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	<title>Comments on: No More Strangers</title>
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		<title>By: micah</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87818</link>
		<dc:creator>micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87818</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  Thinking about the SL Valley singles ward bishopric member who asked an elder not to attend its meetings, but to go elsewhere.  The elder is socially clueless, and the bishopric decided that he wasn&#039;t the marriageable material sought by the ward.  Some reach out for the one; others look out for the 90 and 9.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  Thinking about the SL Valley singles ward bishopric member who asked an elder not to attend its meetings, but to go elsewhere.  The elder is socially clueless, and the bishopric decided that he wasn&#8217;t the marriageable material sought by the ward.  Some reach out for the one; others look out for the 90 and 9.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87761</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87761</guid>
		<description>KC, I loved that talk; it literally is my current &quot;favorite of all time&quot;.  

I also like what you have said in this post.  All issues of practical implementation and cultural issues aside, what you wrote here is important and needs to be internalized.  All of the issues that cloud the central point would evaporate, imo, if we really, truly, deeply loved one another.  Not everyone would return, but the issues themselves would disappear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KC, I loved that talk; it literally is my current &#8220;favorite of all time&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I also like what you have said in this post.  All issues of practical implementation and cultural issues aside, what you wrote here is important and needs to be internalized.  All of the issues that cloud the central point would evaporate, imo, if we really, truly, deeply loved one another.  Not everyone would return, but the issues themselves would disappear.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Reeves</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87711</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Reeves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87711</guid>
		<description>Although I agree that some issues are non-negotiable I am not sure this means that no effort should be made to fellowship or love those who have those disagreements.  It seems like your distinction suggests that some people we reach out to in the hopes of bringing them back, others we reach out to because we love them.  Maybe reaching to bring people back is bad as it is, because there is another agenda.  Perhaps the emphasis should always be just believing that people everywhere need help and that we can help them, even if it is not to do with the Church.  

In the ward I go to the sin thing is not a problem, in that we ignore everyone that comes in; smartly dressed or wasted. But on Sunday a girl came to Church for the first time in a long time who was 8 1/2 months pregnant and not married (shock! horror!).  However, it was so weird to see everyone run round this girl and show her kindness.  So it got me thinking that maybe awkwardness stops people, or causes Mormons to be unfriendly or say stupid unthoughtful things.  The bump was an easy talking point, and talk they did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I agree that some issues are non-negotiable I am not sure this means that no effort should be made to fellowship or love those who have those disagreements.  It seems like your distinction suggests that some people we reach out to in the hopes of bringing them back, others we reach out to because we love them.  Maybe reaching to bring people back is bad as it is, because there is another agenda.  Perhaps the emphasis should always be just believing that people everywhere need help and that we can help them, even if it is not to do with the Church.  </p>
<p>In the ward I go to the sin thing is not a problem, in that we ignore everyone that comes in; smartly dressed or wasted. But on Sunday a girl came to Church for the first time in a long time who was 8 1/2 months pregnant and not married (shock! horror!).  However, it was so weird to see everyone run round this girl and show her kindness.  So it got me thinking that maybe awkwardness stops people, or causes Mormons to be unfriendly or say stupid unthoughtful things.  The bump was an easy talking point, and talk they did.</p>
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		<title>By: jenifer</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87638</link>
		<dc:creator>jenifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87638</guid>
		<description>I have worked hard to repent from the major sins in my life after 20 years of inactivity (I still have the smelly problem which I am working on) - I know I am not a jack Mormon, just one who is still working to be better.  Anyway, I decided a long time ago that I refuse to let some jackball, who doesn&#039;t even really know me or what&#039;s in my heart, keep me out of the Church and the Kingdom because I am offended by what they say or do! I don&#039;t have to answer to them! Carry On!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked hard to repent from the major sins in my life after 20 years of inactivity (I still have the smelly problem which I am working on) &#8211; I know I am not a jack Mormon, just one who is still working to be better.  Anyway, I decided a long time ago that I refuse to let some jackball, who doesn&#8217;t even really know me or what&#8217;s in my heart, keep me out of the Church and the Kingdom because I am offended by what they say or do! I don&#8217;t have to answer to them! Carry On!!</p>
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		<title>By: Goldarn</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87606</link>
		<dc:creator>Goldarn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87606</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty clear that there are some sins that are accepted in the church, and some that are not.
Adultery: Ostracized (generally)
Drinking: Ostracized (if you&#039;re caught)
Smoking: Ostracized (since we can smell you)
Mocking people from the pulpit: Okay, if you happen to be the &quot;beloved SP&quot;
Demanding people tell you why they don&#039;t want to come to church picnic: Okay, because no one else will be activities chair.
Generally being a bully: Okay for a teenager, if the parents are either &quot;good people&quot; or we desperately want to keep them in the church.

It can be hard to stomach, as a missionary, hearing lectures about how &quot;God cannot look upon sin with least degree of allowance&quot; from a man who yells at you and calls you worthless because you aren&#039;t baptizing.

Too often, the causes of inactivity are believed to be minor and trivial. I&#039;ve known active mormons who have moved out of stakes because they can&#039;t tolerate the behavior of the SP. When the housing market isn&#039;t so good, what&#039;s the alternative? When the other teens make it clear than your children aren&#039;t welcome, what can you do? Especially when the bishop just wants to avoid problems, and not actually fix them.

It may sound like a have grudges, but I&#039;m sure I have no more than most. I&#039;ve just been in the church my whole life, and I&#039;ve seen people come and go, and claiming that they have minor or trivial reasons for doing so is just insulting and judgmental. Such an attitude towards our spirit brothers and sisters is contemptible. Sadly, that kind of attitude is one of those sins that the church members tolerate all too easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty clear that there are some sins that are accepted in the church, and some that are not.<br />
Adultery: Ostracized (generally)<br />
Drinking: Ostracized (if you&#8217;re caught)<br />
Smoking: Ostracized (since we can smell you)<br />
Mocking people from the pulpit: Okay, if you happen to be the &#8220;beloved SP&#8221;<br />
Demanding people tell you why they don&#8217;t want to come to church picnic: Okay, because no one else will be activities chair.<br />
Generally being a bully: Okay for a teenager, if the parents are either &#8220;good people&#8221; or we desperately want to keep them in the church.</p>
<p>It can be hard to stomach, as a missionary, hearing lectures about how &#8220;God cannot look upon sin with least degree of allowance&#8221; from a man who yells at you and calls you worthless because you aren&#8217;t baptizing.</p>
<p>Too often, the causes of inactivity are believed to be minor and trivial. I&#8217;ve known active mormons who have moved out of stakes because they can&#8217;t tolerate the behavior of the SP. When the housing market isn&#8217;t so good, what&#8217;s the alternative? When the other teens make it clear than your children aren&#8217;t welcome, what can you do? Especially when the bishop just wants to avoid problems, and not actually fix them.</p>
<p>It may sound like a have grudges, but I&#8217;m sure I have no more than most. I&#8217;ve just been in the church my whole life, and I&#8217;ve seen people come and go, and claiming that they have minor or trivial reasons for doing so is just insulting and judgmental. Such an attitude towards our spirit brothers and sisters is contemptible. Sadly, that kind of attitude is one of those sins that the church members tolerate all too easily.</p>
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		<title>By: KG McB</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87605</link>
		<dc:creator>KG McB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87605</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify, the white shirt thing was thrown in as an example of how some leaders in the church are honestly striving to teach respect to God, and ask their congregations to conform out of respect, IMO, in hopes the symbolism translates to true respect in people&#039;s hearts and minds.  But I have never been a fan of that whole thing.

I remember my dad allowing a 16 year old to bless the sacrament with pink-dyed hair.  Several members were outraged, but my dad really felt it was important to that individual who was rebelling to know he was cared about as a person, and was wanted in the group.  That young man later grew and matured, served and mission and was married in the temple, and became a Branch President.  Not all because of my dad, but a lot of it was, and it was important at a critical time in his life he wasn&#039;t shunned from the church.

I think there are few central &quot;non-negotiable&quot; issues to draw a line in the sand.  Even if people aren&#039;t worthy to enter the temple as judged by a judge in Israel, they should still be welcome in the sunday worship services...in fact, that is exactly where they need to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify, the white shirt thing was thrown in as an example of how some leaders in the church are honestly striving to teach respect to God, and ask their congregations to conform out of respect, IMO, in hopes the symbolism translates to true respect in people&#8217;s hearts and minds.  But I have never been a fan of that whole thing.</p>
<p>I remember my dad allowing a 16 year old to bless the sacrament with pink-dyed hair.  Several members were outraged, but my dad really felt it was important to that individual who was rebelling to know he was cared about as a person, and was wanted in the group.  That young man later grew and matured, served and mission and was married in the temple, and became a Branch President.  Not all because of my dad, but a lot of it was, and it was important at a critical time in his life he wasn&#8217;t shunned from the church.</p>
<p>I think there are few central &#8220;non-negotiable&#8221; issues to draw a line in the sand.  Even if people aren&#8217;t worthy to enter the temple as judged by a judge in Israel, they should still be welcome in the sunday worship services&#8230;in fact, that is exactly where they need to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew S</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87600</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87600</guid>
		<description>re 1:

The problem I see is...what is necessary to a Christlike life of wearing a white shirt? If the church is pushing people away simply because they wear colored shirts, that&#039;s sad. That&#039;s kinda pathetic on the members&#039; parts. The rest of the message you have isn&#039;t too disagreeable in intention.

to the article in general:

I think we need to distinguish a difference in the types of less actives or inactive members. For example, it may be true that there are inactives that can/should be reached because of alienation due to some rogue and petty part of church culture (like looking or speaking differently)...but how are we going to reach those who left or who stopped going because of more central reasons (disagreement and displeasure with doctrine). While we can easily be more flexible on &quot;white shirt issues&quot; (because these are not central), other issues are non-negotiable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re 1:</p>
<p>The problem I see is&#8230;what is necessary to a Christlike life of wearing a white shirt? If the church is pushing people away simply because they wear colored shirts, that&#8217;s sad. That&#8217;s kinda pathetic on the members&#8217; parts. The rest of the message you have isn&#8217;t too disagreeable in intention.</p>
<p>to the article in general:</p>
<p>I think we need to distinguish a difference in the types of less actives or inactive members. For example, it may be true that there are inactives that can/should be reached because of alienation due to some rogue and petty part of church culture (like looking or speaking differently)&#8230;but how are we going to reach those who left or who stopped going because of more central reasons (disagreement and displeasure with doctrine). While we can easily be more flexible on &#8220;white shirt issues&#8221; (because these are not central), other issues are non-negotiable.</p>
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		<title>By: KG McB</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/30/no-more-strangers/#comment-87594</link>
		<dc:creator>KG McB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6079#comment-87594</guid>
		<description>I think this is interesting.  I think more of this teaching should be emphasized in the church, to welcome everyone and not judge others unrighteously, since we all have our own things to deal with.

I think the problem is inherent in the teachings of the church, however.  We are asked to shed our &quot;natural&quot; self and become more like Christ. Doesn&#039;t that mean everyone needs to do that?  If I&#039;m doing that, you should do that.  If I have to wear a white shirt, I should ask you to wear a white shirt too.  If I view you as a lost sheep, doesn&#039;t that mean I think I&#039;m right (in the fold) and you&#039;re wrong (lost) so I better go out and save you from yourself?

The thing that needs to be taught and absorbed by members is that others are no more lost than we are without Christ.  So let&#039;s all get together and worship and you bring all your goods and bads and teach me, not come and shed your bads so you can be more like me.  I just think it is difficult if you are active in the church to not feel others are &quot;wrong&quot;. And that mentality is a barrier to sincerely loving others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is interesting.  I think more of this teaching should be emphasized in the church, to welcome everyone and not judge others unrighteously, since we all have our own things to deal with.</p>
<p>I think the problem is inherent in the teachings of the church, however.  We are asked to shed our &#8220;natural&#8221; self and become more like Christ. Doesn&#8217;t that mean everyone needs to do that?  If I&#8217;m doing that, you should do that.  If I have to wear a white shirt, I should ask you to wear a white shirt too.  If I view you as a lost sheep, doesn&#8217;t that mean I think I&#8217;m right (in the fold) and you&#8217;re wrong (lost) so I better go out and save you from yourself?</p>
<p>The thing that needs to be taught and absorbed by members is that others are no more lost than we are without Christ.  So let&#8217;s all get together and worship and you bring all your goods and bads and teach me, not come and shed your bads so you can be more like me.  I just think it is difficult if you are active in the church to not feel others are &#8220;wrong&#8221;. And that mentality is a barrier to sincerely loving others.</p>
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