Comments on: Alma 36

By: Stephen M (Ethesis)

Stephen M (Ethesis) — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:56:17 +0000

Would someone hearing this read aloud sense the poetry more quickly than someone reading it?

I should note that John Welch found the patterns when he started outlining the Book of Mormon as he would cases for law school. The patterns jumped off the pages in his notes.

On the other hand, the completely different form that Samuel uses (and I suspect that the reason they had for not recording things he said, and that they did not feel like expressing to Christ, was that he did not meet contemporary standards of artistic grace) jumps out when you read it. Hammer strokes instead of brush strokes.

Appropriate for his audience too.

By: Bruce Nielson

Bruce Nielson — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:21:28 +0000

“one of this length would require some deliberation”

I agree, Hawk.

I had the thought occur to me that it may not be an intentional “chiasums” per se because I have no reason to believe (or disbelieve) that the Nephites brought such a form of poetry with them from the old world. It could be a creative author coming up with or discovering for their own the beauties of a Chiasumatic (is that a word?) pattern, for all I know.

But either way, it’s obivous a lot of effort went into the structure of what was being said.

By: Bruce Nielson

Bruce Nielson — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:20:41 +0000

“I find it difficult to note these patterns until someone points them out. I usually mentally note “repetition of theme already covered” and move on to the next verse.”

John, I am the same way, for both the Bible and the BoM. Cauldfield said that the Bible is beyond question poetic. Yet I never noticed till I was told.

By: Bruce Nielson

Bruce Nielson — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:16:18 +0000

“Since the KJ version of the Bible is without question “poetic”, does this create a need to find poetry in the BOM?”

Alma 36 will have to be judged for what it is.

By: Holden Caulfield

Holden Caulfield — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 02:56:19 +0000

Since the KJ version of the Bible is without question “poetic”, does this create a need to find poetry in the BOM? Do prophets need to be poets? Personally, I do not find the BOM poetic in any sense. To me, the language simplistic, although in the original BOM it was creative. “Numerority” (apparently Joseph’s word for a large number of things) in Alma in the 1830 version comes to mind.

By: John Nilsson

John Nilsson — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:00:01 +0000

Would someone hearing this read aloud sense the poetry more quickly than someone reading it? I find it difficult to note these patterns until someone points them out. I usually mentally note “repetition of theme already covered” and move on to the next verse.

By: Hawkgrrrl

Hawkgrrrl — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:55:52 +0000

I remember when they showed us this in college. It’s a pretty simplistic form of poetry to create, and many of the “chiastic” couplets are easy to reproduce; one of this length would require some deliberation. Regardless of it being a poem or not, I have always loved Alma 36.

By: miss_mae

miss_mae — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:33:25 +0000

i taught the same lesson in sunday school yesterday, and i completely forgot about the chiasmus! we didn’t even get all the way through the lesson, so it was probably a good thing. but thanks for the reminder!