Comments on: Remember Dieter Uchtdorf?

By: Alts

Alts — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:19:55 +0000

The question is not so much why replace a middle name with its initial, but rather why replace a first name with its initial and use the middle name instead?(L. Tom Perry, M. Russell Ballard, D. Todd Christofferson, L. Whitney Clayton) I can see if as a child, if you have the same name as your father or another relative it may distinguish from each other, and often times it stick for life. But that does not apply to the everyone outside the family who doesn’t have to confuse you from dad. Words like posture, respect and distginsguishment come to mind. After all, that is really the feeling we get when we hear, or read names like that. Otherwise I would be just as fine hearing or saying David Christofferson, Todd Christofferson or David Todd Christofferson. Using D. Todd Christofferson enhances respect, posture.

By: AdamF

AdamF — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:59:20 +0000

Awww Jerry. We love you.

By: jerry sutton

jerry sutton — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:38:18 +0000

Incredible, the fact i read this nonsense and am now commenting on it. In the capacity of an individuals dutys you use out of respect title/formal name. Brother Sister ect. accordinng to setting. At home or close friend first name ect. With the world collapsing and morality disintigrating it is amazing how this post even started. God forgiveme for reading and commenting with all the other problems we have to worry about.

By: Stephen M (Ethesis)

Stephen M (Ethesis) — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:51:21 +0000

I have to add this quote:

Prior to the winter of 1830-31, Cowdery generally signed his name “Oliver H P Cowdery”, the “H P” standing for “Hervy” and “Pliny,” two of his father’s relatives. For unknown reasons Cowdery discontinued using his middle initials about 1831. Cowdery may have wished his name to match the form in which it was printed in the 1830 Book of Mormon. [1]. It is also possible that teasing by the Palmyra Reflector (June 1, 1830) about Cowdery’s pretentious moniker may have influenced Cowdery to abandon the initials.

By: wayfarer

wayfarer — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:50:46 +0000

Perhaps the issue here is that outside the USA this is not standard practice-this is not an indigenous part of Dieter Echtdorf’s culture.It simply does not happen in Europe so it feels like an unnecessary affectation to many of us.In effect,middle names appear on our birth certificates and that’s about the last time you hear them here.How many Dieter Echtdorfs are there in the first presidency-it’s tradition,and we mormons don’t change anything we can keep the same for a century or so.Two names sounds plenty formal to me.

By: Ray

Ray — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:19:31 +0000

Buttercup didn’t need a middle initial in order to get her, “As you wish.” Butter P. Cup just doesn’t resonate – although the physical attractiveness post seems to claim that Butter C. Cup might be a better option.

(Sorry. Sometimes I let my sense of humor out of the house. Sometimes that’s a good thing; sometimes it isn’t.)

By: Hawkgrrrl

Hawkgrrrl — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:46:51 +0000

I’m going to start going by Hawk P. Grrrl. Time I started getting a little more respect!

By: Steve S

Steve S — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:03:18 +0000

John F. Kennedy, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Michael J. Fox, Alfred P. Sloan, and Scott M. Greenly are examples from some of the many other contexts where initials sometimes are used. If 95 percent of American men have a middle name, the odds are better than even that every current member of a group of twelve American men will have a first or middle initial available. Not all the current apostles are from America, but most Germans also have middle names. It is a little bit more coincidental (three to one against, under the same 95-percent assumption) that all of the last 27 members of the Quorum of the Twelve have had a middle name. LeGrande Richards, the last apostle without a middle name, was called to the Quorum of the Twelve in 1952. Middle names used to be less common than they are now, and several earlier members of the Quorum had only two names. Yoshihiko Kikuchi has enough syllables in his first name to make up for not having a middle name. The initial in the name of a general authority adds a ring of formality and authority, but sometimes it seems more comfortable to omit the initial.

By: Mark N.

Mark N. — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:52:20 +0000

what would they do for poor Elder Kikuchi if he became an apostle?

He’s probably disqualified from ever being called to the apostleship for the lack of an initial.

By: Stephen Marsh

Stephen Marsh — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 03:07:52 +0000

BTW, my uncle went by T. Leslie Shear back in the 70s — he isn’t LDS (not even close) nor Utahan.

I loved that Mormon Times essay as well Ray.

By: Jeff Spector

Jeff Spector — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:55:46 +0000

Gee, Ray, that means I’d have to shave. Not sure I can do that. My wife and kids haven’t seen my face since 1985. Which means that most of my kids never saw it. I don’t want to scare them now.

By: Ray

Ray — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:13:52 +0000

No, it will happen. Keep telling yourself that.

Oh, and the post is hilarious. I had forgotten about it.

By: Jeff Spector

Jeff Spector — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:38:13 +0000

I was reading that MormonMentality post today that I read about in Mormon Times http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/09/03/damaging-my-church-career.htm

So, are you saying that it might not happen????

By: Ray

Ray — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:43:32 +0000

Hold onto your dreams, J. Neil. Hold onto your dreams.

By: Jeff Spector

Jeff Spector — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:26:40 +0000

Mac,

I don’t know who that was, but I might guess that Fonz was short for Alfonzo except if he was from Utah where Fonz probably was his middle name! I already decided that when I became a GA ( hey, right!) I would do the first initial thing., J. Neil Spector. But alas, it has not happened…..yet.

By: fifthgen

fifthgen — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:23:04 +0000

My wife kept her unmarried surname without adopting mine precisely because whe wanted to maintain her connection with her family. I am not offended by that or by using a surname as a middle name to honor and maintain family connections. Apparently neither did Yeshua ben Joseph.

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:11:35 +0000

It seems to be happening with the women too….except that the entire maiden name is inserted between first and last….I think this is because a lot (and I mean a LOT) of the high-level ranking women in the church’s presidencies are directly related to the prophet, the immediately deceased prophet, or one of the apostles. It’s almost as if they are saying, “You see, I have this religious authority because of my lineage. I’m not just Jane Jones, but I’m Jane McKay Jones or Mary Hinckley Smith.”

I keep wondering how Yeshua, our Saviour, would relate to all this posturing. After all, he was called just Yeshua, or sometimes Yeshua ben Joseph.

By: teancum

teancum — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:50:30 +0000

I have a woman friend – - smart, educated, professional – - but of average professional, social and ecclesiastical standing. Several years ago, she started using a middle initial. Just kind of out the blue. For the longest time, I thought it was a joke, but it became clear that it was not. I still don’t get it, but chalked it up to some desire to be perceived as of the same stature as “the guys” (whoever they were in her mind). I do not object to referring to high-level leaders in a formal way as a token of respect, but I find it a strange affectation when adopted by others. And I am always relieved to hear of people who do not take themselves so seriously as to insist upon honorifics, including I guess middle initials, from others.

By: mac

mac — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:44:55 +0000

Jeff (#4);

I knew a bishop (in San Jose, even!) who went by O. Fonz Allen. Someone made the comment once, “I wonder what ‘O’ stands for that is worse than being called Fonz?”

By: Graham Wing

Graham Wing — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:39:17 +0000

I have an old Juvenile Instructor that has an article by “Russ Ballard”. Yes, this is pre-”M. Russell Ballard” time. There is something about seeing the name that is makes him seem more like a real person. I like it.

By: namakemono

namakemono — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:29:29 +0000

#3 AdamF – lol, yes Japan (but not Japanese)
#17 James – that is what AdamF was referring to with Elder Kikuchi – Japanese people don`t have a middle name

By: Ray

Ray — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:43:50 +0000

Fwiw, my current SP signs all his e-mails with either his first name or his first initial. Great man, btw.

By: Loren

Loren — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:55:22 +0000

I know that this is not the point of the article, but…
no, I do not remember a time when Dieter was not Dieter F.

Perhaps it is that I have just forgotten, or wasn’t paying attention closely enough, but I remember him coming to a Ricks College devotional at least once and I remember him at a temple dedication. I seem to remember both times being “Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf [of the 70]” when he was introduced. These would’ve been around 2000 or so.

As for using middle initials, I tend to think it helps to keep a sense of professionalism (when in church settings), yet it is also useful for distinctness purposes. Even if there was no previous Thomas Monson, there may be another one in the future, and it would be helpful (to him, if nothing else) to not be perpetually confused with

P.S. I found a Ricks devotional address for 13 March 2001
http://web.byui.edu/presentations/presPast.asp?SelYear=500&SearchStr=uchtdorf
and the Billings Montana temple was dedicated 20 November 1999 (though I may be mis-remembering him present at that). I also seem to remember him having visited Ricks some time before the temple dedication, but again I cannot be absolutely certain.

So I guess my only real evidence is the record of devotional address in 2001.

By: bfwebster

bfwebster — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:17:39 +0000

First, on the initial thing: I agree that it’s likely a ‘professional’ thing. I’ve been writing for nearly 30 years, and all my articles have the byline “Bruce F. Webster” (plus my firm is ‘Bruce F. Webster & Associates LLC’ and my domains are ‘brucefwebster.com’ and ‘bfwa.com’).

Second, on jjackson’s story (#21): sigh. By contrast, we had an older couple move into our ward a year or two ago. The husband was a retired professional who had also served for 18 years as a stake president before moving to Colorado. I called him ‘President’ when I spoke to him (much as I tend to call former bishops ‘Bishop’), but after the 2nd or 3rd time, he stopped me and said, “Please — my name is Larry.” ..bruce..

By: John Nilsson

John Nilsson — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:01:26 +0000

Another reason for using the full middle name for GAs and others: it often displays a family connection. In the case of a woman in my ward, her maiden name is Callister, which is a much more venerable name in Utah culture than her married name. She uses this name as much as possible. There is another gentleman whose Smith connections bore me to tears, because he only talks about his mother’s side of the family.

Saying Gordon “Bitner” Hinckley signifies both lines of descent for an individual. If my mom were a Bennion or a Budge, I bet that would be my middle name. It’s a social signifier…