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	<title>Comments on: Who are those Guys?- Quiz!</title>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Finley</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-61144</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Finley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-61144</guid>
		<description>True true!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True true!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Parley</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-37952</link>
		<dc:creator>Parley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-37952</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve asked &quot;who are those guys?&quot;  Him therefore, whom ye ignorantly follow, declare I unto you.  The answer is, the invisible servants of the &#039;god of this world&#039;, who in turn is a metaphor for their governing philosophy.  They govern you by lies.  All lies.  Nothing but lies.  Virtually everything you think you know is a lie.  Your entire world-view is a lie.  It&#039;s been that way since &#039;the fall&#039;.  At some point, it&#039;s time to wake up and realize this fact.  But to do so is scary.  You have to take total responsibility for your morality, your beliefs, your life, and the use of your light.  For that reason, most people never do it.  They tacitly accept their slavery, considering it better than having to face the uncertainty by themselves.  For those of you who are not willing to sacrifice everything for the truth, now is the time to stop reading.

There is nowhere that the lie is more easily grasped than in religion.  If you can bring yourself to read the following paragraphs with an open mind, your true freedom can begin in just a few minutes.  The rulers of this world worship the heavens.  They delight in getting you to ignorantly do the same.  How so?  Let me explain.  What are the major doctrines of the Church?  The &#039;son&#039; is born of a virgin on December 25th, he&#039;s surrounded by 12 apostles who are characterized as &#039;fishermen&#039;, he conducts a saving mission bringing light and life to the world, he&#039;s abandoned by his apostles when he wears his red robes and treads the wine-press of the wrath of God alone, he dies on the cross effecting the atonement, he&#039;s buried in a tomb for 3 days, during which time, he preaches to the spirits in prison, after this, he is resurrected, born again, the first fruits of the resurrection, and as a result, his resurrection passes to all, he then ascends into the heavens wearing his white garments showing he has overcome and put all his enemies under his feet.

This Jesus Christ is the personification of the solar disk, and nothing more.  2,000 years ago, the people who ran the world were then headquartered in Rome.  They needed a religion to unify the empire.  They looked around for raw material and found &#039;pagan sun worshipers&#039;.  These sun worshipers drew the circle of the horizon and connected the cardinal points of the compass, much the same as Catholics do today when they cross themselves, north, south, east, and west.  This formed what was known as the &#039;solar cross&#039;.  When you see it today, it&#039;s called the Celtic Cross.  They put the sun on the center of the cross, hence the circular center of the Celtic Cross.  They told the story of the sun, born on December 25th.  This is the first day the sun starts it&#039;s northward journey, once again rising above the horizon in the northern latitudes and starting its mission of bringing light and life to the world.  It is born of the virgin mother earth and surrounded by the 12 signs of the zodiac who accompany him during his mission.  Since Christianity was designed to be the religion of the world during the age of Pisces, the &#039;apostles&#039;, who were the personified zodiac, were characterized as fishermen.  The sun gradually moves higher in the sky until the summer solstice, when it ends its northward progression and starts to sink into the southern sky again.  As it nears the horizon, the sun is red, thus the red robes of the wrath of god.  When, at the winter solstice the sun sinks below the horizon, it doesn&#039;t rise again.  The sun seems to stay at the same southern terminus of its journey for three days, actually remaining below the horizon in the northern latitudes, thus having died and been buried for three days.  Then, on December 25, after three days in the tomb, the sun once again starts its northward journey, being resurrected or born again, the first-fruits of the resurrection, to once again climb into the sky.  This resurrection of the sun allows it to bring light and life to the world once again, so that after a few months the bunnies pop out of the ground and life is renewed.  Thus the atonement passes to all.

With this simple lie, we and our parents and their parents have been kept in servitude for 2,000 years to a priesthood who pretends to have a relationship with god that we must shelter under to avoid being cast down to hell.  Ever wonder why all of a sudden there&#039;s such an attack on Christianity in our country?  We&#039;re entering the age of Aqarius.  It&#039;s time for the religion of the new age.  But you don&#039;t really expect them to tell you that they lied to you before and it&#039;s time to replace the old lies with some new lies do you?  Plus conflict is great for keeping people in line.  If you don&#039;t believe me, look at the old testament and you can see Moses keeping his people in line by punishing the Israelites for worshipping a golden calf when Moses wanted them to move from the old age&#039;s religion of Taurus (the bull) to the &#039;new&#039; age&#039;s religion of Aries (the ram), who &#039;god&#039; miraculously provided caught in a thicket.  Or you can read about &#039;Christ&#039; telling his followers they should reject the old religion of Aries, to follow his &#039;fishermen&#039; apostles for the age of Pisces.  Do you really want to be manipulated like this?

Does it really matter if religion is a lie if it makes people happy?  Yes indeed, unless you think it&#039;s a good thing for you to make decisions based on lies and that theft by fraud is a good vocation for those who run your life.  If you think about the multitude of decisions you make about how things should be, based on this lie, you&#039;ll begin to understand how your thoughts and life is manipulated for their purposes.  Think of the billions of dollars that have been looted from our country&#039;s treasury for the benefit of arms dealers (many run by the same people that run our country) by the simple expedient of getting Christians to fight with Muslims; or the billions of dollars that have been sent to Israel by the United States based on the support we give them based entirely on the lie that they&#039;re god&#039;s chosen people (by the way, it&#039;s nearly as easy to show that the entire old testament is material lifted from earlier Egyptian and Summerian myths).  Do you really believe that the all-knowing, all-loving Father of everyone on the planet is such a jerk that he has a favorite kid and the rest of us are dirt?  Wake up.  Experience true freedom.  Learn to love and do right because it&#039;s the right thing to do, not because you&#039;re afraid of Daddy.  And also learn to recognize when you&#039;re being lied to.  To quote the late Huey Long, &quot;You can tell when they&#039;re lying.  If their lips are moving, they&#039;re lying.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve asked &#8220;who are those guys?&#8221;  Him therefore, whom ye ignorantly follow, declare I unto you.  The answer is, the invisible servants of the &#8216;god of this world&#8217;, who in turn is a metaphor for their governing philosophy.  They govern you by lies.  All lies.  Nothing but lies.  Virtually everything you think you know is a lie.  Your entire world-view is a lie.  It&#8217;s been that way since &#8216;the fall&#8217;.  At some point, it&#8217;s time to wake up and realize this fact.  But to do so is scary.  You have to take total responsibility for your morality, your beliefs, your life, and the use of your light.  For that reason, most people never do it.  They tacitly accept their slavery, considering it better than having to face the uncertainty by themselves.  For those of you who are not willing to sacrifice everything for the truth, now is the time to stop reading.</p>
<p>There is nowhere that the lie is more easily grasped than in religion.  If you can bring yourself to read the following paragraphs with an open mind, your true freedom can begin in just a few minutes.  The rulers of this world worship the heavens.  They delight in getting you to ignorantly do the same.  How so?  Let me explain.  What are the major doctrines of the Church?  The &#8216;son&#8217; is born of a virgin on December 25th, he&#8217;s surrounded by 12 apostles who are characterized as &#8216;fishermen&#8217;, he conducts a saving mission bringing light and life to the world, he&#8217;s abandoned by his apostles when he wears his red robes and treads the wine-press of the wrath of God alone, he dies on the cross effecting the atonement, he&#8217;s buried in a tomb for 3 days, during which time, he preaches to the spirits in prison, after this, he is resurrected, born again, the first fruits of the resurrection, and as a result, his resurrection passes to all, he then ascends into the heavens wearing his white garments showing he has overcome and put all his enemies under his feet.</p>
<p>This Jesus Christ is the personification of the solar disk, and nothing more.  2,000 years ago, the people who ran the world were then headquartered in Rome.  They needed a religion to unify the empire.  They looked around for raw material and found &#8216;pagan sun worshipers&#8217;.  These sun worshipers drew the circle of the horizon and connected the cardinal points of the compass, much the same as Catholics do today when they cross themselves, north, south, east, and west.  This formed what was known as the &#8216;solar cross&#8217;.  When you see it today, it&#8217;s called the Celtic Cross.  They put the sun on the center of the cross, hence the circular center of the Celtic Cross.  They told the story of the sun, born on December 25th.  This is the first day the sun starts it&#8217;s northward journey, once again rising above the horizon in the northern latitudes and starting its mission of bringing light and life to the world.  It is born of the virgin mother earth and surrounded by the 12 signs of the zodiac who accompany him during his mission.  Since Christianity was designed to be the religion of the world during the age of Pisces, the &#8216;apostles&#8217;, who were the personified zodiac, were characterized as fishermen.  The sun gradually moves higher in the sky until the summer solstice, when it ends its northward progression and starts to sink into the southern sky again.  As it nears the horizon, the sun is red, thus the red robes of the wrath of god.  When, at the winter solstice the sun sinks below the horizon, it doesn&#8217;t rise again.  The sun seems to stay at the same southern terminus of its journey for three days, actually remaining below the horizon in the northern latitudes, thus having died and been buried for three days.  Then, on December 25, after three days in the tomb, the sun once again starts its northward journey, being resurrected or born again, the first-fruits of the resurrection, to once again climb into the sky.  This resurrection of the sun allows it to bring light and life to the world once again, so that after a few months the bunnies pop out of the ground and life is renewed.  Thus the atonement passes to all.</p>
<p>With this simple lie, we and our parents and their parents have been kept in servitude for 2,000 years to a priesthood who pretends to have a relationship with god that we must shelter under to avoid being cast down to hell.  Ever wonder why all of a sudden there&#8217;s such an attack on Christianity in our country?  We&#8217;re entering the age of Aqarius.  It&#8217;s time for the religion of the new age.  But you don&#8217;t really expect them to tell you that they lied to you before and it&#8217;s time to replace the old lies with some new lies do you?  Plus conflict is great for keeping people in line.  If you don&#8217;t believe me, look at the old testament and you can see Moses keeping his people in line by punishing the Israelites for worshipping a golden calf when Moses wanted them to move from the old age&#8217;s religion of Taurus (the bull) to the &#8216;new&#8217; age&#8217;s religion of Aries (the ram), who &#8216;god&#8217; miraculously provided caught in a thicket.  Or you can read about &#8216;Christ&#8217; telling his followers they should reject the old religion of Aries, to follow his &#8216;fishermen&#8217; apostles for the age of Pisces.  Do you really want to be manipulated like this?</p>
<p>Does it really matter if religion is a lie if it makes people happy?  Yes indeed, unless you think it&#8217;s a good thing for you to make decisions based on lies and that theft by fraud is a good vocation for those who run your life.  If you think about the multitude of decisions you make about how things should be, based on this lie, you&#8217;ll begin to understand how your thoughts and life is manipulated for their purposes.  Think of the billions of dollars that have been looted from our country&#8217;s treasury for the benefit of arms dealers (many run by the same people that run our country) by the simple expedient of getting Christians to fight with Muslims; or the billions of dollars that have been sent to Israel by the United States based on the support we give them based entirely on the lie that they&#8217;re god&#8217;s chosen people (by the way, it&#8217;s nearly as easy to show that the entire old testament is material lifted from earlier Egyptian and Summerian myths).  Do you really believe that the all-knowing, all-loving Father of everyone on the planet is such a jerk that he has a favorite kid and the rest of us are dirt?  Wake up.  Experience true freedom.  Learn to love and do right because it&#8217;s the right thing to do, not because you&#8217;re afraid of Daddy.  And also learn to recognize when you&#8217;re being lied to.  To quote the late Huey Long, &#8220;You can tell when they&#8217;re lying.  If their lips are moving, they&#8217;re lying.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SingleSpeed</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30593</link>
		<dc:creator>SingleSpeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30593</guid>
		<description>James (38)
For the record (in case the SCMC is reading), that is not *my* quote.  I merely [illegally] posted copyrighted material from PostSecret.

John Dehlin (29)
I am sorry to hear that your mind has literally been blown.  That sounds like it would hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James (38)<br />
For the record (in case the SCMC is reading), that is not *my* quote.  I merely [illegally] posted copyrighted material from PostSecret.</p>
<p>John Dehlin (29)<br />
I am sorry to hear that your mind has literally been blown.  That sounds like it would hurt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30586</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30586</guid>
		<description>37 Thanks Ben

Your second precise paragraph,answers my vague question! 
I will also check out the McKay Biography by Prince.

38 John Nillson
“Who appoints the director of the Ensign?” Once again your second paragraph answered the question. I did mean Civil Servant which I should have clarified



28 Carlos J- Interesting stuff on Strengthening the Church Committee.

20 Clay - Colonel Sanders - This is deep stuff!!

24 Holden Caulfield- Your Mission president - the spirit of the law thing went over his head.

 
29 John Dehlin
That would be great to hear!!

I had lunch w/ Gileadi a few months back. MAN was that fascinating. For those of you who know me, remind me to tell you the story sometime. It literally blew my mind.


31 Single Speed - Liked your quote &quot;Every Sunday I sneak off to an LDS church my family have no I idea where I am</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>37 Thanks Ben</p>
<p>Your second precise paragraph,answers my vague question!<br />
I will also check out the McKay Biography by Prince.</p>
<p>38 John Nillson<br />
“Who appoints the director of the Ensign?” Once again your second paragraph answered the question. I did mean Civil Servant which I should have clarified</p>
<p>28 Carlos J- Interesting stuff on Strengthening the Church Committee.</p>
<p>20 Clay &#8211; Colonel Sanders &#8211; This is deep stuff!!</p>
<p>24 Holden Caulfield- Your Mission president &#8211; the spirit of the law thing went over his head.</p>
<p>29 John Dehlin<br />
That would be great to hear!!</p>
<p>I had lunch w/ Gileadi a few months back. MAN was that fascinating. For those of you who know me, remind me to tell you the story sometime. It literally blew my mind.</p>
<p>31 Single Speed &#8211; Liked your quote &#8220;Every Sunday I sneak off to an LDS church my family have no I idea where I am</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30581</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30581</guid>
		<description>&quot;I thought I read some where that FAIR use outside staff (non-members) in their research. If so, who are these guys?&quot;

This question isn&#039;t very clear. First of all, FAIR has no inside &quot;staff.&quot; It&#039;s completely a volunteer, shoe-string, unpaid association. Secondly, there are degrees of involvement, so it depends what aspect of FAIR you&#039;re asking about. Presentations at the FAIR conference? Posts on the blog? Wiki content? FAIR certainly *cites* lots of non-FAIR and non-LDS sources and people. There are people who present, edit, etc. who are not on the internal email list. I guess that&#039;s a shotgun answer to a vague question.

Also, if you want to read about the creation of correlation, check out the McKay biography by Prince. It has a whole chapter on it. I&#039;m not sure it jives exactly with James&#039; explanation above, but its a written source you can go to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I thought I read some where that FAIR use outside staff (non-members) in their research. If so, who are these guys?&#8221;</p>
<p>This question isn&#8217;t very clear. First of all, FAIR has no inside &#8220;staff.&#8221; It&#8217;s completely a volunteer, shoe-string, unpaid association. Secondly, there are degrees of involvement, so it depends what aspect of FAIR you&#8217;re asking about. Presentations at the FAIR conference? Posts on the blog? Wiki content? FAIR certainly *cites* lots of non-FAIR and non-LDS sources and people. There are people who present, edit, etc. who are not on the internal email list. I guess that&#8217;s a shotgun answer to a vague question.</p>
<p>Also, if you want to read about the creation of correlation, check out the McKay biography by Prince. It has a whole chapter on it. I&#8217;m not sure it jives exactly with James&#8217; explanation above, but its a written source you can go to.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Dehlin</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30553</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dehlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30553</guid>
		<description>Gileadi has never considered himself to be part of the September 6.  He really, really dislikes any association with them.  He&#039;s on the completely opposite side of the scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gileadi has never considered himself to be part of the September 6.  He really, really dislikes any association with them.  He&#8217;s on the completely opposite side of the scale.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Marsh</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30538</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Marsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30538</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I had lunch w/ Gileadi a few months back. MAN was that fascinating. For those of you who know me, remind me to tell you the story sometime. It literally blew my mind.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;d love to hear the story, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I had lunch w/ Gileadi a few months back. MAN was that fascinating. For those of you who know me, remind me to tell you the story sometime. It literally blew my mind.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;d love to hear the story, thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Marsh</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30537</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Marsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30537</guid>
		<description>Though I don&#039;t know what prompted the pilot programs.  The Church does things like that all the time (sees something, runs a pilot program and then prays about it and decides whether or not to implement the program on a broader scale.  They get ideas from everywhere it seems).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I don&#8217;t know what prompted the pilot programs.  The Church does things like that all the time (sees something, runs a pilot program and then prays about it and decides whether or not to implement the program on a broader scale.  They get ideas from everywhere it seems).</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Marsh</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30536</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Marsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30536</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Who are those guys that made the policy to go to a straight 3 hour block? Is it done by the prophet and apostles or is their a team of researchers that correlate with them?&lt;/b&gt;

I know the answer to that one.  Various people worked on that, as one of many projects.  However, the president of the Church made the decision, then asked for some help on putting things together to discuss it with the general authorities.  I know very few of the actual details other than:

(a) the pilot projects and
(b) some of the details on the presentation (a very minor thing about putting some quotes in order).  

As far as I could tell, non-general authorities got to do things at the level of making photocopies in that decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Who are those guys that made the policy to go to a straight 3 hour block? Is it done by the prophet and apostles or is their a team of researchers that correlate with them?</b></p>
<p>I know the answer to that one.  Various people worked on that, as one of many projects.  However, the president of the Church made the decision, then asked for some help on putting things together to discuss it with the general authorities.  I know very few of the actual details other than:</p>
<p>(a) the pilot projects and<br />
(b) some of the details on the presentation (a very minor thing about putting some quotes in order).  </p>
<p>As far as I could tell, non-general authorities got to do things at the level of making photocopies in that decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shawn Larsen</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30506</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30506</guid>
		<description>#29 -- I have always wanted to hear his story.  He&#039;s the only one the Sept. 6 about whom I know virtually nothing (except that he got in trouble for a series of Isiah lecture, or something along those lines).  Unlike the others, I&#039;ve never read any articles by or about him purpoting to &quot;set the record&quot; straight, and I don&#039;t think he took part in Sunstone&#039;s &quot;10 years after&quot; panel in 1993 (Am I wrong about that, Matt T.?)  I&#039;ll have to take you up on that offer next time I&#039;m in Logan, John.  In the meantime, perhaps a new Mormon Stories podcast is in order?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#29 &#8212; I have always wanted to hear his story.  He&#8217;s the only one the Sept. 6 about whom I know virtually nothing (except that he got in trouble for a series of Isiah lecture, or something along those lines).  Unlike the others, I&#8217;ve never read any articles by or about him purpoting to &#8220;set the record&#8221; straight, and I don&#8217;t think he took part in Sunstone&#8217;s &#8220;10 years after&#8221; panel in 1993 (Am I wrong about that, Matt T.?)  I&#8217;ll have to take you up on that offer next time I&#8217;m in Logan, John.  In the meantime, perhaps a new Mormon Stories podcast is in order?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SingleSpeed</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30501</link>
		<dc:creator>SingleSpeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30501</guid>
		<description>Carlos,

The SCMC just attached that to your membership record.  Prepare to be disciplined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos,</p>
<p>The SCMC just attached that to your membership record.  Prepare to be disciplined.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30500</link>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30500</guid>
		<description>James, 

&quot;Who appoints the director of the Ensign?&quot;

By Director, do you mean the General Authority in charge, or the Church civil servant?  There is a General Authority adviser for each of the four Church magazines, and they report to another General Authority, who serves as the Executive Director of the Curriculum Department. I would assume that either the Executive Director or the members of the Twelve he reports to (on the Priesthood Executive Council) would appoint the highest-ranking Church employee over the magazines, the Managing Director of the Curriculum Department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, </p>
<p>&#8220;Who appoints the director of the Ensign?&#8221;</p>
<p>By Director, do you mean the General Authority in charge, or the Church civil servant?  There is a General Authority adviser for each of the four Church magazines, and they report to another General Authority, who serves as the Executive Director of the Curriculum Department. I would assume that either the Executive Director or the members of the Twelve he reports to (on the Priesthood Executive Council) would appoint the highest-ranking Church employee over the magazines, the Managing Director of the Curriculum Department.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dehlin</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30497</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dehlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30497</guid>
		<description>I had lunch w/ Gileadi a few months back.  MAN was that fascinating.  For those of you who know me, remind me to tell you the story sometime.  It literally blew my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had lunch w/ Gileadi a few months back.  MAN was that fascinating.  For those of you who know me, remind me to tell you the story sometime.  It literally blew my mind.</p>
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		<title>By: CarlosJC</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30495</link>
		<dc:creator>CarlosJC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30495</guid>
		<description>Great post! I wish I knew the answers. 

About &quot;Strengthening The Church Members Committee: who are these guys? (ex-CIA?)..Are they watchin’ us now?&quot;  

Yes, they are certainly watching us!

A small anecdote: I baptized an elderly man on my mission in mid &#039;80s but he died 2 months later, so I sent in the paperwork for proxy endowment to the Sao Paulo temple explaining the story and that I felt it a responsibility to do so. They promised to do it that week but also mentioned that members who die unendowed are automatically added to the proxy list 5 years after death.

Fast forward to 1998 and a high priest class in australia I was giving. We had a visitor from Salt Lake, a manager from records &amp; stats who was there to do an audit. During  the class I started to tell the story of this brother who died 2 months after baptizm and this manager, from Salt Lake whom I&#039;d never met before, interrupted to say &quot;and you where the missionary who sent in the letter and form requesting proxy work.....&quot; etc. At first I said yes and told the story. But then it hit me, he worked in Salt Lake city, this was some 12 years after sending 1 letter to a temple in south america which wasn&#039;t public at all with a standard form (back then) and he knew all about them! Seems the church not only doesn&#039;t delete any letters at all but also attaches all correspondence and acts (for lack of a better word) that members do to their membership records, and this can then be seen by records/stats people for ever-after plus by general authorities. 

Since then I’ve come to believe that the church offices are actually the real Big Brother and the best secret combination this planet has. It&#039;s incredibly secretive and keeps records on all members -just like the stasi did with German citizens. Amazing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! I wish I knew the answers. </p>
<p>About &#8220;Strengthening The Church Members Committee: who are these guys? (ex-CIA?)..Are they watchin’ us now?&#8221;  </p>
<p>Yes, they are certainly watching us!</p>
<p>A small anecdote: I baptized an elderly man on my mission in mid &#8217;80s but he died 2 months later, so I sent in the paperwork for proxy endowment to the Sao Paulo temple explaining the story and that I felt it a responsibility to do so. They promised to do it that week but also mentioned that members who die unendowed are automatically added to the proxy list 5 years after death.</p>
<p>Fast forward to 1998 and a high priest class in australia I was giving. We had a visitor from Salt Lake, a manager from records &amp; stats who was there to do an audit. During  the class I started to tell the story of this brother who died 2 months after baptizm and this manager, from Salt Lake whom I&#8217;d never met before, interrupted to say &#8220;and you where the missionary who sent in the letter and form requesting proxy work&#8230;..&#8221; etc. At first I said yes and told the story. But then it hit me, he worked in Salt Lake city, this was some 12 years after sending 1 letter to a temple in south america which wasn&#8217;t public at all with a standard form (back then) and he knew all about them! Seems the church not only doesn&#8217;t delete any letters at all but also attaches all correspondence and acts (for lack of a better word) that members do to their membership records, and this can then be seen by records/stats people for ever-after plus by general authorities. </p>
<p>Since then I’ve come to believe that the church offices are actually the real Big Brother and the best secret combination this planet has. It&#8217;s incredibly secretive and keeps records on all members -just like the stasi did with German citizens. Amazing!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Spector</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30487</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Spector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30487</guid>
		<description>#21 - Almost correct!

1952
The Colonel begins actively franchising his chicken business by traveling from town to town and cooking batches of chicken for restaurant owners and employees.

The Colonel awards Pete Harman of Salt Lake City with the first KFC franchise. A handshake agreement stipulates a payment of a nickel to Sanders for each chicken sold. 

The biggest franchiser was LDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21 &#8211; Almost correct!</p>
<p>1952<br />
The Colonel begins actively franchising his chicken business by traveling from town to town and cooking batches of chicken for restaurant owners and employees.</p>
<p>The Colonel awards Pete Harman of Salt Lake City with the first KFC franchise. A handshake agreement stipulates a payment of a nickel to Sanders for each chicken sold. </p>
<p>The biggest franchiser was LDS.</p>
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		<title>By: Paula</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30479</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30479</guid>
		<description>Joshua, you&#039;re only partly correct. Gileadi was one of the ones counted as one of the September 6. He has been rebaptized, but he was excommunicated at that time. This site quotes the Tribune article:
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no85.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua, you&#8217;re only partly correct. Gileadi was one of the ones counted as one of the September 6. He has been rebaptized, but he was excommunicated at that time. This site quotes the Tribune article:<br />
<a href="http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no85.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no85.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30473</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30473</guid>
		<description>#24 - That&#039;s just sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24 &#8211; That&#8217;s just sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Holden Caulfield</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30472</link>
		<dc:creator>Holden Caulfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30472</guid>
		<description>As to the three hour block, I know who it wasn&#039;t......In the old days, my companion and I were in a remote area of Brazil.  People struggled getting to church, attendance was low for the three different meetings.  We consolidated them.  Attendance was way up, we actually had enough people to teach classes, etc.  We wrote the mission president of our great success.  He wrote back upset saying, &quot;Elder, make the church look like the church.&quot;  He either didn&#039;t like the idea or he felt lower attendance made the church look like the church in Brazil.  Per his wishes, we went back to old ways and old attendance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to the three hour block, I know who it wasn&#8217;t&#8230;&#8230;In the old days, my companion and I were in a remote area of Brazil.  People struggled getting to church, attendance was low for the three different meetings.  We consolidated them.  Attendance was way up, we actually had enough people to teach classes, etc.  We wrote the mission president of our great success.  He wrote back upset saying, &#8220;Elder, make the church look like the church.&#8221;  He either didn&#8217;t like the idea or he felt lower attendance made the church look like the church in Brazil.  Per his wishes, we went back to old ways and old attendance.</p>
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		<title>By: Rigel Hawthorne</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30471</link>
		<dc:creator>Rigel Hawthorne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30471</guid>
		<description>On our tour of the conference center, the tour guide suggested that we multiply the square footage of the building by the average cost per foot for commercial real estate to come up with our own estimate.  That&#039;s as close an answer as we got.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On our tour of the conference center, the tour guide suggested that we multiply the square footage of the building by the average cost per foot for commercial real estate to come up with our own estimate.  That&#8217;s as close an answer as we got.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30466</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30466</guid>
		<description>Strengthening Church Members Committee (SCMC)

Is a committee of general authorities who monitor the publications of church members for possible criticism of local and general leaders of the church. If criticism is found, the committee may forward information to local church authorities, who may bring charges of apostasy, which can result in excommunication.

The committee was formed sometime during the administration of church President Ezra Taft Benson (Time 1994), soon after Benson became president in 1985 (Quinn). The existence of the committee became known in 1991, when a 1990 church memo from general authority Glenn L. Pace referencing the committee was published by an anti-Mormon ministry. The committee was one of the subjects discussed in the 1992 Sunstone Symposium in talks by Lavina Fielding Anderson and Eugene England (then a BYU professor) on August 6, 1992. Soon thereafter, the Salt Lake Tribune published news stories on the subject (Tribune, August 8, 1992 and August 15, 1992). In response, the LDS Church spokesman Don LeFevre acknowledged the existence of the committee (St. Petersburg 1992). LeFevre said that the committee &quot;receives complaints from church members about other members who have made statements that &#039;conceivably could do harm to the church&#039;&quot;, then the committee will &quot;pass the information along to the person&#039;s ecclesiastical leader.&quot; According to LeFevre, however, &quot;the committee neither makes judgments nor imposes penalties.&quot; Discipline is &quot;entirely up to the discretion of the local leaders.&quot; (St. Petersburg 1992)

The existence of the committee became national news. Speaking to the New York Times, LeFevre stated that the committee &quot;provides local church leadership with information designed to help them counsel with members who, however well-meaning, may hinder the progress of the church through public criticism.&quot; (Times 1992). He denied that such referrals were intended to intimidate scholars. The First Presidency then issued a statement on August 22, 1992 defended the committee based on a 1839 letter to Joseph Smith, Jr. while he was in prison after a period of intense persecution (see 1838 Mormon War), now canonized by the church (D&amp;C 123), that directed church leaders to establish a committee for &quot;gathering up a knowledge of all the facts, and sufferings and abuses put on&quot; church members, and the &quot;names of all persons that have had a hand in their oppressions&quot; (LDS Church 1992). The statement indicated that the members were then James E. Faust and Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

In 1993, apostle Dallin H. Oaks characterized the committee as a &quot;clipping service&quot; that &quot;may have monitored speeches, writings and activities of those suspected of apostasy and passed on material to church officials&quot; (Arizona Republic 1993).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strengthening Church Members Committee (SCMC)</p>
<p>Is a committee of general authorities who monitor the publications of church members for possible criticism of local and general leaders of the church. If criticism is found, the committee may forward information to local church authorities, who may bring charges of apostasy, which can result in excommunication.</p>
<p>The committee was formed sometime during the administration of church President Ezra Taft Benson (Time 1994), soon after Benson became president in 1985 (Quinn). The existence of the committee became known in 1991, when a 1990 church memo from general authority Glenn L. Pace referencing the committee was published by an anti-Mormon ministry. The committee was one of the subjects discussed in the 1992 Sunstone Symposium in talks by Lavina Fielding Anderson and Eugene England (then a BYU professor) on August 6, 1992. Soon thereafter, the Salt Lake Tribune published news stories on the subject (Tribune, August 8, 1992 and August 15, 1992). In response, the LDS Church spokesman Don LeFevre acknowledged the existence of the committee (St. Petersburg 1992). LeFevre said that the committee &#8220;receives complaints from church members about other members who have made statements that &#8216;conceivably could do harm to the church&#8217;&#8221;, then the committee will &#8220;pass the information along to the person&#8217;s ecclesiastical leader.&#8221; According to LeFevre, however, &#8220;the committee neither makes judgments nor imposes penalties.&#8221; Discipline is &#8220;entirely up to the discretion of the local leaders.&#8221; (St. Petersburg 1992)</p>
<p>The existence of the committee became national news. Speaking to the New York Times, LeFevre stated that the committee &#8220;provides local church leadership with information designed to help them counsel with members who, however well-meaning, may hinder the progress of the church through public criticism.&#8221; (Times 1992). He denied that such referrals were intended to intimidate scholars. The First Presidency then issued a statement on August 22, 1992 defended the committee based on a 1839 letter to Joseph Smith, Jr. while he was in prison after a period of intense persecution (see 1838 Mormon War), now canonized by the church (D&amp;C 123), that directed church leaders to establish a committee for &#8220;gathering up a knowledge of all the facts, and sufferings and abuses put on&#8221; church members, and the &#8220;names of all persons that have had a hand in their oppressions&#8221; (LDS Church 1992). The statement indicated that the members were then James E. Faust and Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.</p>
<p>In 1993, apostle Dallin H. Oaks characterized the committee as a &#8220;clipping service&#8221; that &#8220;may have monitored speeches, writings and activities of those suspected of apostasy and passed on material to church officials&#8221; (Arizona Republic 1993).</p>
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		<title>By: Ricercar</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30464</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricercar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30464</guid>
		<description>Good Job Clay, you beat me to the punch on the &#039;So I married an Axe Murderer&#039;quote - the movie I watched the night before I went into the MTC.

I remain convinced that the Colonel(before he went tete&#039;s up) was also behind Family Home Evening so that Families would eat his secret recipe.  It is no coincidence that the first KFC was at 33rd South in Salt Lake City.

 . . . the conspiracy widens . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Job Clay, you beat me to the punch on the &#8216;So I married an Axe Murderer&#8217;quote &#8211; the movie I watched the night before I went into the MTC.</p>
<p>I remain convinced that the Colonel(before he went tete&#8217;s up) was also behind Family Home Evening so that Families would eat his secret recipe.  It is no coincidence that the first KFC was at 33rd South in Salt Lake City.</p>
<p> . . . the conspiracy widens . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Clay Whipkey</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30461</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Whipkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30461</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there&#039;s a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as... The Meadows.

&quot;So who&#039;s in this Pentavirate?&quot;, you ask?

The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there&#8217;s a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as&#8230; The Meadows.</p>
<p>&#8220;So who&#8217;s in this Pentavirate?&#8221;, you ask?</p>
<p>The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders</p>
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		<title>By: Hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30456</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30456</guid>
		<description>Larry_co:  good one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry_co:  good one!</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30455</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30455</guid>
		<description>&quot;Actually, everything you mentioned was determined by a 6-member committee. One member each from the Trilateral Commission, Freemasons, Illuminati, Skull &amp; Bones, and the Danites; and is chaired by the Cigarette Smoking Man.&quot;

You mean the New World Bible Translation Committee???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Actually, everything you mentioned was determined by a 6-member committee. One member each from the Trilateral Commission, Freemasons, Illuminati, Skull &amp; Bones, and the Danites; and is chaired by the Cigarette Smoking Man.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean the New World Bible Translation Committee???</p>
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		<title>By: larryco_</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/28/who-are-those-guys-quiz/#comment-30451</link>
		<dc:creator>larryco_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=1375#comment-30451</guid>
		<description>Actually, everything you mentioned was determined by a 6-member committee.  One member each from the Trilateral Commission, Freemasons, Illuminati, Skull &amp; Bones, and the Danites; and is chaired by the Cigarette Smoking Man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, everything you mentioned was determined by a 6-member committee.  One member each from the Trilateral Commission, Freemasons, Illuminati, Skull &amp; Bones, and the Danites; and is chaired by the Cigarette Smoking Man.</p>
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