treatment from the whites, the Prophet Joseph said: "The Indians have greater cause to complain of the treatment of the whites, than the negroes, or sons of Cain." (D. H. C. 4:501.) But we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro may be baptized and enter the Church; and some of these unfortunate people have been baptized and have proved their faithfulness and worthiness before the Lord, in this their second estate, setting examples in righteousness which many of the sons of Shem and Japheth could emulate with everlasting profit. Surely the Lord will remember their faithfulness and reward them accordingly." (same as above) If this doctrine came from the Baptist church, would someone please explain to me why Joseph Smith was teaching this? The PGP is scripture to LDS, correct? Then that means is it (was) a doctrine within the church. While it may not be an original thought to the LDS church, it should apologize for the doctrine anyway. Any church that teaches such things should be ashamed of itself. God isn't racist...neither should we be. (no, I'm NOT saying that anyone on this message board is a racist). #15 Hawkgrrrl–The Ham / Curse of Cain stuff is not uniquely Mormon, BTW. Mormons pilfered that stinky little gem right out of Baptist rhetoric. Since it was never doctrinal nor created by the church, should the church apologize for it?

“The next question: “Was Cain cursed with a black skin?” Technically the black skin was not the curse, but the mark of the curse. The scriptures do not say that Cain was made black, but we read that his descendants were. (Moses 7:22.) We may well suppose that Cain was also black and that this was the mark the Lord placed upon him. (Genesis 4:15.)” (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 2 Joseph Fielding Smith)

“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but “the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder. He killed Abel and God set a mark upon his posterity. But the spirits are pure (i. e. innocent. See D. C. 93:38.) that enter their tabernacles and there will be a chance for the redemption of all the children of Adam, except the sons of perdition.”-J. H., Dec. 25, 1869.” (Way to Perfection chapter 16 Joseph Fielding Smith)

“It was well understood by the early elders of the Church that the mark which was placed on Cain and which his posterity inherited was the black skin. The Book of Moses informs us that Cain and his descendants were black. (Way to Perfection chapter 16 Joseph Fielding Smith)
This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. At a meeting of the general authorities of the Church, held August 22, 1895, the question of the status of the negro in relation to the Priesthood was asked and the minutes of that meeting say:

“President George Q. Cannon remarked that the Prophet taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain’s offspring.”

Joseph Smith has left very little on record in his own words outside of the Pearl of Great Price. During the course of a discussion in Nauvoo in 1842, on the question as to whether the negroes or the Indians have received the greater ill-treatment from the whites, the Prophet Joseph said: “The Indians have greater cause to complain of the treatment of the whites, than the negroes, or sons of Cain.” (D. H. C. 4:501.) But we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro may be baptized and enter the Church; and some of these unfortunate people have been baptized and have proved their faithfulness and worthiness before the Lord, in this their second estate, setting examples in righteousness which many of the sons of Shem and Japheth could emulate with everlasting profit. Surely the Lord will remember their faithfulness and reward them accordingly.” (same as above)

If this doctrine came from the Baptist church, would someone please explain to me why Joseph Smith was teaching this? The PGP is scripture to LDS, correct? Then that means is it (was) a doctrine within the church. While it may not be an original thought to the LDS church, it should apologize for the doctrine anyway. Any church that teaches such things should be ashamed of itself. God isn’t racist…neither should we be. (no, I’m NOT saying that anyone on this message board is a racist).

]]> By: I am soooo not going to give you my name http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18659 I am soooo not going to give you my name Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:29:01 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18659 @MArtin Willey, this is a touching memory. As far as France is concerned I can't tell you how it went with the brothers but I can tell you that it went absolutely unnoticed in sacrament meeting. As a matter of fact I had to come here and read about it to be remembered it. I wish we had some african readers here to tell us how they feel about it because frankly I really can't tell it has a been an issue in France. My mom beccame a member in 78 or 79 and I have never heard anything said about it in the church here, not even from black members if the church and let me tell you that growing up in a big city I met plenty of black members. @MArtin Willey, this is a touching memory.

As far as France is concerned I can’t tell you how it went with the brothers but I can tell you that it went absolutely unnoticed in sacrament meeting. As a matter of fact I had to come here and read about it to be remembered it.
I wish we had some african readers here to tell us how they feel about it because frankly I really can’t tell it has a been an issue in France. My mom beccame a member in 78 or 79 and I have never heard anything said about it in the church here, not even from black members if the church and let me tell you that growing up in a big city I met plenty of black members.

]]> By: Dennis http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18568 Dennis Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:51:48 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18568 Very nice timeline. A member of my ward gave an excellent talk in sacrament meeting last Sunday on some of the historical issues leading up the 1978 revelation in sacrament meeting. The talk is printed <a HREF="http://thinkinginamarrowbone.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/june-8-1978/" rel="nofollow"> here</a>. Very nice timeline.

A member of my ward gave an excellent talk in sacrament meeting last Sunday on some of the historical issues leading up the 1978 revelation in sacrament meeting. The talk is printed here.

]]> By: Dave http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18556 Dave Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:57:09 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18556 The Church just posted an excellent new video on their Youtube channel (LDSPublicAffairs) in celebration of the 30th anniversary. Thought people might be interested and it may even be worth embedding here on Mormon Matters: http://youtube.com/watch?v=13uvDGlcQ8o The Church just posted an excellent new video on their Youtube channel (LDSPublicAffairs) in celebration of the 30th anniversary. Thought people might be interested and it may even be worth embedding here on Mormon Matters:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=13uvDGlcQ8o

]]> By: Cicero http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18506 Cicero Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:21:00 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18506 I think the clear message of this time line is that the church policy and relation with those of African descent is far more complicated than the: "They were racists and now aren't, but refuse to apologize" storyline that gets repeated everywhere. I think the clear message of this time line is that the church policy and relation with those of African descent is far more complicated than the:

“They were racists and now aren’t, but refuse to apologize” storyline that gets repeated everywhere.

]]> By: MArtin Willey http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18496 MArtin Willey Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:37:43 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18496 My family had been on vacation in Lake Powell, and when we returned a neighbor told us he had thrown our paper on the porch because he knew we would want to read "The Big News." After we looked at him quizzically, he told us about the revelation. My dad cried, and told us that his grandfather had often prayed that they ban would be lifted so that his African-American friend could receive the priesthood and go to the temple. I have always felt grateful that I was able to see this revelation came about. My family had been on vacation in Lake Powell, and when we returned a neighbor told us he had thrown our paper on the porch because he knew we would want to read “The Big News.” After we looked at him quizzically, he told us about the revelation. My dad cried, and told us that his grandfather had often prayed that they ban would be lifted so that his African-American friend could receive the priesthood and go to the temple. I have always felt grateful that I was able to see this revelation came about.

]]> By: Stephen Marsh http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18495 Stephen Marsh Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:12:26 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18495 <b>I’d just settle for our not being mislead by them politically at this juncture into creating an evangelical theocracy.</b> Amen. I’d just settle for our not being mislead by them politically at this juncture into creating an evangelical theocracy.

Amen.

]]> By: Best of the Week 2: Academic LDS : Mormon Metaphysics http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18494 Best of the Week 2: Academic LDS : Mormon Metaphysics Tue, 10 Jun 2008 03:09:20 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18494 [...] I was hoping there would be more academic posts on the commemoration of the priesthood revelation. There were a lot of posts but the only real academic one I saw was brief history at Mormon Matters. [...] [...] I was hoping there would be more academic posts on the commemoration of the priesthood revelation. There were a lot of posts but the only real academic one I saw was brief history at Mormon Matters. [...]

]]> By: hawkgrrrl http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18490 hawkgrrrl Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:08:14 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18490 Stephen M. - "Indeed. We should all apologize for being mislead that the Evangelicals had truth in that regard and in learning that from them." I'd just settle for our not being mislead by them politically at this juncture into creating an evangelical theocracy. Stephen M. - “Indeed. We should all apologize for being mislead that the Evangelicals had truth in that regard and in learning that from them.” I’d just settle for our not being mislead by them politically at this juncture into creating an evangelical theocracy.

]]> By: Stephen Marsh http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18488 Stephen Marsh Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:33:51 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18488 <b>For a scholarly review of such Christian behavior, read When Slavery Was Called Freedom: Evangelicalism, Proslavery, and the Causes of the Civil War by John Patrick Daly (Lexington, Kentucky: University Press of Kentucky, 2002) or Noah’s Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery by Stephen R. Haynes (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2002). You quickly find out that the “Curse of Cain” was not a vestige of Mormon doctrine, as critics pretend, but an inheritance of antebellum Protestantism.</b> http://www.fairblog.org/2008/06/09/hypocrisy-and-a-placard/ For a scholarly review of such Christian behavior, read When Slavery Was Called Freedom: Evangelicalism, Proslavery, and the Causes of the Civil War by John Patrick Daly (Lexington, Kentucky: University Press of Kentucky, 2002) or Noah’s Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery by Stephen R. Haynes (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2002). You quickly find out that the “Curse of Cain” was not a vestige of Mormon doctrine, as critics pretend, but an inheritance of antebellum Protestantism.

http://www.fairblog.org/2008/06/09/hypocrisy-and-a-placard/

]]> By: Stephen Marsh http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18482 Stephen Marsh Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:09:11 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18482 <b>The Ham / Curse of Cain stuff is not uniquely Mormon, BTW. Mormons pilfered that stinky little gem right out of Baptist rhetoric.</b> Indeed. We should all apologize for being mislead that the Evangelicals had truth in that regard and in learning that from them. Ok, that didn't satisfy anyone. One neat thing is that everywhere I've lived people celebrate this day with joy and thanksgiving. That says alot about the Church. The Ham / Curse of Cain stuff is not uniquely Mormon, BTW. Mormons pilfered that stinky little gem right out of Baptist rhetoric.

Indeed. We should all apologize for being mislead that the Evangelicals had truth in that regard and in learning that from them.

Ok, that didn’t satisfy anyone.

One neat thing is that everywhere I’ve lived people celebrate this day with joy and thanksgiving. That says alot about the Church.

]]> By: Ray http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18480 Ray Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:02:41 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18480 #16 - It has been refuted, clearly and directly. Bruce R. McConkie was one of the most vocal supporters of the ban. One month after the revelation lifting the ban, he said: "Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world. We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don’t matter any more. (”All Are Alike unto God” - BYU devotional - August 18, 1978) It doesn't get any clearer than that. #16 - It has been refuted, clearly and directly.

Bruce R. McConkie was one of the most vocal supporters of the ban. One month after the revelation lifting the ban, he said:

“Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.

We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don’t matter any more.

(”All Are Alike unto God” - BYU devotional - August 18, 1978)

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

]]> By: Rigel Hawthorne http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18478 Rigel Hawthorne Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:43:43 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18478 I was a kid watching TV in Arizona when a new announcement came on the television. They news crew showed footage of the Mesa, AZ temple since it was really the only local Mormon landmark and they reported the announcement. I walked in to where my mom was and told her what I had just heard. She called one of her friends that was in a different ward and told me when she got off the phone that when she told her friend this, her friend laughed at her and told her that couldn't possibly be true, that the news people must have got it wrong and that perhaps they meant that someday the priesthood might actually be extended in the manner described. I don't recall that her friend ever called back to acknowledge that her reaction was off the mark for the historic moment. I was a kid watching TV in Arizona when a new announcement came on the television. They news crew showed footage of the Mesa, AZ temple since it was really the only local Mormon landmark and they reported the announcement. I walked in to where my mom was and told her what I had just heard. She called one of her friends that was in a different ward and told me when she got off the phone that when she told her friend this, her friend laughed at her and told her that couldn’t possibly be true, that the news people must have got it wrong and that perhaps they meant that someday the priesthood might actually be extended in the manner described. I don’t recall that her friend ever called back to acknowledge that her reaction was off the mark for the historic moment.

]]> By: Donald http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18476 Donald Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:19:05 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18476 Regarding #12, they have refuted it, my bad... doing some research I can find that "white and delightsome" was in fact changed to "pure and delightsome" in the BoM. I guess that counts. >:) Regarding #12, they have refuted it, my bad… doing some research I can find that “white and delightsome” was in fact changed to “pure and delightsome” in the BoM. I guess that counts. >:)

]]> By: hawkgrrrl http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18475 hawkgrrrl Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:17:33 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18475 Jamie - great job! Just wow! I've been wanting to have access to this kind of list, without actually doing any of the work, so thanks. Valoel - you are probably right. But I don't really care whether it's ever given to women or not (outside of the temple, that is). It's not holding me back from anything I need. Priesthood is for the people you serve, not for the holder, and I'm serving plenty. It would be nice for single, divorced or widowed mothers to have for being able to administer blessings, but I have always assumed that a prayer in faith would be equally acceptable to the Lord for healing, and based on personal experience, it has been. I'm glad the ban was lifted - who wouldn't be? We hold the church to a standard of perfection on this and other issues that just isn't realistic, though. Does anyone in this day and age think slavery is NOT wrong? Yet, the Bible doesn't condemn it even once. There are regulations for how to treat slaves. That's obviously wrong-headed. The Ham / Curse of Cain stuff is not uniquely Mormon, BTW. Mormons pilfered that stinky little gem right out of Baptist rhetoric. Since it was never doctrinal nor created by the church, should the church apologize for it? Maybe. But if so, it's just because we live in an apology culture. Everyone apologizes for everything any more. It's those darn Disney and Nordstrom people. So, let me just get this out of the way and say that I'm sorry for the priesthood ban. It was wrong. I won't do it again. Feels good to get that off my chest. Jamie - great job! Just wow! I’ve been wanting to have access to this kind of list, without actually doing any of the work, so thanks.

Valoel - you are probably right. But I don’t really care whether it’s ever given to women or not (outside of the temple, that is). It’s not holding me back from anything I need. Priesthood is for the people you serve, not for the holder, and I’m serving plenty. It would be nice for single, divorced or widowed mothers to have for being able to administer blessings, but I have always assumed that a prayer in faith would be equally acceptable to the Lord for healing, and based on personal experience, it has been.

I’m glad the ban was lifted - who wouldn’t be? We hold the church to a standard of perfection on this and other issues that just isn’t realistic, though. Does anyone in this day and age think slavery is NOT wrong? Yet, the Bible doesn’t condemn it even once. There are regulations for how to treat slaves. That’s obviously wrong-headed.

The Ham / Curse of Cain stuff is not uniquely Mormon, BTW. Mormons pilfered that stinky little gem right out of Baptist rhetoric. Since it was never doctrinal nor created by the church, should the church apologize for it? Maybe. But if so, it’s just because we live in an apology culture. Everyone apologizes for everything any more. It’s those darn Disney and Nordstrom people.

So, let me just get this out of the way and say that I’m sorry for the priesthood ban. It was wrong. I won’t do it again. Feels good to get that off my chest.

]]> By: Sam B. http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18473 Sam B. Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:02:49 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18473 Donald, Huh? The Church's tax-exempt status is not derived from (or, frankly, related to) the priesthood. It derives from IRC 501(c) (although there is a certain scholarship that thinks it would be unconstitutional to tax churches; I haven't really read it, so I'm not going to chime in on that). If you've got a decent argument for what the church's tax-exempt status has to do with blacks and the priesthood, I'd love to hear it (but if you're going to argue Bob Jones University, you'd better make it pretty darn convincing; I haven't read it in a number of years, but I'm not convinced that that case has any bearing on a church's tax-exempt status). Like jjackson, I'm glad the ban was lifted; I don't believe that it was doctrinal, although I do believe that, as firmly entrenched as it had become, it was necessary that it be ended revelatorially. And I'm really glad that I was 2 when it was ended so that I never had to figure out how to reconcile my faith to a church that limited the priesthood based on race. Donald,
Huh? The Church’s tax-exempt status is not derived from (or, frankly, related to) the priesthood. It derives from IRC 501(c) (although there is a certain scholarship that thinks it would be unconstitutional to tax churches; I haven’t really read it, so I’m not going to chime in on that). If you’ve got a decent argument for what the church’s tax-exempt status has to do with blacks and the priesthood, I’d love to hear it (but if you’re going to argue Bob Jones University, you’d better make it pretty darn convincing; I haven’t read it in a number of years, but I’m not convinced that that case has any bearing on a church’s tax-exempt status).

Like jjackson, I’m glad the ban was lifted; I don’t believe that it was doctrinal, although I do believe that, as firmly entrenched as it had become, it was necessary that it be ended revelatorially. And I’m really glad that I was 2 when it was ended so that I never had to figure out how to reconcile my faith to a church that limited the priesthood based on race.

]]> By: Johnsenclan » Blog Archive » links http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18470 Johnsenclan » Blog Archive » links Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:57:21 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18470 [...] timeline of blacks and the priesthood the the Mormon [...] [...] timeline of blacks and the priesthood the the Mormon [...]

]]> By: Donald http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18458 Donald Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:28:35 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18458 Oh, and that little thing called "Tax Exempt Status" might be something to think about too. Oh, and that little thing called “Tax Exempt Status” might be something to think about too.

]]> By: Donald http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18457 Donald Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:26:32 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18457 Darker skin is from higher amounts of Melatonin, which evolves (you know, that pesky thing called evolution ?) from living closer to the equator where there is more sun on average. It has nothing to do with "The Curse Of Cain" or being from "The Loins Of Ham" or any other such nonsense. The fact that the church does not refute these absurd claims says a lot, no ? Darker skin is from higher amounts of Melatonin, which evolves (you know, that pesky thing called evolution ?) from living closer to the equator where there is more sun on average. It has nothing to do with “The Curse Of Cain” or being from “The Loins Of Ham” or any other such nonsense. The fact that the church does not refute these absurd claims says a lot, no ?

]]> By: jjackson http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18454 jjackson Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:46:35 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18454 I was 5 years old and remember my father, who served his mission in South Africa and (then) Rhodesia tossing me into the air and cheering. I can honestly say that I haven't, before or since, seen him any happier. I also remember his excitement while reading the church news and occassionaly recognizing black leaders who had been called to stake and other leadership positions. I lived in an extremely homogeneous local culture, where it's easy to have false notions about racial difference propagate. I think my dad's experiences and demeanor help immunize me, and I've always been grateful for that. This is one of those issues that I can't pretend to understand all the way through. I'm glad the ban was lifted, but disheartened that it ever existed. I hope I'll understand why someday. I was 5 years old and remember my father, who served his mission in South Africa and (then) Rhodesia tossing me into the air and cheering. I can honestly say that I haven’t, before or since, seen him any happier. I also remember his excitement while reading the church news and occassionaly recognizing black leaders who had been called to stake and other leadership positions.

I lived in an extremely homogeneous local culture, where it’s easy to have false notions about racial difference propagate. I think my dad’s experiences and demeanor help immunize me, and I’ve always been grateful for that.

This is one of those issues that I can’t pretend to understand all the way through. I’m glad the ban was lifted, but disheartened that it ever existed. I hope I’ll understand why someday.

]]> By: John Nilsson http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18452 John Nilsson Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:25:28 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18452 Zelph, That's exactly what I mean, or one example at least. Weigh in on the issue on my post today: Evidences and Reconciliations. Zelph,

That’s exactly what I mean, or one example at least. Weigh in on the issue on my post today: Evidences and Reconciliations.

]]> By: Valoel http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18449 Valoel Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:47:55 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18449 Step 2: Women. Restore their priesthood (priestesshood? is that a word?). I'm being serious. I personally think Joseph Smith had this in mind. It seems pretty plain to me from the temple that women have authority and divine power. Step 2: Women. Restore their priesthood (priestesshood? is that a word?). I’m being serious. I personally think Joseph Smith had this in mind. It seems pretty plain to me from the temple that women have authority and divine power.

]]> By: Zelph http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18447 Zelph Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:38:31 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18447 AdamF- This response is the racism that sadly still exists on a very subconscious level. Of course the ultimate irony is if the first humans were black, that means if there was ever a skin colored curse, it would be the white skin. That seems to make more sense anyways, because think about how many more skin problems white people have. LOL While on the topic, Jesus wasn't white either he was Middle Eastern. John Nilsson- I don't understand why women don't have the priesthood. Women never held priesthood leadership positions, but in the early days of the church, women held the priesthood and performed blessings. This was not just some obscure thing either. It is clear from many diaries that women performed priesthood blessings all the time under Joseph Smith. AdamF- This response is the racism that sadly still exists on a very subconscious level. Of course the ultimate irony is if the first humans were black, that means if there was ever a skin colored curse, it would be the white skin. That seems to make more sense anyways, because think about how many more skin problems white people have. LOL

While on the topic, Jesus wasn’t white either he was Middle Eastern.

John Nilsson- I don’t understand why women don’t have the priesthood. Women never held priesthood leadership positions, but in the early days of the church, women held the priesthood and performed blessings. This was not just some obscure thing either. It is clear from many diaries that women performed priesthood blessings all the time under Joseph Smith.

]]> By: Christopher http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18443 Christopher Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:08:59 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18443 Thanks for this. Thanks for this.

]]> By: David G. http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18440 David G. Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:43:32 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18440 Thanks for the summary, Jamie. Thanks for the summary, Jamie.

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18416 AdamF Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:21:14 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18416 Thanks for the summary--I knew about Able but did not know about his progeny... interesting! Zelph--"they probably looked much like Africans today" - That makes two of us that think that way! Sometimes I suggest this idea to friends and I always get a "hmmm..." kind of response, lol. Thanks for the summary–I knew about Able but did not know about his progeny… interesting!

Zelph–”they probably looked much like Africans today” - That makes two of us that think that way! Sometimes I suggest this idea to friends and I always get a “hmmm…” kind of response, lol.

]]> By: John Nilsson http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18413 John Nilsson Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:51:52 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18413 I was two years old when the 1978 revelation happened, but I remember hearing about it growing up and what a great thing it was. Which made me wonder why church policy was ever different. That took a lot of individual research to try to figure out and opened the door to wondering about a lot of other policies that seemed inhumane. I'm still here, though. I was two years old when the 1978 revelation happened, but I remember hearing about it growing up and what a great thing it was. Which made me wonder why church policy was ever different. That took a lot of individual research to try to figure out and opened the door to wondering about a lot of other policies that seemed inhumane. I’m still here, though.

]]> By: Stephen Wellington http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18401 Stephen Wellington Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:47:09 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18401 Loved it Jamie. Thank you. We have come a long way but still have a long journey ahead. Loved it Jamie. Thank you. We have come a long way but still have a long journey ahead.

]]> By: Zelph http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18393 Zelph Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:54:07 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18393 Very good time line. Let me know what year Adam and Eve from the temple videos will no longer be depicted as whites from Missouri. First humans came from Africa, so they probably looked much like Africans today. Very good time line. Let me know what year Adam and Eve from the temple videos will no longer be depicted as whites from Missouri. First humans came from Africa, so they probably looked much like Africans today.

]]> By: Ray http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-years-of-authorized-black-priesthood/#comment-18383 Ray Mon, 09 Jun 2008 05:10:40 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=552#comment-18383 Wonderful summary, Jamie. I was in central Utah, celebrating with my family and friends. At that point, I didn't know a single black person well enough to be a friend, but I was ecstatic. It truly was an amazing day. Wonderful summary, Jamie. I was in central Utah, celebrating with my family and friends. At that point, I didn’t know a single black person well enough to be a friend, but I was ecstatic. It truly was an amazing day.

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