“men that are divorced and not remarried can’t be temple workers”

Is this a recent policy because 4 years ago I was a divorced, single temple worker.

Taking the the above into consideration, or any reasonable corallary that I may have overlooked, I am troubled by the fact that the Church keeps a dossier on the general membership, that really provides no “rights to information”. It seems very unreasonable that I could not request a copy of my file for example. What good could possibly come from this type of policy?

It is about providing the appropriate help if required to someone who has been disciplined, if the Lord dictates strong enough that person A should be Bishop then that is what will happen. the records help weigh up that decision and also provide additional support in that area if required. Ie, to ensure that they feel they have been forgiven, that they believe Christ, it the ward is experiencing difficulties that might conflict with the Bishops past the SP would emphasis that the mantle of Bishop has been placed on person A because it is the Lords will.

Is this always the case do some misinterprite, this is very likely perhaps because they are still not confident in there own capacity to interpret the promptings of the spirit.

Unless i’m mistaken no where would it say that person a who has committed this can’t serve in a,b or c

I should also note that with these situations one other factor is that these records are not always checked. For example in a ward I served in once there was a situation where I went to call someone to a calling and they told me that he was not allowed to. We then went and checked the membership record and saw the annotation.

I should also point out that I do not think the divorced situation ever applied to counselors in Bishoprics or stake presidencies.

God is apparently even less strict. He frequently sends children to the homes of known abusers.

Yep. Just like He frequently kills, maims, starves, and inflicts excruciating diseases on children as well. Or do you think that the full effects of agency are somehow suspended within the Church and its membership? ..bruce..

I will note that all the way back in 1988 — just a few years after my divorce and subsequent remarriage — I found myself as 2nd counselor to a bishop who himself was divorced and remarried (Santa Cruz 2nd Ward, Santa Cruz CA Stake). So at least 20 years ago, there were divorced/remarried men serving as bishops — so it’s hardly a ‘new’ development due to recent divorce rates.

Finally, as someone who has served twice in a bishopric (the 2nd time was several years ago back in Washington DC), I have no aspirations whatsoever to serve as a bishop, high counselor, stake presidency member, etc. I will cheerfully serve if called, but I’d much rather keep my head down and fill a less demanding position. ..bruce..

God is apparently even less strict. He frequently sends children to the homes of known abusers.

I would invite you to go back and re-read section 9, and consider the circumstance in it’s entirety, ie, Oliver being required to “study it in his mind” the unfamiliar eqyptian characters before he seek the confirmation of the spirit. My point is, it is very easy to take that counsel in the D & C, as so many are apt to do, as a requirement from the Lord that we first exhaust secular means of knowledge before seeking his guidance in a revelation. So, if it is that simple, how was Oliver to do that in this case (and apparently what am I missing, given he and I apparently have so much in common). Remember, at the time there were no known experts who could translate the characters written in reformed egyptian. Charles Anthon is claimed to have certified Joseph’s translation according to Martin Harris, though we have no record of what exactly Anthon certified, ie, what passage of scripture. Anthon denies this. If that section of scripture is to have any logical meaning, then it is implying some level of concentration, spiritual meditation, etc, is necessary in order to recieve the revelation. This is still all very spiritual and revelatory. The notions of employing secular study first, make the Oliver Cowdrey translation story absurd.

Given the above, it does not bode well for the Church when they defer to secular means of “detecting” worthiness, when a tauted strength/ability/Priesthood Key, granted to Bishops is the “power of discernment”.

As far as other sins, ie, pornography, fornication, beer and cigarettes, if they want to make annotations for a few years (to keep former addicts from being places in responsible positions in the midst of a relapse), I’m fine with that. However, if there is no signs of repeat offenses, all notations should be expunged.

As someone who “has a record,” I’m not certainly bothered if I could never be a bishop. I thing that whatever struggles I have in this life I have for a reason and if it disqualifies me to be a bishop, well then the principle of stewardship evens us out. To whom it is given the greater blessings requires greater responsibility, so I don’t think heaven will punish me for this in the end. However, I would like see what my notation says. I want to see what the bishop reads, because I would certainly be upset if it read former fornicator, DO NOT PLACE IN POSITIONS WITH YOUTH, or something like that.

#3 – The issue with the forsaken comment is that none of us have forsaken until we die or beyond. Forsaking it seems is a matter of the heart, but that is very difficult to judge.

Joseph Smith might be another example of someone with a shady past that was led to do good things.

I know that the matter with children is an easy one to latch onto, but no one has mentioned the divorced situation or that an adultery may have repented but not be allowed to serve in some positions. When I was called to be a Bishop, the first question I was asked was, have you ever been involved in a disciplinary council. I assume they had checked but he had to make sure that they had not missed anything. This I think was to see if there was anything that would be a problem for me serving.

In addition, is there a consensus that abusing children is information rightly kept while other sins are unnecessary?

Adam F – I amnot sure i agree, because using the same logic putting a ‘recovering’ sex addict in a situation where they will be emotionally intimate with lots of people (sometimes dependent people) is like putting a paedophile in nursery.

It appears to me, Cowboy, that you’ve fallen into the same misunderstanding as Oliver Cowdery who was told that “you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.” In other words, even then you’re entitled to revelation you’re still supposed to study things out and learn what you can before you ask the Lord. It appears that you’re being critical of church leadership when, in fact, their “due diligence” on these matters is exactly what the Lord has asked them to do.

Rafiki taught the limits of this principle when he smacked Simba in the head with his stick, and then pointed out that this was in the past and, according to Simba’s philosophy that the past didn’t matter, wasn’t important. Simba learned the lesson in time to block getting whacked in the head again.

Repentance is near impossible to see from the outside in a reliable fashion. Someone can show all the outward signs of penitence just by putting on a really convincing show, with no real change having taken place. John C. Bennett might be a very good example of this from Church History. Or he might be a good example of revocable repentance — I’m very sorry right now, but, in a week or two, I can fall back into my pride and decide that I really wasn’t all that wrong before. The thing that denies the power of the atonement is not in remembering what someone has done in the past — it is in failing to use the atonement to make deep changes and to stay on that path.

However, this policy approach has its problems — it only identifies those who have been caught, and creates a false sense of security that belies the existence of those who have not yet been caught, and those who never will. Everybody who commits a given sin has a first time, and that first time may well happen after they are put into a position of trust.

Build an institution out of fallible mortals, and you get a fallible mortal institution, even if it is directed by men inspired by God. It will need checks and balances that will not be required when it is replaced by an infallible immortal institution.

We can forgive others seven times seventy…but I can’t forget what dangers you might pose to my family if the risks are high enough.

Hopefully we don’t get preoccupied with it, but you have to be practical or you are just being stupid.