“I also believe that children can sin (i.e. do wrong/do something that stops or limits their growth), but the atonement covers them.”

Wouldn’t that be the definition of transgression, not sin?

The Lord said, “They cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me” (see D&C 29:46–47)

How, exactly, are Satan’s forces leashed prior to 8? Spirit leashes? Signed contracts that evil spirits agree to leave these folks alone and play by the rules of heaven?

Unlikely. Perhaps guardian angels could protect the younger ones, but that doesn’t seem right to then abandon them at age 8, why not just keep protecting them?

I can’t follow that logic of mystical forces playing by worldly constraints like leashes or agreements.

More logical is that the 7 year old can’t be held accountable, so it is not sin. I still think if evil ones did have strategies towards individuals, they’d still try to get 6 and 7 year olds on the internet, hook them on bad stuff as an investment in temptation for accountable years. Unfortunately, my son (age 10 now) is still dealing with things he was exposed to at age 5 that will probably be a test for him his whole life. It didn’t get washed away at baptism, and there were no leashes protecting him at 5. Instead, he now has to learn what accountability means, but he is old enough to understand that concept, bless his pea-picking heart.

I don’t know what happened, but my son made some drastic changes in his personality when he turned 6 months. It seemed like three months later it happened again. Once he was fifteen months then his personality really took a change. At that time the only thing that seemed to matter was doggies and Thomas the Train. Now, a year later he’s almost three and couldn’t care less about Thomas, these days it’s Mickey Mouse. His attitude is what alarms me the most however. He used to be so sweet, but now all he does is fight and complain. He’s also started to become dishonest. When I tell him not to do something, he waits until I’m not looking and then does it anyway, when I confront him about it he denies even though I watched him do it. I would like to believe that Satan is making him do it, but to be honest I just think his brain is forming and this a natural part of child development.

That is quite a strong word, and I agree about it bordering on abusive. Fwiw, I think hormones as a boy in adolescence do a lot more “unleashing” than one turning eight. Personally, I think we are all capable of plenty of bad stuff without Satan being unleashed on us… and this is definitely speculation but I think Satan is limited to suggestions/thoughts, and we do the rest.

I also believe that children can sin (i.e. do wrong/do something that stops or limits their growth), but the atonement covers them.

One of the more horrific and abusive of Mormon teachings and the straw that broke me. I will not have my children terrorized into obedience with fear of super-natural monsters. There is plenty of bad in the real world for them to deal with, and I do believe children are capable of choosing good without fear of Satan ‘getting’ them.

Children do not need this kind of abuse to be good.

Dave. Adam. Teacher. Stake Primary Presidency. Baptism is not a covenant to repent, it is a covenant to obey. If you obey, then you can by pass repentance altogether but, no matter what, you can’t bypass baptism. If you covenant to repent then you covenant to sin.

“the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little cchildren are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin;” (Mor. 8:8)

Folks. This is not about – do little children do things that are wrong? Of course they do. They specialize in it. It is not – do little children know between right and wrong? They do to an extent. They know what displeases mortals with whom they have contact. They, however, know nothing about the withdrawal of the Spirit.

“wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them;” (Mor. 8:8)

By nature, little children should also be carnal, sensual, and devilish. (the curse of Adam) But they are not. Why? Because God said so.

“And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old,” (D&C 68:27)

When God says eight years old, that is what He means. Which is to say that between 0 and 7 364/365 years they are not ‘sick’. They are whole. They are not capable of committing sin. To baptize a child during these years is solemn mockery before God. I don’t know, for sure, what that means but it sounds terrible. Understand! A discussion of baptism is a discussion about well defined law. So put away your psychology books.

Baptism is definitely about repentence and having sins washed away. For adults, it represents having past sins washed away and covenenting with God to have future sins washed away based on repentence. For kids, it’s only about the covenant, since their past sins are swallowed up in the atonement.

So if you’re teaching kids who are going to be baptized, don’t say, “It represents your past sins washed away,” rather, “It represents Christ washing away your sins for the rest of your life, as long as you keep trying to repent and do what Jesus wants you to do.”

I happened to fall just right so that I had to wait a whole month. To think of all the 8-year-old mischief I was accountable for . . .

Actually, I remember being terrified a few months later (the first “sin” I remember being truly scared about) when my mom made this delicious dessert for a ward party and I, umm, messed it up a bit by sticking my finger in the middle and digging out some of the topping–and then lying to her about it!

I couldn’t figure out how I was going to find my way out of that one, thus beginning my life of cringing just a little bit every time I hear something telling me to repent. I don’t know why, but it always seemed like repentance necessitated considerable pain. I have learned, not without some work, that it doesn’t always need to, and can be a joyful thing in at least some instances. I can’t say what it was, but as a child I saw repentance as requiring serious sorrow, and avoided it like the plague.

That (to get to my point) is why I have to agree with The Teacher tonight as well.

Also, as per Arthur’s statement (#9), the verb “repent” as used in the New Testament (metanoeo) means to change the way you think or perceive, with the strong implications that your previous viewpoint was wrong and that your repentance leads to a different course of action (cf. John the Baptist: “Bear fruits worthy of repentance!”). I think that the goal of repentance is to change how we perceive things so that we come to think like Christ and thus act like Him. As such, it is a daily process, and one that will last our whole lives (hence the repeated refrain in the scriptures to “endure to the end”).

So, no, I don’t think 8 is too young either for baptism or for repentance. It’s certainly not too young for the gift of the Holy Ghost, which is inseparably tied to baptism. Do we tell then our kids that they’re little sinners? No; we tell them that baptism allows them a continual ‘get out of jail free’ card so long as they keep striving to be like Christ. I think (and hope) that we’ll all be pleasantly surprised at how large a factor grace is (vs. our works) when we get to the other side, so long as we don’t give up on ourselves and/or God. ..bruce..

http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/01/rethinking-repentance/

First, faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ; second, baptism by immersion; third, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost; fourth, repentance.

When it was written, there basically were no children getting baptized. It was written for adults.