I believe Jesus was “sinless” – but I also think he probably did things (especially as he was growing up as a child and adolescent, but even in his ministry) that we mistakenly would classify as sin now. I think that’s probably why we don’t have much of the record outside of the little snippets that were recorded – since a prophet is not accepted in his own country, due to over-judgmental people.

Sorry, I know this is off topic from the original post. I think I’ll open up this topic for my blog. Stop on by!

Here are some good talks on the subject
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=8481759235d0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

and another (although not by a member of the quorum of the twelve apostles)
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=9842b850e318b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

I have to believe that Jesus acted appropriately/perfectly in all things. The scriptures are accounts of what happened, most of which was not actually written down until many years after Jesus’ death. In order to have faith that Jesus had the ability to enact the atonement, which required a “sinless” sacrifice, we have to believe, have faith that He was sinless. Anything less than that would not produce the faith in us required to take advantage of that marvelous gift. If we can’t believe that Jesus was sinless, then we can’t believe that he can save us.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Try this link – at least for my own take on how I am trying to move forward in that process:

http://mormonmatters.org/2008/12/31/spiritual-resolutions-my-practical-plan/

Also, you might like this one:

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/01/rethinking-repentance.html

I used to think that if the trial went further than I *thought* it should, God wasn’t paying attention or I wasn’t doing something right — that I wasn’t trying hard enough. But you know what? All I can do is the best I can do. If I know that I am doing that and the trial still persists does that mean that God or his scriptures are wrong? No. My faith is that God is just, compassionate, merciful and a host of other adjectives. If I believe that how could I blame Him? I do not profess to know the mind of God. But if I have faith in Him and faith in His Son, then I know that everything will be ok.

I view the scripture quoted above as meaning that we will never experience in this life something (be it trial, temptation or other) that would “force” us to turn away from Heavenly Father. That we have it in ourselves to always choose the Lord no matter how hard it might get to do so – as long as we are mentally capable. Are there challenges in this life that cause some to “crack” (I never really like describing it that way) and make us incapable of making those decisions? Of course there are. If that happens will the Lord hold us accountable? Of course He won’t. As long as we are mentally able, there is nothing in this life that would take away our free agency to choose His way. Nothing.

That’s my 2 cents.

“No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.”

That scripture doesn’t talk about “giving us what we can handle.” It talks about temptation. God will not allow us to be tempted so much as we would not be able to choose for ourselves. That takes away free agency. So this scripture isn’t about “giving us trials” that we can “handle.” It’s about God promising we will always have the stregnth to choose when we are tempted, and never be so tempted that we are unable to say “No.”

I don’t understand why people got something else out of it. Perhaps people need something to hope for? All I know is that those who commit suicide got more than they could handle…right? So where was this scripture then?

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-wouldnt-jesus-do.html

From one of the comments:

“Perfection” is the end result of continued progress, NOT an absence of mistakes. The gift of forgiveness changes the standard.

Another one that might interest you:

http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2007/12/problem-with-popular-perceptions-of.html

Your final sentence is exactly what I was considering. I hope I gain a better understanding of it in the future.

I know that the Lord loves me and is concerned with me and my life. Does that mean he takes away all suffering? No. Definately not, but, He is always there for me when I ‘pray always’. The example given about same gender attraction is not, in my opinion, helpful. My sister-in-law has never married. She handles this situation admirably. But to imply that the ‘temptation’ to not commit fornication is any less hard for her than for those suffering from same-gender attraction is unfair. Sexual attraction is a powerful thing and to remain chaste and virtuous requires diligence and faith and prayer regardless of the gender to whom one is attracted. That being said, I do not want anyone to think that those who commit suicide or in some other way seem to not handle the situation have somehow failed. We all fail in someway or another in the choices we make. That is where the beauty of the Atonement comes into our lives. Heavenly Father knew we would fail at times, so He provided a Savior for us. I know my post sounds contradictory, but this is how I see it: God provides a way to resist temptation and a way to endure trials. He also knows that we will make mistakes along the way. I hope this makes sense to someone. I really enjoy reading these posts and enlightening myself with others opnions on things. I also love the way no one is belittling others for their opnions, even when they differ. Thanks for a great site to study and learn.

I wonder if there should be a greater examination of what it means for Him to make “a way to escape” – of if we simply should chalk it up to a mistranslation / false doctrine.

I know the response to that — well, people make the decision and choose to sin. They could resist right? Maybe in theory, but the testing is obviously waaaaaaaaaaay too intense or else surely 1 other person of the 70 billion that passed through mortal existence so far would have been perfect.

I agree…if they do accept all the axioms, they would be facing some serious problems. However, I would dispute most of the statements on doctrinal terms.

In other words, provided one accepts Mormonism as the gospel truth, the New Testament also…then “the truth shall make you free.”

As far as the drunk driving accident, I don’t think “not judging” her and accepting the stated axiom are mutually exclusive. Since all of us need the mercy of God in different ways and I do not fully realize how mercy would work in her life, I would sorrow her suicide greatly. I would wish she didn’t do it. I might even wonder about the state of her soul. But as someone who knows good people who, because of circumstances that were (largely) beyond their control, took their own life, I would ultimately find comfort in the reality that God knows their hearts and what they wanted to accomplish.

I maintain my original position–this teaching, although commonly heard in meeting houses throughout the church, is a misinterpretation of various scriptures that are true, but the teaching itself fails to arrive at the truth. Sadly.

Here’s another example–is the burden of same-sex attraction a trial too great for mortals to handle in the context of the gospel? Let’s start with a few axioms, then see where we get:

For the purposes of discussion only, let us assume that:
1. Same-sex attraction is not mutable. That means that once gender-attraction is determined, it is permanent. We’ll leave aside questions of when or how this occurs. It’s actually irrelevant for this discussion.
2. Fornication (for all individuals) is a sin outside of marriage (law of chastity).
3. Same-sex marriage is prohibited in the plan of God, for reasons that are irrelevant to this discussion, but are presumed (for the purposes of this discussion ONLY) to be immutable also.
4. Because of axiom 3, axiom 2 cannot circumvented via marriage for same-sex couples. Again, law of chastity.
5. Libido is a fundamental motivator of human behavior in many instances of human interaction.

If 1 and 5 are both true, then given 2-4, we have a real mess, and are likely to see a situation where those who accept all of these axioms and are attracted to the same-sex are likely to feel intense duress. Perhaps more than they can handle. This is a situation where they could easily be put in a position where their suffering is more than they could bear. Their temptations as well.

Another example: drunk driver, middle of the day, slams his truck into a family van on vacation, killing everyone except the mother, leaving her partially disabled (unable to work) and offs himself. The drunk is uninsured, driving a stolen vehicle, and the mother gets no insurance money. Her husband had a modest life insurance policy, which just manages to cover her immediate hospital bills, and the funeral costs for her now deceased husband and four children. Who would blame her for deciding that life had become unlivable. Whatever her actions, I would not judge them.