I echo Ray’s welcome, and must say that it’s a pleasure to hear from someone coming from a different background with a different perspective.

As you learn more about LDS doctrines, you doubtless will find some things that are wholly irreconcilable with mainstream Christianity, but along the way, as you’ve begun to discover, you may find that we have a lot more in common than you may have thought.

Come back any time!

So, welcome, brother.

I was quite surprised (in a good way) when I read through your article. And to clear up any confusions: I attend a Southern Baptist church, and I have always been taught that the Trinity was three distinct persons (Father God, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit), but One God. Of course, it’s a topic that’s always difficult for mortal beings like us to wrap our minds around, but I can honestly say that the majority of (Protestant, or at least Baptist) Christians believe that the Godhead is distinct (3-in-1, 1-in-3). Your image (obviously) and description does a great job in explaining the Trinity. However, in Protestant Christianity, the focus is usually placed on the unity of the 3, not on the separation. But to be fair, I have always been taught that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit had distinct purposes and attributes.

From what I’ve read in your comments and posts so far, I’ve gotta say: I haven’t really found anything in your beliefs that contradicts what I believe except for your categorization of Joseph Smith (and the other Mormon leaders) as a saint and prophet and in your belief in the Book of Mormon. I have been pleasantly enlightened and encouraged by this. I must admit, this is slightly earth-shattering for me. I have always been taught that the LDS church was a “heresy” and whatnot, but from what I’ve seen, it’s really not all that different from my church except in traditions and stuff of that nature.

I hope you guys don’t mind an “outsider” involving himself in your discussions. I am just curious now, and I can see that you all are open and genuinely searching for truth, which is something that we are all called to do as Christians.

God bless,
-Isaac

-Jeffrey R. Holland, “The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent,” Ensign, Nov 2007, 40–42

Also note that Joseph didn’t write most of the Lectures on Faith.

After Smith’s murder, through at least 1916, various apostles (and, for most of them, only Smith was “The Prophet;” the earthly Church was headed by a president) used the terms Elohiem, Jehovah, Jesus, Adam, The Father to refer to various deities. The FP’s 1916 statement regarding The Father and The Son was not merely a statement of doctrine as we know it today. Rather, it put to rest most of the debate regarding the identities of Mormon deities – most especially ignoring Adam’s place in the theological discussions of the previous 60 years. (And causing present apologists to dismiss reports of President Young’s ponderings on the subject as the products of bad reporting.)

The present discussion assists the proselytization efforts by attempting to minimize the differences between the Mormon Godhood and the traditional Christian Trinity.

It is impossible to make sense of Mormon doctrine or, for that matter, any Christian denominations doctrines of Deity, without recognizing this.

Ameliag, the quote your asking about was a direct reference to the diagram displayed in the post, which is called the Shield of the Trinity. (See Wikipedia) Apparently it summarizes the first part of the Athanasian Creed, which dates to the 9th century. Whether it is currently regarded as authorized doctrine or even believed by most Christians today is frankly unclear to me, but it certainly does have its roots in historical creedal Christianity.

The idea that the members of the Godhead share the same nature or essence (and I would say necessarily so) is extremely well supported in the scriptures.

“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us.” (John 17:21)

And an admonition to “be of one mind”:

“Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Cor 13: 11)

And from the Book of Mormon:

“And now Father, I pray unto thee for them, and also for all those who shall believe on their words, that they may believe in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one. Father, I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me out of the world, because of their faith, that they may be purified in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one, that I may be glorified in them.” (3 Ne. 19: 23, 29)

And we can look with fresh eyes at the famous passage:

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)

It definitely gives one something to ponder.

I guess what I felt most significant about the Trinity diagram (made by mainstream Christians, it is not my creation) is that it provides for “is” and “is not” compartments between each one. The rules and standards for which one is classified where (substance, purpose, etc) does not appear to be explicit, and as such, it provides an insightful model in which we can classify elements of the LDS concept of God. Especially when we replace the central node with “the Lord,” and all of a sudden start dealing with LDS vernacular.

Seth R., you’re right, the analogy dissolves when comparing Tim and Tom directly. I use it primarily to illustrate the concept of a virtual entity which represents multiple literal entities… and thus how the idea of a virtual entity being formless and intangible is not quite as ridiculous as we often make it out to be.

I meant to present the following passages about the oneness of the Father and Son as a separate idea from the corporate analogy; sorry if that was a bit ambiguous.

House of the Lord = House of T&T Widgets Inc

Would that work for LDS in light of this post?

* The Godhead is one (office, unity, purpose) and also three distinct beings.
* The Bible is true and the earth is much older than 7,000 years.
* The Bible is true and it (some of it) is not
* The Bible is the revealed word of God, and there is more
* You must accept Christ in this life to be saved and you don’t (if you don’t have the opportunity)

Mark Petersen Oct. 1966
But there is only one God and only one way to be saved in his presence. That is by avoiding all forms of hypocrisy and by honestly and sincerely keeping his commandments. He is God of charity, mercy and law. He is truly a God of charity and mercy, but he is also a God of law. He has said in clear and precise terms that no unclean thing can come into his presence.

Essential Brigham Young page 92 (this entire speech is relevant to your discussion)
You and I have only one God to whom we are accountable, so we will let the rest alone, and search after the one we have to do with; let us seek diligently after Him, the very being who commenced this creation…..But let us turn our attention to the God with which we have to do. I tell you simply, He is our Father; the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Father of our spirits. Can that be possible? Yes, it is possible, He is the Father of all the spirits of the human family.

Orson Pratt “The Seer” vol. 1 no. 2 page 24
And also when we speak of only one God, and state that He is eternal, without beginning or end, and that He is in all worlds at the same instant, let it be distinctly remembered, that we have no reference to any particular person or substance, but to truth dwelling in a vast variety of substances.

Orson Pratt Oct. 7, 1854
this I endeavored to do in some of my last publications; not because I had more light upon this subject than many others, but I endeavored to do it for the benefit of the people—to show them wherein we believe in the plurality of Gods, and yet acknowledge only one God. I believe both of these principles with all my heart. I believe there is one only wise God, and I believe there is an immense number of Gods

John Taylor March 1, 1880
He had nobody around him to rise up and say, had you not better put it off for a little while, or otherwise change things, or to intimate that they were not prepared for what was done. No, they knew better. I suppose it would be more correct to render it, “And the Gods said, Let there be light, etc” But to us you know there is only one God; and he said, let there be light, and there was light. And God saw the light that it was good. It was made according to eternal principles, according to the strictest principles of intelligence and philosophy; and when it was made, it was declared good.

Charles Penrose March 4, 1883
There is only one way of life, only one plan of salvation, because there is but one God to serve. If there were many Gods to worship, there might be many different ways to salvation; but as to us there is only one God, there can be but one Gospel, one Church, one gate leading to the celestial city.

Joseph Smith History of the Church vol.6 page 474
Mankind verily say that the scriptures are with them. Search the scriptures, for they testify of things that these apostates would gravely pronounce blasphemy. Paul, if Joseph Smith is a blasphemer. you are. I say there are Gods many and Lords many, but to us only one, and we are to be in subjection to that one, and no man can limit the bounds or the eternal existence of eternal time. Hath he beheld the eternal world, and is he authorized to say that there is only one God? He makes himself a fool if he thinks or says so, and there is an end of his career or progress in knowledge. He cannot obtain all knowledge, for he has sealed up the gate to it.

On page 476 Joseph Smith says: Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God! I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three!