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	<title>Comments on: “God Spared My Life” or Did He?</title>
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		<title>By: Valoel</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28823</link>
		<dc:creator>Valoel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28823</guid>
		<description>Better off Dead?  All I can say is watch out for the paperboy seeking his 2 dollars :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better off Dead?  All I can say is watch out for the paperboy seeking his 2 dollars <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Spector</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28818</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Spector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28818</guid>
		<description>Ray,

&quot;We all have heard of people who kill themselves or their children or others so that they can go to Heaven - specifically because of the belief that Heaven really is more glorious than we can comprehend. Such a justification was behind the torture of the Inquisition - coercing people into “confessions” to cleanse their souls and allow them to be accepted into Heaven.&#039;

Forcing someone into the next life cannot possible have a positive reward attached to it. That said, I think this is a hard question to answer. We always heard that oft spoke phrase, &quot;he/she is in a better place.&quot;  Yet, we are commanded (I guess) to find and obtain joy in THIS life.

We really know so little about the next life, it is hard to have a strong desire to leave this one, which we are familiar with. I suppose it is akin to leaving the pre-mortal life for this one as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray,</p>
<p>&#8220;We all have heard of people who kill themselves or their children or others so that they can go to Heaven &#8211; specifically because of the belief that Heaven really is more glorious than we can comprehend. Such a justification was behind the torture of the Inquisition &#8211; coercing people into “confessions” to cleanse their souls and allow them to be accepted into Heaven.&#8217;</p>
<p>Forcing someone into the next life cannot possible have a positive reward attached to it. That said, I think this is a hard question to answer. We always heard that oft spoke phrase, &#8220;he/she is in a better place.&#8221;  Yet, we are commanded (I guess) to find and obtain joy in THIS life.</p>
<p>We really know so little about the next life, it is hard to have a strong desire to leave this one, which we are familiar with. I suppose it is akin to leaving the pre-mortal life for this one as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28814</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28814</guid>
		<description>Jeff, according to Mormon theology, we are - unless we qualify for Outer Darkness, that is.  :)  

That is a much more difficult question, however, for religion in general.  Without an underlying purpose for this life that includes negative repercussions in a future life for &quot;incorrect&quot; actions in this life, what keeps someone from intentionally leaving this life in order to get to the next one?  Conversely, does a belief in a better life to come diminish the tenacity with which we cling to this one?  If so, is that a good or bad thing relative to the supposed purpose of this life to learn and grow?  

We all have heard of people who kill themselves or their children or others so that they can go to Heaven - specifically because of the belief that Heaven really is more glorious than we can comprehend.  Such a justification was behind the torture of the Inquisition - coercing people into &quot;confessions&quot; to cleanse their souls and allow them to be accepted into Heaven.  

This really is a two-edged sword, but I personally believe that we can&#039;t blame the religious construct for someone&#039;s actions relative to life and death - since many others share that same construct and make radically different decisions.  Ultimately, it is the individual, not the theology, that drives actions, imo.  That&#039;s why I support people in their efforts to find religious philosophies that help them be constructive and happy and positive and growing in this life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, according to Mormon theology, we are &#8211; unless we qualify for Outer Darkness, that is.  <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>That is a much more difficult question, however, for religion in general.  Without an underlying purpose for this life that includes negative repercussions in a future life for &#8220;incorrect&#8221; actions in this life, what keeps someone from intentionally leaving this life in order to get to the next one?  Conversely, does a belief in a better life to come diminish the tenacity with which we cling to this one?  If so, is that a good or bad thing relative to the supposed purpose of this life to learn and grow?  </p>
<p>We all have heard of people who kill themselves or their children or others so that they can go to Heaven &#8211; specifically because of the belief that Heaven really is more glorious than we can comprehend.  Such a justification was behind the torture of the Inquisition &#8211; coercing people into &#8220;confessions&#8221; to cleanse their souls and allow them to be accepted into Heaven.  </p>
<p>This really is a two-edged sword, but I personally believe that we can&#8217;t blame the religious construct for someone&#8217;s actions relative to life and death &#8211; since many others share that same construct and make radically different decisions.  Ultimately, it is the individual, not the theology, that drives actions, imo.  That&#8217;s why I support people in their efforts to find religious philosophies that help them be constructive and happy and positive and growing in this life.</p>
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		<title>By: Hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28813</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28813</guid>
		<description>Jeff - I&#039;m not looking for an exit any time soon.  If I were, I&#039;d be eating a lot more cookies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; I&#8217;m not looking for an exit any time soon.  If I were, I&#8217;d be eating a lot more cookies!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Spector</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28812</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Spector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28812</guid>
		<description>Ok, fine. Get me on a technicality. :) Shall I rephrase to say, Are we better off passing on to the next life?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, fine. Get me on a technicality. <img src='http://mormonmatters.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Shall I rephrase to say, Are we better off passing on to the next life?</p>
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		<title>By: Hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28803</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28803</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ray&#039;s sentiment.  We never really &quot;die&quot; anyway, we just keep on living.  That spirit with which we leave this life is the one we take to the next.  So, we should continue to learn as much as we can at every stage of life (and after life).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ray&#8217;s sentiment.  We never really &#8220;die&#8221; anyway, we just keep on living.  That spirit with which we leave this life is the one we take to the next.  So, we should continue to learn as much as we can at every stage of life (and after life).</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Stevenson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28799</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Stevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28799</guid>
		<description>This issue actually touches on how we fundamentally view blessings.  Are we to accept, as an independent and fundamental truth, D&amp;C 130:11-12 re: how obedience and (if that verse is viewed in isolation) obedience alone brings blessings? Must we then conclude that those who are spared from disaster were &quot;blessed&quot;?  They say they were...and it is QUITE presumptuous of anyone living to contradict them.  Yet the well worn &quot;bad things happen to great people&quot; mantra is still a major strain of LDS thought. How to reconcile?

I would propose a rather postmodern bent to the concept of blessing/cursing.  If we view blessings as primarily (and often exclusively) as a &quot;state of mind,&quot; then it allows us a way out of this conundrum.  When we receive the blessings of a life lived longer than expected (as I have on several occasions when I really should have seen my &quot;final transfer&quot; on the &quot;transfer board&quot; in the sky), the blessing is not the longer life itself but the perception that longer life is a blessing.  This fits into the general program because the perception of increased longevity is really the key element to a person&#039;s discipleship.  Whether it is indeed or not is a moot point.  And God knows it. Pres. Hinckley so noted that our actions are largely guided by our perceptions; therefore, it would reasonably follow that Heavenly Father would primarily operate through them.  Similarly , Elder Maxwell noted that when individuals call certain events faith-promoting, these events are &quot;symptoms&quot; of faith, not generators of it.  Interesting indeed...are these blessings of increased &quot;spiritual sight&quot; rather than actual substance?

To me, this approach helps us out of many difficult questions as to whether the righteous are blessed with wealth, life, or anything else.  It helps account for why those considered &quot;wicked&quot; might still enjoy the so-called &quot;blessings&quot; of righteousness.  To me, the wicked have not received the real blessings, for they have not come closer to God/received the proper mindset from the things/&quot;blessings&quot; they receive. In the end, because they have not sought after this mindset, they will realize that their blessings were simply quirks of a fallen world that happened to work in their favor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This issue actually touches on how we fundamentally view blessings.  Are we to accept, as an independent and fundamental truth, D&amp;C 130:11-12 re: how obedience and (if that verse is viewed in isolation) obedience alone brings blessings? Must we then conclude that those who are spared from disaster were &#8220;blessed&#8221;?  They say they were&#8230;and it is QUITE presumptuous of anyone living to contradict them.  Yet the well worn &#8220;bad things happen to great people&#8221; mantra is still a major strain of LDS thought. How to reconcile?</p>
<p>I would propose a rather postmodern bent to the concept of blessing/cursing.  If we view blessings as primarily (and often exclusively) as a &#8220;state of mind,&#8221; then it allows us a way out of this conundrum.  When we receive the blessings of a life lived longer than expected (as I have on several occasions when I really should have seen my &#8220;final transfer&#8221; on the &#8220;transfer board&#8221; in the sky), the blessing is not the longer life itself but the perception that longer life is a blessing.  This fits into the general program because the perception of increased longevity is really the key element to a person&#8217;s discipleship.  Whether it is indeed or not is a moot point.  And God knows it. Pres. Hinckley so noted that our actions are largely guided by our perceptions; therefore, it would reasonably follow that Heavenly Father would primarily operate through them.  Similarly , Elder Maxwell noted that when individuals call certain events faith-promoting, these events are &#8220;symptoms&#8221; of faith, not generators of it.  Interesting indeed&#8230;are these blessings of increased &#8220;spiritual sight&#8221; rather than actual substance?</p>
<p>To me, this approach helps us out of many difficult questions as to whether the righteous are blessed with wealth, life, or anything else.  It helps account for why those considered &#8220;wicked&#8221; might still enjoy the so-called &#8220;blessings&#8221; of righteousness.  To me, the wicked have not received the real blessings, for they have not come closer to God/received the proper mindset from the things/&#8221;blessings&#8221; they receive. In the end, because they have not sought after this mindset, they will realize that their blessings were simply quirks of a fallen world that happened to work in their favor.</p>
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		<title>By: The Right Trousers</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28682</link>
		<dc:creator>The Right Trousers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28682</guid>
		<description>I keep thinking of Job, which seems to exist specifically to teach that God lets bad things happen to good folks and to show how they should react. I also keep thinking of Ecclesiastes. &quot;Under the sun&quot; we&#039;re all subject to time and chance, except for those exceptional times when we get an intervention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep thinking of Job, which seems to exist specifically to teach that God lets bad things happen to good folks and to show how they should react. I also keep thinking of Ecclesiastes. &#8220;Under the sun&#8221; we&#8217;re all subject to time and chance, except for those exceptional times when we get an intervention.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Spector</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28645</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Spector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28645</guid>
		<description>Ray,

&quot;Let God decide whether or not my appointed time has come; in the meantime, I will focus on sticking around as long as possible and continuing to learn in this stage of life.&quot;

I agree with the later part of your statement, because I don&#039;t think that God decides to have a drunk driver make a bad choice which leads to a death of an innocent person. In fact, I tend more toward Pres. Kimball&#039;s point that He permits more than He directs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray,</p>
<p>&#8220;Let God decide whether or not my appointed time has come; in the meantime, I will focus on sticking around as long as possible and continuing to learn in this stage of life.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with the later part of your statement, because I don&#8217;t think that God decides to have a drunk driver make a bad choice which leads to a death of an innocent person. In fact, I tend more toward Pres. Kimball&#8217;s point that He permits more than He directs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28641</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28641</guid>
		<description>Great point, Michael.  I know a lady who was killed by a drunk driver, leaving 7 children behind.  I didn&#039;t agree at all that &quot;it must have been her time&quot;.  I blame the drunk who killed her.  Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point, Michael.  I know a lady who was killed by a drunk driver, leaving 7 children behind.  I didn&#8217;t agree at all that &#8220;it must have been her time&#8221;.  I blame the drunk who killed her.  Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28625</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28625</guid>
		<description>I attended the funeral of a former ward member who died suddenly at age 38, leaving a young wife and four children, aged 12 - 1.  Every single speaker talked about how K. had been called to a mission on the other side, how we don&#039;t know what it is, but it must be important to call him away so suddenly.  Even the bishop and stake president echoed this sentiment.  

I was really uncomfortable with this whole line of reasoning.  Given that when I helped him move some furniture two years ago he could hardly go up and down the stairs without gasping for breath (he was at least 60-80 pounds overweight), I think that the 90% arterial blockage was more likely the cause of his death than a calling to the other side.  

We try so hard to find answers to every question.  I think we need to (1) take some personal responsibility (yes, I&#039;m trying to lose weight) and (2) be willing to say, &quot;I don&#039;t know&quot; which is part of the Kimball quote above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended the funeral of a former ward member who died suddenly at age 38, leaving a young wife and four children, aged 12 &#8211; 1.  Every single speaker talked about how K. had been called to a mission on the other side, how we don&#8217;t know what it is, but it must be important to call him away so suddenly.  Even the bishop and stake president echoed this sentiment.  </p>
<p>I was really uncomfortable with this whole line of reasoning.  Given that when I helped him move some furniture two years ago he could hardly go up and down the stairs without gasping for breath (he was at least 60-80 pounds overweight), I think that the 90% arterial blockage was more likely the cause of his death than a calling to the other side.  </p>
<p>We try so hard to find answers to every question.  I think we need to (1) take some personal responsibility (yes, I&#8217;m trying to lose weight) and (2) be willing to say, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; which is part of the Kimball quote above.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28602</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28602</guid>
		<description>Very interesting way to frame the central question, &quot;Are we better off dead?&quot;  It&#039;s not the question that I mind; it&#039;s the implications - or rather the possible actions from some of the implications.  

I personally think the question of whether or not we are better off dead is a false dichotomy - since we believe we are never &quot;dead&quot; but always alive.  I prefer to focus on living each stage of life as fully as possible - to try to learn as much from each stage as is possible, which includes not shortening any stage prematurely through our own choices.  Let God decide whether or not my appointed time has come; in the meantime, I will focus on sticking around as long as possible and continuing to learn in this stage of life.  

In summary, while I have no problem with the question in theory, I would prefer to ignore the question in practical reality.  Too many people have taken it and used it as a justification for abominable individual and societal actions, so I&#039;d prefer it not become a widely discussed question in general - or, at the very least, be answered in general with a resounding, &quot;NO!&quot;  I might agree with Stephen that often the answer is, &quot;Yes,&quot; but I believe that should be an individual answer - not a collective understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting way to frame the central question, &#8220;Are we better off dead?&#8221;  It&#8217;s not the question that I mind; it&#8217;s the implications &#8211; or rather the possible actions from some of the implications.  </p>
<p>I personally think the question of whether or not we are better off dead is a false dichotomy &#8211; since we believe we are never &#8220;dead&#8221; but always alive.  I prefer to focus on living each stage of life as fully as possible &#8211; to try to learn as much from each stage as is possible, which includes not shortening any stage prematurely through our own choices.  Let God decide whether or not my appointed time has come; in the meantime, I will focus on sticking around as long as possible and continuing to learn in this stage of life.  </p>
<p>In summary, while I have no problem with the question in theory, I would prefer to ignore the question in practical reality.  Too many people have taken it and used it as a justification for abominable individual and societal actions, so I&#8217;d prefer it not become a widely discussed question in general &#8211; or, at the very least, be answered in general with a resounding, &#8220;NO!&#8221;  I might agree with Stephen that often the answer is, &#8220;Yes,&#8221; but I believe that should be an individual answer &#8211; not a collective understanding.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M (ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/15/%e2%80%9cgod-spared-my-life%e2%80%9d-or-did-he/#comment-28561</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M (ethesis)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1123#comment-28561</guid>
		<description>“Are we better off dead?” -- yes!  Often, that is.

Nicely thought, well written, I hope this draws the attention it deserves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Are we better off dead?” &#8212; yes!  Often, that is.</p>
<p>Nicely thought, well written, I hope this draws the attention it deserves.</p>
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