Comments on: doubt http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/ A weekly podcast exploring Mormon culture and current events. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:18:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-96990 AdamF Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:56:06 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-96990 Thanks for the link Jen. Somehow I missed that one. Thanks for the link Jen. Somehow I missed that one.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-95834 Jen Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:12:04 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-95834 Here is an article that I came across on the Deseret News website: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705319185,00.html?pg=1 Here is an article that I came across on the Deseret News website:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705319185,00.html?pg=1

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-92116 AdamF Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:33:51 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-92116 Jen, I remember reading that when I was doing the lit review a few years ago. Some good info! Thanks for sharing the link. Jen, I remember reading that when I was doing the lit review a few years ago. Some good info! Thanks for sharing the link.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91906 Jen Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:48:16 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91906 Cowboy- Thanks for reading the article and for your input. I appreciate it. Cowboy-

Thanks for reading the article and for your input. I appreciate it.

]]> By: Cowboy http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91891 Cowboy Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:39:37 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91891 Jen: Just some feedback. I read the article, and was impressed with the research - but more importantly the fact that the matter of internet pornography, ie the kind being marketed in the home, is making it's way through the appropriate legal channels. While content on the internet is being distributed by global suppliers, and therefore posseses inherent regulatory challenges, I would be all in favor of regulatory restrictions which would provide zero content without a customer first making and completing a purchase. This is not my idea, by one I support which would at least greatly reduce the number of child consumers. I completely agree with you that the effects on family relationships are disasterous. Anyway, I figured you might just deserve some positive feedback as well as "constructive" criticism from time to time. Jen:

Just some feedback. I read the article, and was impressed with the research – but more importantly the fact that the matter of internet pornography, ie the kind being marketed in the home, is making it’s way through the appropriate legal channels. While content on the internet is being distributed by global suppliers, and therefore posseses inherent regulatory challenges, I would be all in favor of regulatory restrictions which would provide zero content without a customer first making and completing a purchase. This is not my idea, by one I support which would at least greatly reduce the number of child consumers. I completely agree with you that the effects on family relationships are disasterous.

Anyway, I figured you might just deserve some positive feedback as well as “constructive” criticism from time to time.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91875 Jen Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:37:01 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91875 For those interested, here is some research on pornography and its impact on marriage and family: http://www.heritage.org/research/family/tst111405a.cfm Included in this link is a link to the full research record as well For those interested, here is some research on pornography and its impact on marriage and family:

http://www.heritage.org/research/family/tst111405a.cfm

Included in this link is a link to the full research record as well

]]> By: GBSmith http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91730 GBSmith Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:09:18 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91730 Djinn, deep breaths, deep breaths. It's not fun or interesting when it gets personal. Djinn, deep breaths, deep breaths. It’s not fun or interesting when it gets personal.

]]> By: crazywomancreek http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91727 crazywomancreek Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:38:24 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91727 There is a very small subset of p*rn that is sex positive, that does take into account that there is something f'd up with people achieving sexual gratification at the expense of actors who are, in the majority, victims of sexual abuse. Annie Sprinkle, Betty Dodson, Susie Bright et al. It's a start. I know this is veering widely away from the original topic but I wanted to differentiate mainstream, misogynistic p*rn and it's opposite, as long as it's being discussed. Djinn, I love you like mad but you are getting a little crazypants on this one. For the record, I am a big fan of sex positive erotica and my life hasn't degenerated, my credit is ok and so far so good on avoiding disease laden prostitutes in back alleys... There is a very small subset of p*rn that is sex positive, that does take into account that there is something f’d up with people achieving sexual gratification at the expense of actors who are, in the majority, victims of sexual abuse. Annie Sprinkle, Betty Dodson, Susie Bright et al. It’s a start. I know this is veering widely away from the original topic but I wanted to differentiate mainstream, misogynistic p*rn and it’s opposite, as long as it’s being discussed.
Djinn, I love you like mad but you are getting a little crazypants on this one.
For the record, I am a big fan of sex positive erotica and my life hasn’t degenerated, my credit is ok and so far so good on avoiding disease laden prostitutes in back alleys…

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91723 AdamF Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:27:11 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91723 I'm also wondering, when porn became legal in those countries, what else took place? Other variables? Perhaps there are countries that had a "free the porn" movement that involved nothing else... I would like to know, either way. I’m also wondering, when porn became legal in those countries, what else took place? Other variables? Perhaps there are countries that had a “free the porn” movement that involved nothing else… I would like to know, either way.

]]> By: Cowboy http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91721 Cowboy Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:16:43 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91721 Djinn: While I clearly raised objection to Jens assumption that the abuses inflicted by Mr. Pratt upon a seminary student was the end result of an addiction to pornography, your off the cuff stat's on the correlation between pornography and sex crimes in other nations leaves some stones unturned. Does your study take into account pornography production? In other words, where do the women come from? Were they willing volunteers/participants? If these factors have not been considered then your figures are meaningless. Some actual examples of which countries experienced this de-escalation would be helpful. Djinn:

While I clearly raised objection to Jens assumption that the abuses inflicted by Mr. Pratt upon a seminary student was the end result of an addiction to pornography, your off the cuff stat’s on the correlation between pornography and sex crimes in other nations leaves some stones unturned. Does your study take into account pornography production? In other words, where do the women come from? Were they willing volunteers/participants? If these factors have not been considered then your figures are meaningless. Some actual examples of which countries experienced this de-escalation would be helpful.

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91718 AdamF Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:34:20 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91718 That's pretty harsh djinn. Just sayin'. No one wants their kids raped by seminary teachers. Regarding the correlation, what were some of those countries? Unfortunately for your correlation there porn already is widely available here, so I suppose we'll have to find something else to make widely available and legal to further lower the percentage. Weed? ;) That’s pretty harsh djinn. Just sayin’. No one wants their kids raped by seminary teachers.

Regarding the correlation, what were some of those countries? Unfortunately for your correlation there porn already is widely available here, so I suppose we’ll have to find something else to make widely available and legal to further lower the percentage. Weed? ;)

]]> By: djinn http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91717 djinn Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:29:13 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91717 Jen, do you really care about actual small human beings (i.e., kids) or is all your energy spent in reinforcing some set impossible to change world view? I'm guessing the latter. Think about the children. On further thought, I suspect that your base belief is that the world revolves around you, and who cares about who is hurt by your beliefs. Cause, you know, world, you, etc. And so forth. Also. Jen, do you really care about actual small human beings (i.e., kids) or is all your energy spent in reinforcing some set impossible to change world view? I’m guessing the latter. Think about the children. On further thought, I suspect that your base belief is that the world revolves around you, and who cares about who is hurt by your beliefs. Cause, you know, world, you, etc. And so forth. Also.

]]> By: djinn http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91716 djinn Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:25:07 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91716 We have a number of countries where when porn became widely available sexual assaults all declined by 85%. That's some pretty spectacular correlation. On the other side, we have massive hand waving. I have children. I don't want them raped by their seminary teachers, or by anyone eles. Capiche? We have a number of countries where when porn became widely available sexual assaults all declined by 85%. That’s some pretty spectacular correlation. On the other side, we have massive hand waving. I have children. I don’t want them raped by their seminary teachers, or by anyone eles. Capiche?

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91694 AdamF Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:38:34 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91694 Here is an <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12863396" rel="nofollow">article</a> from yesterday--apparently he has been formerly charged now... "10 counts of forcible sodomy, seven counts of object rape and two counts of rape" ... not looking good. Looks like there will be another court appearance on Monday. If he IS indeed guilty, I hope he confesses, and as he said himself, that the "truth comes out at the appropriate time." Here is an article from yesterday–apparently he has been formerly charged now… “10 counts of forcible sodomy, seven counts of object rape and two counts of rape” … not looking good. Looks like there will be another court appearance on Monday. If he IS indeed guilty, I hope he confesses, and as he said himself, that the “truth comes out at the appropriate time.”

]]> By: Cowboy http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91667 Cowboy Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:28:29 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91667 JCP: Dexter was right on innocent until proven guilty, I think you have your courts confused. Innocent until proven guilty is the standard in a court of law, the bloggernacle however is in the court of public opion where I might add the standards are much lower - which is also what makes this court much more enjoyable. However, I think you are right that ultimately this post amounts to little more than gossip. Feeling forced to acknowledge this fact has given me a moment of pause, and having now considered the matter under serious introspection I have determined - "GAME ON!" JCP:

Dexter was right on innocent until proven guilty, I think you have your courts confused. Innocent until proven guilty is the standard in a court of law, the bloggernacle however is in the court of public opion where I might add the standards are much lower – which is also what makes this court much more enjoyable. However, I think you are right that ultimately this post amounts to little more than gossip. Feeling forced to acknowledge this fact has given me a moment of pause, and having now considered the matter under serious introspection I have determined – “GAME ON!”

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91609 AdamF Sat, 18 Jul 2009 04:35:50 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91609 Jen, some other people have complained about that as well, and it's really starting to irk me... perhaps I'll move to WordPress, I don't know. Thanks for reading though! I really need to think of something. If there are any IT pros out there who may know what is going on, please let me know! Jen, some other people have complained about that as well, and it’s really starting to irk me… perhaps I’ll move to WordPress, I don’t know. Thanks for reading though! I really need to think of something. If there are any IT pros out there who may know what is going on, please let me know!

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91605 Jen Sat, 18 Jul 2009 03:14:27 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91605 AdamF- Totally off topic, but hey it's comment #367 so who cares right?! Anyway, I have tried several times to post a comment on your website and it won't allow me to do so. I'm assuming that you did that intentionally? haha JK I think it is the filter we have on our computer, because as soon as I hit 'post comment' it kicks me off the page and when I reenable access it says 'sorry we could not process your request' (or something stupid like that). Anyway, I read through some of your posts and wanted to let you know I enjoyed them, especially the movie one. My favorite is when someone brings candy in the loud plastic wrap and reaches in every few minutes to get a piece. Gotta love that theater "noise"! AdamF-

Totally off topic, but hey it’s comment #367 so who cares right?! Anyway, I have tried several times to post a comment on your website and it won’t allow me to do so. I’m assuming that you did that intentionally? haha JK I think it is the filter we have on our computer, because as soon as I hit ‘post comment’ it kicks me off the page and when I reenable access it says ‘sorry we could not process your request’ (or something stupid like that).

Anyway, I read through some of your posts and wanted to let you know I enjoyed them, especially the movie one. My favorite is when someone brings candy in the loud plastic wrap and reaches in every few minutes to get a piece. Gotta love that theater “noise”!

]]> By: GBSmith http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91594 GBSmith Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:10:32 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91594 Dexter, In the spirit of Ray, blessed be his name, your sarcasm is getting in the way of rational and civil discourse, IMHO. Remember nastiness never was happiness. Dexter,

In the spirit of Ray, blessed be his name, your sarcasm is getting in the way of rational and civil discourse, IMHO. Remember nastiness never was happiness.

]]> By: Dexter http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91569 Dexter Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:56:33 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91569 361. I absolutely agree, Adam. And to disagree I think is impossible. Look, perhaps we all have a different line of what would bother us. Perhaps Adam is bothered by this but JPC would not be if it were his favorite teacher growing up. But if it were your dad, or your brother, I think it would affect anyone quite a bit. 361.

I absolutely agree, Adam. And to disagree I think is impossible. Look, perhaps we all have a different line of what would bother us. Perhaps Adam is bothered by this but JPC would not be if it were his favorite teacher growing up. But if it were your dad, or your brother, I think it would affect anyone quite a bit.

]]> By: Dexter http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91567 Dexter Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:53:49 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91567 JCP: Innocent until proven guilty has nothing to do with whether people chat about this situation at the dinner table, or on the internet, or anywhere else. It is a legal standard for the legal system. And if you are coming in here to teach us about how mormons shouldn't gossip it seems a little strange to me because your tone has appeared to me to be pretty judgmental and rude. But maybe that's just my interpretation. Anyway, no reason to run off already. Jen, I don't put any stock in the church firing him. I don't think that means anything. JCP:

Innocent until proven guilty has nothing to do with whether people chat about this situation at the dinner table, or on the internet, or anywhere else. It is a legal standard for the legal system.

And if you are coming in here to teach us about how mormons shouldn’t gossip it seems a little strange to me because your tone has appeared to me to be pretty judgmental and rude.

But maybe that’s just my interpretation. Anyway, no reason to run off already.

Jen, I don’t put any stock in the church firing him. I don’t think that means anything.

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91566 AdamF Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:53:10 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91566 Jen, you had better ask Natasha. Maybe she'll post it on her blog in a few weeks. Jen, you had better ask Natasha. Maybe she’ll post it on her blog in a few weeks.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91565 Jen Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:51:42 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91565 AdamF- I don't know, you tell me...you're the therapist! :) AdamF-

I don’t know, you tell me…you’re the therapist! :)

]]> By: AdamF http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91564 AdamF Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:50:44 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91564 Nah, welcome to the blog JCP. Pass Dex some lemonade though. If Pratt wasn't one of my teachers, and a favorite at that, I wouldn't care much either. You are right--good people DO do bad things, it just normally happens to someone I don't know. When you DO know them, things get emotional. Nah, welcome to the blog JCP. Pass Dex some lemonade though.

If Pratt wasn’t one of my teachers, and a favorite at that, I wouldn’t care much either. You are right–good people DO do bad things, it just normally happens to someone I don’t know. When you DO know them, things get emotional.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91563 Jen Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:48:35 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91563 JCP- "Did YOU see him?" YES I DID! And just so you know, he looks much better clothed than naked. :) I understand witnesses can lie, so if this person is lying hopefully it will be discovered. I agree with the innocent until proven guilty as well. The reality is we may not ever KNOW everything that happened, yet I still have to talk to my teens who are aware of the situation right now and try and help them not lose trust in people that seem to be doing so much good. This man has a lot of people that he has influenced, so it is affecting many. What do you think? Do you think he would have been fired from his job if there wasn't something to it? I can see the church suspending him until the investigation was complete, but to outright fire him seems too much if he is possibly innocent. JCP-

“Did YOU see him?”

YES I DID! And just so you know, he looks much better clothed than naked. :)

I understand witnesses can lie, so if this person is lying hopefully it will be discovered.

I agree with the innocent until proven guilty as well. The reality is we may not ever KNOW everything that happened, yet I still have to talk to my teens who are aware of the situation right now and try and help them not lose trust in people that seem to be doing so much good. This man has a lot of people that he has influenced, so it is affecting many.

What do you think? Do you think he would have been fired from his job if there wasn’t something to it? I can see the church suspending him until the investigation was complete, but to outright fire him seems too much if he is possibly innocent.

]]> By: Dexter http://mormonmatters.org/2009/07/13/doubt/#comment-91561 Dexter Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:47:53 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6256#comment-91561 Thanks for stopping by to spread some of that charity you have learned over the years. Thanks for stopping by to spread some of that charity you have learned over the years.

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