Bueller?…..

Bueller?…..

Bueller?…..

~Andrew S
*played and won*

Thanks again.

I will leave 800 for someone who wants the final word.

It truly has been fun while it lasted.

Can I be a minion?

http://craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm#Unique%20Similarities

I bet if we read Swedenborg’s works, we might just find an answer to this question. Maybe on this matter he had a clearer vision than Joseph. As Joseph said, “Emanuel Swedenborg had a view of the world to come, but for daily food he perished.”(Statement in 1839 by Joseph Smith to Edward Hunter, a Swedenborgian convert who later became the presiding bishop of the Church)

I disagree with Miller’s assessment that it is unlikely that Joseph would have been familiar with Swedenborg’s teachings, just because it is unlikely that he had read them. People could have conveyed this information on to him, just as the missionaries teach it to those who have not read D&C 76, 131, etc. Either way, it is an interesting read.

Yes, I am aware of what Elder McConkie said. The scripture do not support what I hope for. However, I have a letter wherein President McKay said we don’t have a doctrine regarding this movement within the degrees of glory.

We only have a small amount, a very small amount, of information about the degrees of glory and how the Lord will deal with His sons and daughter in the eternal realms. I would never discuss, and certainly not teach about progression between kingdoms in a church setting.

Here is a link to the Green Beret song for those interested in hearing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4-tOqLH94

Regarding sheep and those who have shown forth greater faith than others–I wonder if it might have something to do with their age and experience. We know Jesus was the Firstborn. Could that be part of the equation? I don’t know, and I am doing a lot of speculation which is not my usual way.

The bottom line for me is: the church is everything it claims to be. The Savior gave many parables that give some light on why His followers come on go from the path that leads to eternal life. I don’t like to use these parables to judge others. I hold the hope out that nearly everyone who is now estranged from the kingdom will find their way back.

I have been given an undeniable testimony of the reality and truthfulness of Mormonism and I have hoped by sharing this with those in the Bloggernacle it might make a difference to some.

Regarding investigators–I am looking forward to serving a mission with my wife at some period. The Book of Mormon is the key to conversion. I believe that when the BoM is properly presented those who are ready will find their way into the kingdom. I additionally believe that it is the primary tool for reconversion of existing members who have strayed off of the path (as I did).

Not everyone is ready to accept the claims of the restoration in this life. We need to remember that the greatest field of labor is on the other side of the veil.

It is one thing to have question and doubts about the church, but it is entirely different thing to oppose and fight against it. I only know of a few who are coming out in open rebellion against God who were once His followers.

I’ll be preparing to travel this week so my time is limited. I’ve enjoyed the exchange, it’s invigorating.

Lastly, I don’t know that I agree or disagree with how you choose to interpret “sheep” as intended by the Saviors analogies to our relationships with him. I am also not sure that this distinction effects the point I was trying to make. Truman G. Madsen in the speech you cited basically stated that our spiritual inclinations are relics of our culture and heritage in the pre-existence. Because of this, the idea is that when we hear truths on Earth, even though we cannot recall our former existence, these truths will resonate within us as familiar voices, ie the voice of the Savior/Good Shepherd. I was referring to his point here which ultimately requires that each person will recognize the truth when they hear it, as we have all heard it before, but we will still need to decide wether we will accept it or reject it.

My point is that while this all may be instructive to the LDS members who hold to the Mormon beliefs that we lived in a Mormonistic society before we were born, to the non-member or investigator the reasoning is subject to the underlying assumptions that Mormonism is correct. In other words the evidence is subject to the conclusion. Independently however, this rational does not provide the investigator with a solid basis from which they can be instructed on how to recognize the spirit. In other words it does little to enhance the spiritual experience by giving definition and setting expectation, rather it amounts to belief and circular logic.

Yes, I have. You just need to do all the dishes (after you eat of course) at closing time, vacuum the floors and lock up. Oh and you can bring home any left overs you have as long as you wipe down all the tables too. ENJOY!!

Fine. Pick anything you want off the dollar menu at Wendy’s. You get three items plus a water (not the bottled water, the one they give you for free). Oh yeah….don’t forget to bring $3 and some change to pay for it too.

Now that we have the figured out, don’t bring up the meal again or I’ll have one of your servants murder you on your throne.

Hey I heard that. Any better ideas?

I agree with the apostle Peter when he said:

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear

It does get confusing. In the end, you’re right that we can only follow what we’ve been given. Yet, different people are given different things, and we can’t be sure that any of these things are necessarily the one. We are biased to feeling that we have the one to rule them all, but this bias only tells us about ourselves and our biases, not really about reality.

In the end, there probably is one to rule them all (it could be that all of the ones we have aren’t it…or that one of the ones out here is one of it…who knows?)

I just think in the end, not only should we take our chances, but shouldn’t we allow others to take theirs? Shouldn’t we do this humbly, without presuming too much of the others?

We can only follow what we’ve been given. But the Book of Mormon teaches that once we have been born again then we are on the high road to receiving all that the Father hath.

But you’re saying I might be following a lesser god and even if I arrive at the best he has I will still be receiving less than those who followed a greater god.

That gets confusing. So I’ll just have to take my chances.