<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Evidences and Reconciliations 8/11/08</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/</link>
	<description>A weekly podcast exploring Mormon culture and current events.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:06:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: JustforQuix</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28198</link>
		<dc:creator>JustforQuix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28198</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Ray. If I appeared critical of BIV&#039;s comment I didn&#039;t intend to. I read it that the Israelites were performing their festivals with the wrong spiritual intent, not the wrong process, form, wording, tradition, authority or whatever. Since &quot;wrong&quot; didn&#039;t seem as precise a word, I just tried to add to the nuance by blathering on about intent. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Ray. If I appeared critical of BIV&#8217;s comment I didn&#8217;t intend to. I read it that the Israelites were performing their festivals with the wrong spiritual intent, not the wrong process, form, wording, tradition, authority or whatever. Since &#8220;wrong&#8221; didn&#8217;t seem as precise a word, I just tried to add to the nuance by blathering on about intent. <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28196</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28196</guid>
		<description>Thanks for saying it in that way, JfQ.  I *think* that&#039;s what BiV meant (at least, that&#039;s how I took it), but it&#039;s good to have the added perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for saying it in that way, JfQ.  I *think* that&#8217;s what BiV meant (at least, that&#8217;s how I took it), but it&#8217;s good to have the added perspective.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Just for Quix</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28190</link>
		<dc:creator>Just for Quix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28190</guid>
		<description>Isaiah was a prophet of the same time as Amos. In Isaiah 1 we see the parallel issue raised that the Lord does not wish to receive the sacrifices and festivals. The people are equated with whoremongers of the type of wickedness as Sodom and Gomorrah because they are not obedient. They were not seeking justice, taking care of orphans and widows, etc. This is important because it helps us frame the import of the Levitical law. It wasn&#039;t unimportant per se, but it was not foundational to bringing about righteousness by virtue of it. Amos and Isaiah&#039;s criticism begs the teachings on pure religion of James, and teachings about righteousness by Paul. It also recalls Samuel’s teachings that “obedience is greater than sacrifice.”

I don&#039;t see the issue is that the people were wrongly performing the ceremony, per se, but that ceremony, tradition and religious festival had become culturally ensnared instead of functioning as an outward symbol of an inward commitment. Righteousness was not being seen as something God bestows, but something that is gained by following the steps of tradition. Ceremony was no longer a type, a symbol, a parable of God&#039;s relationship with and redemption for mankind; it had become a substitute for a relationship that is only found through living pure religion. Had tradition of the Law overextended its place as a cultural marker of the only nation who worshipped YaHWeH? Had tradition become the vine instead of the fruit of the true vine?

I see the New Testament as a clearer lens through which to view this issue that Amos (and Isaiah) raises more so than the chosen D&amp;C one. However, I would agree that if one is pursuing one&#039;s culturally religious walk of obedience, tradition and loyalty as a symbol of an inward commitment that recognizes righteousness is granted by God, not by our merit of following said things with exactness, and that we are hearkening foundationally to the imperatives of pure religion, then the D&amp;C scripture can be better harmonized. Otherwise, it is less clear, and could be interpreted to equate righteousness with legalistic exactness to sacraments and oblations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isaiah was a prophet of the same time as Amos. In Isaiah 1 we see the parallel issue raised that the Lord does not wish to receive the sacrifices and festivals. The people are equated with whoremongers of the type of wickedness as Sodom and Gomorrah because they are not obedient. They were not seeking justice, taking care of orphans and widows, etc. This is important because it helps us frame the import of the Levitical law. It wasn&#8217;t unimportant per se, but it was not foundational to bringing about righteousness by virtue of it. Amos and Isaiah&#8217;s criticism begs the teachings on pure religion of James, and teachings about righteousness by Paul. It also recalls Samuel’s teachings that “obedience is greater than sacrifice.”</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see the issue is that the people were wrongly performing the ceremony, per se, but that ceremony, tradition and religious festival had become culturally ensnared instead of functioning as an outward symbol of an inward commitment. Righteousness was not being seen as something God bestows, but something that is gained by following the steps of tradition. Ceremony was no longer a type, a symbol, a parable of God&#8217;s relationship with and redemption for mankind; it had become a substitute for a relationship that is only found through living pure religion. Had tradition of the Law overextended its place as a cultural marker of the only nation who worshipped YaHWeH? Had tradition become the vine instead of the fruit of the true vine?</p>
<p>I see the New Testament as a clearer lens through which to view this issue that Amos (and Isaiah) raises more so than the chosen D&amp;C one. However, I would agree that if one is pursuing one&#8217;s culturally religious walk of obedience, tradition and loyalty as a symbol of an inward commitment that recognizes righteousness is granted by God, not by our merit of following said things with exactness, and that we are hearkening foundationally to the imperatives of pure religion, then the D&amp;C scripture can be better harmonized. Otherwise, it is less clear, and could be interpreted to equate righteousness with legalistic exactness to sacraments and oblations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28087</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28087</guid>
		<description>Hawk beat me to it.  I really like how you put that, BiV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hawk beat me to it.  I really like how you put that, BiV.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28084</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 03:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28084</guid>
		<description>BiV - well said!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BiV &#8211; well said!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bored in Vernal</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28079</link>
		<dc:creator>Bored in Vernal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28079</guid>
		<description>I think righteousness reconciles these two scriptures.  The reason the Lord hates the assemblies and the offerings in Amos and Isaiah is that they are being wrongly performed.  I don&#039;t think the goal is to stop gathering or offering, but to do them righteously, as is outlined in D&amp;C 59.  

I loved the song on the link:  
&lt;blockquote&gt;When I was a boy, each week 
On Sunday, we would go to church 
And pay attention to the priest 
As he would read the Holy Word. 
And consecrate the holy bread 
And everyone would kneel and bow 
Today the only difference is 
Everything is holy now....

This morning outside I stood 
And saw a little red-winged bird 
Shining like a burning bush 
Singing like a scripture verse 
It made me want to bow my head
and I remember when church let out
how things have changed since then,
everything is holy now. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think we need to make all of our services and everything we do holy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think righteousness reconciles these two scriptures.  The reason the Lord hates the assemblies and the offerings in Amos and Isaiah is that they are being wrongly performed.  I don&#8217;t think the goal is to stop gathering or offering, but to do them righteously, as is outlined in D&amp;C 59.  </p>
<p>I loved the song on the link:  </p>
<blockquote><p>When I was a boy, each week<br />
On Sunday, we would go to church<br />
And pay attention to the priest<br />
As he would read the Holy Word.<br />
And consecrate the holy bread<br />
And everyone would kneel and bow<br />
Today the only difference is<br />
Everything is holy now&#8230;.</p>
<p>This morning outside I stood<br />
And saw a little red-winged bird<br />
Shining like a burning bush<br />
Singing like a scripture verse<br />
It made me want to bow my head<br />
and I remember when church let out<br />
how things have changed since then,<br />
everything is holy now. </p></blockquote>
<p>I think we need to make all of our services and everything we do holy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Callahan</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28075</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Callahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28075</guid>
		<description>Taco salad casserole.  8-layer jello.  Meatballs.

Some fun times.  The memories linger  . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taco salad casserole.  8-layer jello.  Meatballs.</p>
<p>Some fun times.  The memories linger  . . .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28058</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28058</guid>
		<description>Linger-longers rock - at least those that don&#039;t include burnt offerings.  Chile, bean casseroles, 46 different desserts - now that&#039;s a feast worth having.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linger-longers rock &#8211; at least those that don&#8217;t include burnt offerings.  Chile, bean casseroles, 46 different desserts &#8211; now that&#8217;s a feast worth having.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28055</link>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28055</guid>
		<description>At the very least!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the very least!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/11/evidences-and-reconciliations-81108/#comment-28050</link>
		<dc:creator>hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=927#comment-28050</guid>
		<description>So, I guess &quot;linger-longers&quot; are out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I guess &#8220;linger-longers&#8221; are out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

