There is a book I’ve just begun reading which takes Joseph’s encounter with death as the motive force for his search for God and the development of the LDS Church. It’s called “The Mormon Culture of Salvation” by Douglas J. Davies, a British scholar of religion at the University of Uppsala. It’s quite fascinating. He argues that Mormons are obsessed not with DEATH, but with the DEAD, a useful distinction to make. It robs death of its sheer terror and domesticates it a bit.

On the other hand, when I think about the times when I’ve decided to shut up and REALLY listen, I have been amazed by how much people will say. And Stephen M (Ethesis), I disagree: it is amazingly easy to mess up listening. All you have to do is open your mouth. People are remarkably poor at listening to others, and I think our current political debates are proof of this. Reading over internet forums shows a similar problem: we don’t really read each other’s comments–we note the general content then start composing our own retort to what we want the to have said.

Listening and reading the actual content of a post is a nearly dead set of skills (and I’m not sure the latter was EVER alive). I grieve for their passing, for we are all poorer without them, and when they are gone, this society will die also, for civilization is dependent on them in no small degree (the ability to communicate being that foundation on which society thrives, and these are essential portions of communication in my view).

Sorry for the doom and gloom. That’s my mood this morning.

Why not Hawkboy? A) How many men want to be called boys? B) Back in the comics of my youth, Hawkgirl was married to Hawkman. There was no Hawkboy that I know of.

I’ve never been hit too close to home with grief, having lost one grandparent when I was only 3 and the others when they were 85, 90, and 88. IMO, no grief necessary, just separation. I haven’t lost any closer relatives or a close friend. Perhaps because of my lack of personal grief experience, I still find myself uncomfortable in situations where I visit those who are grieving, whether a viewing, funeral, or as part of a church calling. How many times have they already heard that someone is sorry for their loss? I’d do well to ignore the discomfort, close my mouth and just listen.

http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4693

No – at least not in my opinion. I am in the “prophets often receive revelation on things about which they care deeply”, but I don’t think they experience the death of others in order to learn about death. It’s too easy to take that and turn it into “God killed so-and-so to teach me something”. I’m positive that’s not what you meant, hawk, but I know people inside and outside the Church (more outside, frankly) who think that way.

The other thing I thought was interesting about this lesson is how much death JS encountered. A skeptic would say he created doctrines to give him comfort in his grief. A believer would say it seems to have influenced which doctrines he asked about that then became the foundation of the gospel (family sealings, temples, eternal progression, baptism for the dead, etc.). Or one could go so far as to wonder – did he have those experiences so that he would ask about those things so that those would become foundational principles?

Joseph was well acquainted with death and handled it well. With what we know as Latter-day Saints, death should be easier to handle. not easy, but easier. that has been my own experience.

Comforting those in need of comfort is very often just a matter of listening to them and saying absolutely nothing. Listening is a dying art, and we need to save it.

Not only that, but it is hard to screw up listening quietly. I’d also note that grief is not a time to get competitive with people.

As for grief and the plan of redemption, “Jesus wept” refers to the death of Lazarus, whom he was about to raise from the dead. If Christ felt sorrow, we can too.

But, from the perspective of someone who has lived ten thousand years, a period of separation of only fifty or sixty years really is short, as is the distance from one side of the veil to the other. On the other hand, I can barely take it when I’ve a child at college or at camp for a week.

Well done post.

Benjamin O. is wise. I too have noticed this in some who have lost a loved one. They don’t want to talk about it at the time. They just want to get through the funeral. Sometimes, it’s best to just be there and to continue to be nearby over time. When they are ready, you will be there for them.

What I have learned, however, is that some people do not wish to be comforted. They do not want you to say anything to offer words of comfort. They want you to listen. Say nothing, do nothing, then simply say, “If you ever want to talk about it some more, I’m here for you.” That’s it.

Because they need to air their anger and grief to a noncritical audience that isn’t trying to make them forget the grief and pain. Comforting those in need of comfort is very often just a matter of listening to them and saying absolutely nothing. Listening is a dying art, and we need to save it.