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	<title>Comments on: The Church as a Tool</title>
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		<title>By: Chris Gearheart</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-59539</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Gearheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-59539</guid>
		<description>I like the idea of the Church as a place, whoever mentioned it first.  As a child, the first idiom through which I understood what Mormonism was supposed to mean to me was the place of the chapel.  When it is not a physical place, it&#039;s a place in my mind where everyone expects me to act a certain way (demanding) but also to enjoy solidarity with them (considerate).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of the Church as a place, whoever mentioned it first.  As a child, the first idiom through which I understood what Mormonism was supposed to mean to me was the place of the chapel.  When it is not a physical place, it&#8217;s a place in my mind where everyone expects me to act a certain way (demanding) but also to enjoy solidarity with them (considerate).</p>
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		<title>By: jordan turner</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46724</link>
		<dc:creator>jordan turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46724</guid>
		<description>I have a friend who had read many books on philosophy before going through a faith crisis.  He said that ideas in those books made the transition very smooth and natural for him.

I don&#039;t think you are necessarily awaiting some great shift in your thinking.  All change is painful.  Gradual and sudden.  

I do think that we all have to become more Christian, though.  We all need to use the church more accurately.  The difficulty of this transition has to do with how hard we hold onto our old selves - not the nature of the change itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a friend who had read many books on philosophy before going through a faith crisis.  He said that ideas in those books made the transition very smooth and natural for him.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you are necessarily awaiting some great shift in your thinking.  All change is painful.  Gradual and sudden.  </p>
<p>I do think that we all have to become more Christian, though.  We all need to use the church more accurately.  The difficulty of this transition has to do with how hard we hold onto our old selves &#8211; not the nature of the change itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Rico</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46683</link>
		<dc:creator>Rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46683</guid>
		<description>I agree that there is a process of reconnecting, but can that be done piece by piece or does it have to fall apart before we can come to that new understanding, does it have to lay shattered on the floor before we can piece it back together. That process of admitting and shedding our&#039;old&#039; selves sounds alot like repentance.  I guess i may have that experience ahead of me, but thus far i feel that it has been a gradual shift.  I certainly would not rule it out ever happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there is a process of reconnecting, but can that be done piece by piece or does it have to fall apart before we can come to that new understanding, does it have to lay shattered on the floor before we can piece it back together. That process of admitting and shedding our&#8217;old&#8217; selves sounds alot like repentance.  I guess i may have that experience ahead of me, but thus far i feel that it has been a gradual shift.  I certainly would not rule it out ever happening.</p>
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		<title>By: jordan turner</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46615</link>
		<dc:creator>jordan turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46615</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Rico.  I&#039;ve often asked myself the same thing.  My father, for instance, seems to really drink up the &#039;light&#039; and love of the gospel and doesn&#039;t really have a &#039;disillusionment&#039; story.  

I agree with Hawkgrrrl, who says it wonderfully.  One can certainly ease into wisdom, but mostly it&#039;s earned through the painful process of admitting and shedding our &#039;old&#039; selves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Rico.  I&#8217;ve often asked myself the same thing.  My father, for instance, seems to really drink up the &#8216;light&#8217; and love of the gospel and doesn&#8217;t really have a &#8216;disillusionment&#8217; story.  </p>
<p>I agree with Hawkgrrrl, who says it wonderfully.  One can certainly ease into wisdom, but mostly it&#8217;s earned through the painful process of admitting and shedding our &#8216;old&#8217; selves.</p>
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		<title>By: Hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46461</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46461</guid>
		<description>Rico - not my analogy, but I have mixed feelings on that thought.  On the one hand, it would be nice to think that &quot;growing up&quot; (which is what this is really an analogy for) is a series of steps, line upon line, precept upon precept (so to speak).  But realistically, psychology and human development seem to indicate that a big part of growing up is breaking with the past, rejecting one&#039;s heritage, and then reconnecting with it in a more meaningful way on one&#039;s own terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rico &#8211; not my analogy, but I have mixed feelings on that thought.  On the one hand, it would be nice to think that &#8220;growing up&#8221; (which is what this is really an analogy for) is a series of steps, line upon line, precept upon precept (so to speak).  But realistically, psychology and human development seem to indicate that a big part of growing up is breaking with the past, rejecting one&#8217;s heritage, and then reconnecting with it in a more meaningful way on one&#8217;s own terms.</p>
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		<title>By: Rico</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46456</link>
		<dc:creator>Rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46456</guid>
		<description>Sorry to continue speaking through the analogy, but do you think that someone needs to have the tool become useless or at least not do what we require of it to be able to notice the flashlight, or can we realise that without that process?

It would be sad to me if that were not possible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to continue speaking through the analogy, but do you think that someone needs to have the tool become useless or at least not do what we require of it to be able to notice the flashlight, or can we realise that without that process?</p>
<p>It would be sad to me if that were not possible?</p>
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		<title>By: wayfarer</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46040</link>
		<dc:creator>wayfarer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46040</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have a little gospel light&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have a little gospel light&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Imperfection</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-46015</link>
		<dc:creator>Imperfection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 16:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-46015</guid>
		<description>I must admit I read the title of this thread and thought it was another prop 8 discussion.

I will just move along...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must admit I read the title of this thread and thought it was another prop 8 discussion.</p>
<p>I will just move along&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: spektator</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45980</link>
		<dc:creator>spektator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45980</guid>
		<description>I agree that this is a very good analogy. Sometimes, we humans will take the tool and glue all sorts of appendages onto the flashlight/church which are thought to enhance the use of the device but merely obstruct its intended use. In my opinion, the church is supposed to &#039;light&#039; our way in coming unto Christ. First, for the benefit of ourselves and then becoming a mechanism to allow us to help others. Christ told Peter: When thou are converted, strengthen thy brethren.

There should be a warning label on this device: Use of this device for purposes other than those originally intended may damage the testimony of the user.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that this is a very good analogy. Sometimes, we humans will take the tool and glue all sorts of appendages onto the flashlight/church which are thought to enhance the use of the device but merely obstruct its intended use. In my opinion, the church is supposed to &#8216;light&#8217; our way in coming unto Christ. First, for the benefit of ourselves and then becoming a mechanism to allow us to help others. Christ told Peter: When thou are converted, strengthen thy brethren.</p>
<p>There should be a warning label on this device: Use of this device for purposes other than those originally intended may damage the testimony of the user.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45880</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45880</guid>
		<description>I really like this.  It fits so well how I feel about the insight I gain as a result of my membership.  

Also, I was glad to see you include a massage in your list of solutions.  Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like this.  It fits so well how I feel about the insight I gain as a result of my membership.  </p>
<p>Also, I was glad to see you include a massage in your list of solutions.  Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: hawkgrrrl</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45876</link>
		<dc:creator>hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45876</guid>
		<description>I agree with Scotty J. But I do still enjoy making shadow puppets occasionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Scotty J. But I do still enjoy making shadow puppets occasionally.</p>
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		<title>By: Scotty Jackson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45874</link>
		<dc:creator>Scotty Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45874</guid>
		<description>Great post.

I&#039;m tired of thinking about what the salespeople said that influenced me to buy the tool. That is a waste of time. I should be looking for the button and places to shine my light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tired of thinking about what the salespeople said that influenced me to buy the tool. That is a waste of time. I should be looking for the button and places to shine my light.</p>
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		<title>By: jordan turner</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45850</link>
		<dc:creator>jordan turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45850</guid>
		<description>Yes, Working Mother.  Flashlight is man made, but the light is not.

I love the church more accurately now that I feel I&#039;m using it more correctly.

I had a similar experience with my father.  He was the hero of my youth, but as I grew up I realized that he was just a man.  How disappointed I felt, and how lonely.  Well, the more this new truth settled, I started seeing that yes, he is a man, but he a great man, even a wonderful man.  I love him today with a more accurate love.  I love him for who he is and not for who I want him to be.  Same with the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Working Mother.  Flashlight is man made, but the light is not.</p>
<p>I love the church more accurately now that I feel I&#8217;m using it more correctly.</p>
<p>I had a similar experience with my father.  He was the hero of my youth, but as I grew up I realized that he was just a man.  How disappointed I felt, and how lonely.  Well, the more this new truth settled, I started seeing that yes, he is a man, but he a great man, even a wonderful man.  I love him today with a more accurate love.  I love him for who he is and not for who I want him to be.  Same with the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Valoel</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45829</link>
		<dc:creator>Valoel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 20:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45829</guid>
		<description>Great job Jordan!

I sometimes have a hard time explaining to others how my beliefs can change, but I still find things in the Church so real and practical.  You explained a way of looking at it.  The mastery was saying it so simply, without an excess of words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great job Jordan!</p>
<p>I sometimes have a hard time explaining to others how my beliefs can change, but I still find things in the Church so real and practical.  You explained a way of looking at it.  The mastery was saying it so simply, without an excess of words.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45826</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45826</guid>
		<description>Of course, this tool sometimes asks you to do things for it rather than the other way around all the time.  It isn&#039;t all about what you get.  Sometimes it is about what you give.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, this tool sometimes asks you to do things for it rather than the other way around all the time.  It isn&#8217;t all about what you get.  Sometimes it is about what you give.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendal</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45824</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45824</guid>
		<description>I like your post John..... it hits home for me in that way too. I think the analogy is a good one ( even with the cornyness factor : P) I struggle at times to find where the &quot;tool&quot; fits in my life at times. I love it, and never plan on getting rid of it no matter what, because it has been such a good tool.

-- some people would like their “old testimony” back. I remember times when I wanted that old testimony back so badly.  It’s like I wanted that world back where my tool worked for everything. --

I really like this part. I feel this a lot, even though there has been no major crisis in my life. On my mission the church seemed to be the solution for every problem in my life, and every doubt would easily dissipate. I find it harder these days to find all the answers from &quot;the flashlight&quot;. I hope don&#039;t come off overly critical of the church, because I&#039;m not. I&#039;m an active member and enjoy many aspects of the gospel in my life. I just feel that it can&#039;t fix everything like the analogy indicates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your post John&#8230;.. it hits home for me in that way too. I think the analogy is a good one ( even with the cornyness factor : P) I struggle at times to find where the &#8220;tool&#8221; fits in my life at times. I love it, and never plan on getting rid of it no matter what, because it has been such a good tool.</p>
<p>&#8211; some people would like their “old testimony” back. I remember times when I wanted that old testimony back so badly.  It’s like I wanted that world back where my tool worked for everything. &#8211;</p>
<p>I really like this part. I feel this a lot, even though there has been no major crisis in my life. On my mission the church seemed to be the solution for every problem in my life, and every doubt would easily dissipate. I find it harder these days to find all the answers from &#8220;the flashlight&#8221;. I hope don&#8217;t come off overly critical of the church, because I&#8217;m not. I&#8217;m an active member and enjoy many aspects of the gospel in my life. I just feel that it can&#8217;t fix everything like the analogy indicates.</p>
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		<title>By: John Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45807</link>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45807</guid>
		<description>Jordan, 

Great post.

For me, the church is like a group of old friends, the oldest friends I have (sometimes in terms of age as well as in length of time I&#039;ve known them!)  I have gained a lot of new friends through the years, but I still associate with the old friends, even though some of them don&#039;t vote the way I do, dress the way I do, or think the same way I do in more fundamental ways.  So because I like my old friends I still invite them to Christmas parties, and they still invite me to barbecues on the Fourth of July.  

Some of my new friends hit it off with my old friends, and some don&#039;t.  My newer friends and I have more in common in terms of the way we vote, dress, and think, but they don&#039;t know me the same way my old friends do.  My new friends weren&#039;t there the first time I biffed it on my bike and scraped my knees.  My old friends were. They were the ones who put Bactine on my cuts and wiped away my tears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jordan, </p>
<p>Great post.</p>
<p>For me, the church is like a group of old friends, the oldest friends I have (sometimes in terms of age as well as in length of time I&#8217;ve known them!)  I have gained a lot of new friends through the years, but I still associate with the old friends, even though some of them don&#8217;t vote the way I do, dress the way I do, or think the same way I do in more fundamental ways.  So because I like my old friends I still invite them to Christmas parties, and they still invite me to barbecues on the Fourth of July.  </p>
<p>Some of my new friends hit it off with my old friends, and some don&#8217;t.  My newer friends and I have more in common in terms of the way we vote, dress, and think, but they don&#8217;t know me the same way my old friends do.  My new friends weren&#8217;t there the first time I biffed it on my bike and scraped my knees.  My old friends were. They were the ones who put Bactine on my cuts and wiped away my tears.</p>
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		<title>By: captainmelody</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45802</link>
		<dc:creator>captainmelody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45802</guid>
		<description>Great analogy. I&#039;m still looking for the button to turn on the light. I think it may be out of batteries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analogy. I&#8217;m still looking for the button to turn on the light. I think it may be out of batteries.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Rod</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45797</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45797</guid>
		<description>I look at the church as a place to serve, a sandbox if you will, where I can put my efforts to grow. Playing in a sandbox as a little kid can build muscles and inspire creativity. D&amp;C 20:7 talks about how the commandments God gave Joseph Smith inspired him--I believe it is the same idea with the Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look at the church as a place to serve, a sandbox if you will, where I can put my efforts to grow. Playing in a sandbox as a little kid can build muscles and inspire creativity. D&amp;C 20:7 talks about how the commandments God gave Joseph Smith inspired him&#8211;I believe it is the same idea with the Church.</p>
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		<title>By: working mother</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45788</link>
		<dc:creator>working mother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 11:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45788</guid>
		<description>It is a good analogy.  I think all institutions and churches are tools.  They help us to forge bonds, make community, find purpose, get along (or not), make sense out of our lives.  Sometimes tools do wear out and have to be discarded, sometimes they can be smelted down and reforged, sometimes we use them for evil purposes and to destroy, sometimes we use them for good purposes and to build.

Implicit in the idea of the church as a tool is that it is manmade.  Since we made it, we can remake it, destroy it, abandon it, if we feel it is no longer useful to us.

Great analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a good analogy.  I think all institutions and churches are tools.  They help us to forge bonds, make community, find purpose, get along (or not), make sense out of our lives.  Sometimes tools do wear out and have to be discarded, sometimes they can be smelted down and reforged, sometimes we use them for evil purposes and to destroy, sometimes we use them for good purposes and to build.</p>
<p>Implicit in the idea of the church as a tool is that it is manmade.  Since we made it, we can remake it, destroy it, abandon it, if we feel it is no longer useful to us.</p>
<p>Great analogy.</p>
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		<title>By: jjackson</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/11/07/the-church-as-a-tool/#comment-45784</link>
		<dc:creator>jjackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2855#comment-45784</guid>
		<description>This analogy REALLY speaks to me, but I actually need some time to digest....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This analogy REALLY speaks to me, but I actually need some time to digest&#8230;.</p>
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