But fact of the matter is, I don’t really know if this would retain the youth any better – I just think they would respond with more enthusiasm to these kinds of opportunities, than to the traditional youth conferences, etc.

I don’t think you could be more right on.

As you say yourself, the youth are already doing service, empowering others and being empowered, outside of the Church, and you say you see this as you do service outside of the Church. By their works ye shall know them! It sounds to me like you’re in close quarters to the true body of Christ with the youth of these secular mission trips.

I could certainly see the Church transforming itself into a truly revolutionary organization, but when this happens (and I think it will happen [again]) it will be catalyzed by the youth and the priests, and not by the elders and the fathers.

We are rebuilding your world around you. It is a slow process at the moment, but these inter-tubes are making it easier. It will probably not gain much haste until after some apocalyptic cataclysm science calls “punctuated equilibrium”. But the seeds are sown, and the eventual outcome is inevitable.

In the mean time, you can thank the hackers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL

(Next week’s lesson will be on the Law of Consecration in relation to software, intellectual property, copyright, and financial markets.)

things like equality of opportunity worldwide, breaking down cultural barriers, global warming, the energy crisis.

The thing is, these aren’t the concerns of our generation… It’s sad, I know, that the disparity is this great, but these are the concerns manufactured by The Media(tm) in an attempt to mask and replace what is really the root of the problems. The idealism of the young generation is the result of their open eyes and ears, not media manipulation, and they have more to say than many of us are willing to hear… But you need not wait long. They are coming, and they will be heard.

Must have been twenty years ago or more now. Struck me, so I remembered it.

17. Derek, I quite agree with your assessment of who is reproducing and who is not – it rather frightens me.

In general I see young people as actually being extremely idealistic and really wanting to make a difference in the world. I truly believe if the church could update its ideas on what is important to the young and activate their idealism it would have a huge impact. By this I mean – start emphasizing more of the things that the young generation sees as important – things like equality of opportunity worldwide, breaking down cultural barriers, global warming, the energy crisis.

My idea, and I know this has been brought up elsewhere, is that the church begin promoting humanitarian/ecological missions for the youth in addition to proselytising missions, that really allow them to feel they are making a difference and empower their creativity. The reason I feel this would be successful, is I take humanitarian missions to Honduras every year, and many of those who go are late teens/early 20′s. They pay their own way, are willing to take time off work and school, work incredibly hard before and during the trips, and come back amazingly energized and changed. They tend to go year after year, and are very devoted to the people and communities they serve. There is nothing like meaningful, Christlike service to energize and empower the young and old – I think we are missing a lot of opportunity here by emphasizing so much conversion as opposed to selfless service with no ulterior motive. It is not that I do not understand why the church focuses so much on conversion, I just don’t think it is working all that well in the world right now. But fact of the matter is, I don’t really know if this would retain the youth any better – I just think they would respond with more enthusiasm to these kinds of opportunities, than to the traditional youth conferences, etc.

But I do feel we could be more successful at retention if we stripped away things that are not core and got back to basics. I would not go so far as to lose a sense of uniqueness or of exclusivity, both of which are vital to weathering the storm, IMO.

Steve, my problem with that **as it relates to this post** is that it appears most churches actually don’t do a much better job of it than we do when dealing with YSA. I would love to see stats for the other large denominations, but if the SBC is any indication . . .

Sorry, but many churches do a much better job of sinner retention than we do.

Fwiw, I would have no problem with units in areas with a high concentration of doctors counting them in the regular numbers weekly if all they can do is attend monthly – and if they actually do attend monthly. If they are attending every week they are able to do so, I would count them as “active”. (and I would apply that to anyone who also can’t attend weekly but attends every time possible) That’s just me, perhaps, but it seems to fit the spirit of the law.

So I am always skeptical as to the accuracy of the “active members” number reported.

My POV is that the SBC/LDS activity problems are probably endemic to all religions these days

I think you’re right, there is something about the younger generation these days.

Personally, I think it’s because we’re in the stage when the righteous are called out of the world just before the fall of Babylon (Rev. 18:1-7). Just remember that because of the plagues and pestilences which are about to befall you, it is better that your younger generations remove themselves from the world and the (corrupt) Church, so that they are spared the judgments and punishments that are upon you.

We also seem to be in a time when the young women do not want to get pregnant and bear children (“But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!”, etc.).

I suppose They(tm) say that teen pregnancy is epidemic, and the Church is even making lame videos urging single mothers to give their “accidental” children away in adoption to be sealed to other families (woe indeed!), but the world I live in seems different from the propaganda.

Most of my female peers intend either to never give birth and raise families or they seem to be waiting for the their 30s. There is lots of talk about the world already being too overpopulated and not needing to bring more people down here, that down here it is torturous and therefore it’s immoral to bring children here, etc.

Or maybe what I’m seeing is the Idiocracy Effect(tm): those who should be breeding are not (i.e., the educated), and those who shouldn’t be breeding are (i.e., the uneducated), having the net effect of dumbing down society. 500 more years of this general trend should be interesting!

Where Have All the Young Women Gone

Whether or not your assertion is correct, and I don’t think it is relative to self-identification among those who do not attend other religious worship services regularly, how is this unique to Mormonism? From my own observations and studies, it appears that all major Christian denominations are losing active membership – and it is happening particularly among the young single adult populations for all.

One more point: Part of the first article focuses specifically on the issue of the SBC not excommunicating those who have removed themselves from the SBC and live lives in active opposition to its teachings. It is easy to justify this lack of action by looking at the fallout when the Mormon Church does it, but the argument by those inside the SBC who are leading the “regenerative Christian” movement are pushing for more proactive designation of those who do not prove their faith through their actions – and excommunicating them.

This is fascinating to me. Absolutely fascinating.

My POV is that the SBC/LDS activity problems are probably endemic to all religions these days (with the possible exception of Islam), due to societal influences, scientific influences (ie evolution), the internet, etc. I look at declining activity rates as a large social/cultural trend which is probably not reversible by any church(es) attempts to bolster programs or make institutional changes. I could be wrong and am happy to have rebuttals here.

Todd, if you still are reading this thread, can you enlighten us?

(I would exempt from all discussions of “membership”, simply out of personal bias, estimates based on “people saved” by evangelical revival meetings. I have to draw my line to make the distinction outlined in the SBC article – regular attendance at worship services. To me, that shows a degree of dedication and commitment that would warrant being classified as a member.)

For the lastest in Baptist theologies currently evolving in Israel, see:

http://www.kkcj.org/teaching/israel-where-does-your-nation-stand

“members who attend Priesthood or Relief Society meetings but not Sacrament Meeting” Who are these nut jobs?

Yeah, seems like it would be the other way around in most cases.

As for Baptists, they’ve always been the most virulently anti-Mormon denomination, at least from my experience in rural KCMO. Them and the nondenominationalists, which movement is, I think, just a guerrilla-tactic and front-group of the Southern Baptist Convention (or an off-shoot of the Southern Baptist Convention, a pseudo-reformation within the system of Baptist conventions).

Since nondenominationalism is just another denomination, maybe it’s time we call them by their real name: Protestant-protestant.

Nondenominationalism is certainly a strictly Baptist movement, and since these churches are unaffiliated with any convention, and since most of the growth within Christendom in recent years has been through “born again” nondenominationalist conversions to nondenominationalist churches, I expect the “Baptist” figures would be much more awe-inspiring if somehow these non-affiliated “Baptist” churches could be numbered.

I have a close SBC friend that is currently being brainwashed at a moshav/kibbutz in Israel. Now her language involves a lot of talk about “believers”, which is a new buzzword for her. In the past, we’ve had lengthy discussions about the necessity or meaning of full-immersion baptism (one of the few doctrines we share with them), the corporeal resurrection and the final judgment, etc. In all these things, she knew little to nothing of such fundamentally Christian concepts and she was very unsure if they had any importance at all. The only thing she seemed to be sure about was “personal relationship with Jesus” and “Jesus in your heart”, which I don’t mean to dog on those ideas, but that was the extent of her education/indoctrination. The Baptist churches, even those aligned with the various conventions, have done a very horrible job teaching their “believers” the most simple and fundamental of Christian doctrines.

Cliff – anyone more ‘in the know’ should feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I recall “Baptist” covers a wide variety of groups. Leadership is focused on the local congregation level. Baptism is not always required, and membership can be transferred into some congregations based on ‘compatible protestant faiths’ as deemed by the local congregation. SBC may be stricter than this; I am speaking of Baptists more generally. Again, feel free to correct if anyone is aware I’m wrong.