Comments on: Proof Texting for Fun and Prophet

By: gnashingofteeth

gnashingofteeth — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:31:00 +0000

“History can be as misleading as gossip and much more difficult–often impossible–to verify.”

Now why is this? What a strange idea… Can’t we just pray to know? I mean… let’s see here. What is something that allegedly occurred that we are encouraged to pray about?

Oh wait, whether or not Joseph Smith really was a prophet.

The truthfulness of the BOM.

But, of course, if you get any answer besides “yes” then we can know without a doubt, that you must be atuned to the temptations of the devil, and that you are too steeped in sin to hear the spirit attest to its truthfulness.

There’s only one thing to do; Repent.

Luckily there is a 19-year old boy with a crew cut who is just shaking with anticipation to be the one to baptize you for a remission of your sins. Time to start exercising that Faith! You’ll get your answer on the other end, after the trial of your faith. You weren’t REALLY going to tempt God to just GIVE you an answer without requiring you to first believe in his one true church upon the earth, were you?

By: Lolwut?

Lolwut? — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:43:02 +0000

Protestants dismiss the accusations of prooftexting Ephesians 2:8-9 as Straw man fallacy, noting that other verses (Romans 3:26, Philippians 1:29, Romans 3:28, 1 Corinthians 12:3, etc.) carry similar messages and that these themes are more fully developed throughout the New Testament, notably in Paul’s Epistles to the the Romans, the Galatians, the Ephesians and the Hebrews.

By: Jared

Jared — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:30:53 +0000

Jeff–good material. Thanks

By: Mormon Heretic

Mormon Heretic — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:56:04 +0000

Prooftexting. I had never heard of the term before, but I am greatly familiar with its’ use, and misuse. Thanks for increasing my vocabulary!!!

By: James Ballou

James Ballou — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:31:49 +0000

Jeff,

This is one of the best posts that I have ever read on this site or any. Thoughtful, insightful, poignant and brief. All of the things I could do with more of in my writing. I didn’t realize there was a name for this tactic although I have been victim to and a practitioner of proof texting on many occasions. This kind of article will help me improve the discourse that I engage in on the internet. Kudos!

One suggestion that I would make is that we have a special icon like that is a flag with a P on it so we can call people on Proof Texting.

By: mormonmagmeister

mormonmagmeister — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:08:51 +0000

Here’s one I’ve heard recently from evangelicals to warn people not to take the “Book of Mormon challenge.” Jeremiah 17:9: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” So, the logic goes, we shouldn’t trust that the Spirit will confirm the truth to our hearts because “the heart is deceitful.” Interesting.

Anyway, I like the way you’ve pointed out that critics, ironically, use General Authority quotes as proof texts to try to show that the Church is racist, intolerant, anti-intellectual, and so on. It’s exactly what they do. Or, at least the intellectually dishonest ones do.

By: Jeff Spector

Jeff Spector — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:35:55 +0000

Hawk,

100% correct on that one. All things considered, marriage is hard enough when the two people are pretty much from the same basic characteristics. Throw in a major difference and it just makes it that much more challenging. I think that is the heart of that quote.

By: hawkgrrrl

hawkgrrrl — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:29:13 +0000

Jeff – I know you were asking David H that question, but frankly, I’ve heard that quote many times before, and the social and economic was the part I always heard or that I personally focused on (I’m sure I would have heard it differently if Denzel Washington was in my ward), and I think there is a lot of truth to it. How many marriages fail due to money – usually differing expectations and disciplines? Lots.

By: Jeff Spector

Jeff Spector — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:52:20 +0000

#3 – While you picked up on the inter-racial marriage portion of the quote (which, I might add, was not the point of the post), you didn’t comment on the equal “recommendation on social, economic and educational background.” is that, in your mind equal to the first “recommendation?

By: hawkgrrrl

hawkgrrrl — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:18:54 +0000

#3 – well, I took that talk to mean that passive aggressive twits are no big loss. However, in general, those who are TBM (me included) don’t consider it an undue hardship to follow counsel, even if it’s trivial like earrings. We’re just grateful for the Savior being willing to overlook our major flaws. Why add defiance over something silly to the list of flaws? As to the marital advice, it should always be a matter of prayer anyway. No one who feels right about their interracial relationship lasting should hold back due to that statement alone.

By: hawkgrrrl

hawkgrrrl — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:51:25 +0000

No takers on #2? That was Abraham Lincoln, the great emancipator.

By: DavidH

DavidH — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:28:48 +0000

I am not sure that most strict Mormons would agree that the use of the word “recommend”, relating to discouragement of interracial marriage, diminishes the force of the “counsel.” The Church also uses the words “encourage” and “discourage” with respect to its “counsel” on earrings and tattoos and body piercing, and many strict Mormons take that to have the force of law (even an apostle gave a talk that some people interpret to mean that good Mormon males should not consider marrying a woman with more than one earring).

By: Hawkgrrrl

Hawkgrrrl — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:49:13 +0000

Ooh, I want to play, too! Here’s one:

“[a black] is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color — perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments.”

Anyone want to guess who said it?

By: Stephen M (Ethesis)

Stephen M (Ethesis) — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:49:12 +0000

Neat. I’ve been wanting to have a post on proof texting on the blog. Thank you for doing it!