Yes, I know you all like a good story, and just as most people they want to be noticed by others (15 minuets of fame)

But if you are really after the truth, seek the Holy Ghost, He will communicate in a perfect personal way the only one truth.

Good on ya Nick! Bloggs often give far too much credit to history that comes from opponents to Joseph Smith (and had he lived long enough, Emma would probably have ended up as his ex-wife and enemy).

But then you come up with #39?? You ought to repent and go back to church next Sunday

The Book of Mormon does not include the claim that the final product made by Mormon was “pure gold”. There are only three uses of that phrase in the entire book – one about the hilt of Laban’s sword, one about the seats of King Noah’s high priests and one about the original 24 plates of the record of the Jaredites (the one you incorrectly site as showing that the BofM was of pure gold). Since there ARE references to “pure gold”, it is worth pointing out all the other instances where “pure gold” is not the reference. Also, there is only one use of “pure gold” in the D&C, and that one deals with a vision.

This issue is dead and not going anywhere.

A person with integrity.

Really, wouldn’t most people have at least tried to adjust their attack, after seeing that?

More thoughts from a foolish old chestnut.

Mormon metallurgist Reed Putnam estimates that if the plates were made of pure gold, they would have probably weighed around 100 pounds. Still, this is not at all a reasonable weight that can be carried by even the strongest of New York farm boys. In perspective, that would be like carrying a bag of Portland cement under one’s arm.
The possibility of the plates being too heavy for Smith to carry has not escaped the notice of LDS apologists. To credit their founder with the ability to carry such a weight while running at “the top of his speed” would seem to conclude that Smith had no idea how heavy gold really was, thus making it appear that he fabricated this story.
Researchers for the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS) have attempted to come to Smith’s rescue. In a bulletin cover (number F-15) they provide an explanation for this anomaly. Entitled “Where the Gold Plates Gold?” it theorized that the plates were not made of pure gold at all. Rather, they theorize, that they were composed of an alloy called tumbaga. This Central American alloy, the article states, is made up of 8K gold and copper. In other words, the plates would have been primarily composed of 66% copper and only 33% gold.
The article debunks the notion that the plates could have been made of pure gold since “pure gold would be too soft to make useful plates.” However, this argument overlooks Mosiah 8:9 in the Book of Mormon that mentions 24 Jaredite plates that were “filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold.”
This argument also fails to take into account a photograph in earlier editions of the Book of Mormon that showed a “gold tablet found in Persia in 1961, dating to the time of Darius II (Fourth century B.C.), covered with cuneiform engravings.” The caption went on to say, “This tablet is about the size of the gold plates of the Book of Mormon.” In his book entitled An Approach to the Book of Mormon, Dr. Hugh Nibley also mentioned this parallel as evidence to the fact that Smith had plates of gold. If the plates deposited by Moroni were really an alloy made primarily of copper, why go to such lengths?
The FARMS’ article supports the tumbaga theory by referring to William Smith, Joseph’s brother, who was quoted in the Saints Herald (31, 1884, p. 644) as stating that the plates were a mixture of gold and copper. One can only imagine how William arrived at such a conclusion since there is no evidence to suggest that the plates were ever analyzed. Making William’s statement even less credible is the fact that he admitted to having never seen the plates. He claimed, “I was permitted to lift them as they laid in a pillow-case; but not to see them, as was contrary to the commands he had received. They weighed about sixty pounds according to the best of my judgment” (A New Witness for Christ in America 2:417). FARMS insists that tumbaga plates would have weighed only about 53 pounds. In other words, it would be like carrying a sack of redi-mix concrete.
Despite the effort from FARMS to change LDS history, it appears that the tumbaga theory is not being taken too seriously. As recently as May 15, 1999, the LDS Church News ran an article entitled “Hands-on opportunity.” Speaking of Joseph Smith, it read, “He had also been instructed by an angel, Moroni, who had met with him each year for four years. On his last visit, he was entrusted with plates of solid gold, which he had been translating by the power of the Spirit.”
Above from MRM

http://www.mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/how-heavy-were-those-gold-plates

It looks like a case the church overrides FARMS on this one!

For myself, I remember an elaborate ceremony of induction and authorization, involving, er, one or two emails and a password…

I guess that means we are all equally heretical.

I liked Nick’s comments. There is this terrible temptation these days to take accounts published after the principle players have passed from the scene and use those as definitive, without paying attention to agendas or variations.

Absolutely! One of my biggest “pet peeves” among certain historians is the odd habit of ignoring the first-hand accounts of the actual participants in early Mormon events. These “scholars” seem intent on rehashing what some other LDS historian has already decided about the events indeed.

Those of you who have gold wedding rings, anyone have even 18 caret gold? Probably not, yet how many of you state “I have an almost gold wedding ring” when it isn’t 24 caret? Odds are you’d even describe it as solid gold …

As to FAIR, last I knew it wasn’t a calling. Wasn’t a part of the Church either, just a group, like Mormon Matters, and no one calls and sets aside the permabloggers here.

The spiritual messages can be found or derived from new and old testament passages and themes. Someone in an earlier post likened King Benjamin’s sermon to a sermon from a methodist camp meeting sermon. I’m sorry but I don’t see anything new in the BOM that’s not found in the Bible or in the writings of reformers, theologians, etc..

Let me ask anyone here, is being a FAIR apologist a calling and if so who sets them apart?

As to whether physical objects were necessary or what the purpose was, it seems like the 16 stones to light the barges, or even the liahona. Why have scriptures at all? Why not just pray for all the direction we need? Why go to church and not just commune with nature? Religious touchstones seem to be important to us as physical beings.

#18 – “Gold plates” doesn’t necessarily mean “solid gold”. Again, assumptions are just that – assumptions, even when they appear in the Church News. That isn’t scripture – and it certainly isn’t considered “the revealed word of God.”

#16 – “So I come back again full circle and enjoy what I find as valuable while it’s valuable to me. Enjoy and live life. That is what I want. I am a religious person by nature, and i’ll take whatever wisdom I can find, wherever it can be found.”

Well said.

#15 – Amen. Right answers to wrong questions can be wrong answers.

The Weight of the Plates

Moroni told Joseph Smith that plates were of gold. Joseph described the plates as being 6 inches wide, 8 inches long, and something near 6 inches in thickness. Gold has certain interesting properties. It is a very heavy metal, its specific gravity being 19.3. It is very soft and malleable. Plates made of gold would therefore pack down very tightly when stacked. A little figuring will reveal to the reader that the plates weighed 200.81 pounds or thereabouts!

Mormon metallurgist Reed Putnam estimates that if the plates were made of pure gold, they would have probably weighed around 100 pounds. Still, this is not at all a reasonable weight that can be carried by even the strongest of New York farm boys. In perspective, that would be like carrying a bag of Portland cement under one’s arm.

Researchers for the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS) have attempted to come to the prophets rescue. In a bulletin cover (number F-15) they provide an explanation for this anomaly. Entitled “Where the Gold Plates Gold?” it theorized that the plates were not made of pure gold at all. Rather, they theorize, that they were composed of an alloy called tumbaga. This Central American alloy, the article states, is made up of 8K gold and copper. In other words, the plates would have been primarily composed of 66% copper and only 33% gold.

Maybe deity performed a miracle, whereby the gold plates actually weighed only 1/5th of what they ordinarily would have, so that others would have to exercise faith that they existed, and the wicked could be fooled into unbelief.