Comments on: Do We Let the Church Get in the Way of the Gospel? http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/ A weekly podcast exploring Mormon culture and current events. Thu, 24 May 2012 04:10:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: corajuddlover http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-157462 corajuddlover Wed, 04 May 2011 09:37:00 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-157462 You are a sweety pie. You are a sweety pie.

]]> By: Chino Blanco http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-157328 Chino Blanco Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:41:00 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-157328 For someone like myself who's getting on in years, if I were to volunteer for an LDS service mission, what sort of things might I expect to find myself doing? For someone like myself who’s getting on in years, if I were to volunteer for an LDS service mission, what sort of things might I expect to find myself doing?

]]> By: Anonymous http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-157327 Anonymous Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:16:00 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-157327 Actually, isn't it more like a pyramid? The broad base of obedient, tithe-paying members support a very small section of powerful men who control the money, the dictates, the politics and the branding strategies. If the peel is rotten, I always reject the fruit. Actually, isn’t it more like a pyramid? The broad base of obedient, tithe-paying members support a very small section of powerful men who control the money, the dictates, the politics and the branding strategies. If the peel is rotten, I always reject the fruit.

]]> By: Allen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-101415 Allen Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:38:39 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-101415 About 15 years ago, I wrote an essay titled <a href="http://mormonsite.org/converted.html" rel="nofollow">"Converted to Christ or to the Church?"</a> in which I pointed out that the church as an organization is just a stepping stone to Christ. We must become converted to Christ not to the church. If we are converted to Christ, then the church becomes the Kingdom of God on the earth, not just an organization. About 15 years ago, I wrote an essay titled “Converted to Christ or to the Church?” in which I pointed out that the church as an organization is just a stepping stone to Christ. We must become converted to Christ not to the church. If we are converted to Christ, then the church becomes the Kingdom of God on the earth, not just an organization.

]]> By: Jenkins http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99443 Jenkins Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:37:29 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99443 Jen, I understand what you were trying to say now, thanks for the clarification! I think we do agree more than not. Jen, I understand what you were trying to say now, thanks for the clarification! I think we do agree more than not.

]]> By: Jeff Spector http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99275 Jeff Spector Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:27:12 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99275 It's a choice, really. You can focus on the fruit or focus on the peel. In the analogy, each has its purpose. The fruit is the norishment, the peel is there for protection. Great post, Andrew. It’s a choice, really. You can focus on the fruit or focus on the peel. In the analogy, each has its purpose. The fruit is the norishment, the peel is there for protection.

Great post, Andrew.

]]> By: sxark http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99269 sxark Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:44:36 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99269 CON: Your in depth analysis of #37 and #21, please. CON:

Your in depth analysis of #37 and #21, please.

]]> By: CON http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99260 CON Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:19:14 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99260 Sometimes you here people say the church is like Noahs ark if it wasn't for the storm on the outside you couldn't stand the smell on the inside. I think most of of us know that there's marked difference between a mormom and a Latterday Saint. And many don't see the difference between the too, because more there's more social payoff from being active the church than being active in the gospel. Sometimes you here people say the church is like Noahs ark if it wasn’t for the storm on the outside you couldn’t stand the smell on the inside. I think most of of us know that there’s marked difference between a mormom and a Latterday Saint. And many don’t see the difference between the too, because more there’s more social payoff from being active the church than being active in the gospel.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99244 Jen Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:16:39 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99244 Ray- "I think we lose sight of our own myopia far too often." I agree. I think this is where our relationship with the Lord can really help us with our view of things. He can show us things and give us understanding in ways that no other can. So, at times where I hear things at church that I struggle with, or deal with challenging people (or just boring lessons), I remember the relationship I have with Him and that He is willing to open my mind, to help me become more compassionate, and to teach me how to love in ways that I can't on my own. This makes dealing with all the rest worth it to me. Ray-

“I think we lose sight of our own myopia far too often.”

I agree. I think this is where our relationship with the Lord can really help us with our view of things. He can show us things and give us understanding in ways that no other can. So, at times where I hear things at church that I struggle with, or deal with challenging people (or just boring lessons), I remember the relationship I have with Him and that He is willing to open my mind, to help me become more compassionate, and to teach me how to love in ways that I can’t on my own. This makes dealing with all the rest worth it to me.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99242 Jen Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:01:36 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99242 Ray- "Do we let our own issues get in the way of the point of the post?" Absolutely! Just think how dull life would be and especially here at MM if none of us had issues! :) Ray-

“Do we let our own issues get in the way of the point of the post?”

Absolutely! Just think how dull life would be and especially here at MM if none of us had issues! :)

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99241 Jen Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:59:34 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99241 Jenkins- I think you misunderstood what I meant, because I feel that we knew many things about coming to earth before we came here too. My point in that comment was that I think we knew as much as we could there, but we couldn't understand the extent of this experience because our minds were not veiled there and that changes things here. In other words, I don't think we realized how truly challenging it could be here not remembering the life before. We do agree much more than you realize on this subject, I think you just didn't fully understand my comment. Jenkins-

I think you misunderstood what I meant, because I feel that we knew many things about coming to earth before we came here too. My point in that comment was that I think we knew as much as we could there, but we couldn’t understand the extent of this experience because our minds were not veiled there and that changes things here. In other words, I don’t think we realized how truly challenging it could be here not remembering the life before. We do agree much more than you realize on this subject, I think you just didn’t fully understand my comment.

]]> By: Ray http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99240 Ray Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:57:13 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99240 I think we have a really myopic view of eternity, even with all that has been added through the Restoration. I think we lose sight of our own myopia far too often. I think we have a really myopic view of eternity, even with all that has been added through the Restoration. I think we lose sight of our own myopia far too often.

]]> By: Jenkins http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99227 Jenkins Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:56:59 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99227 Jen, you said " I don’t necessarily believe we knew exactly what we were getting into in the sense that we didn’t realize how hard it would be at times. " I disagree with this idea, if we have agency, why wouldn't that agency extend before birth? I believe we knew our parents very well before coming and knew exactly what strengths and weaknesses we would inherit/learn from them. We put ourselves in the situations in which we felt we could most grow and progress. I think we knew the challenges we would face and the contributions we would make to humanity around us. Some have excelled and overcome the challenges they put themselves in, others have failed. I also think we will be as much a judge of that as God will. Without that agency, we could always blame God for the situation we grew up in and not simply take responsibility for our own decisions and the life we led. Jen, you said ” I don’t necessarily believe we knew exactly what we were getting into in the sense that we didn’t realize how hard it would be at times. ”

I disagree with this idea, if we have agency, why wouldn’t that agency extend before birth? I believe we knew our parents very well before coming and knew exactly what strengths and weaknesses we would inherit/learn from them. We put ourselves in the situations in which we felt we could most grow and progress. I think we knew the challenges we would face and the contributions we would make to humanity around us. Some have excelled and overcome the challenges they put themselves in, others have failed. I also think we will be as much a judge of that as God will.

Without that agency, we could always blame God for the situation we grew up in and not simply take responsibility for our own decisions and the life we led.

]]> By: sxark http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99185 sxark Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:03:34 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99185 shannonj: Sorry, I come from the viewpoint that the Gospel and Church are more one and the same. With the exception that the Church is tangible and is subject to mistakes in application etc. The Gospel is intangible and is subject to misinterpetation etc. What is it about the Church, specifically, that concerns you? shannonj:

Sorry, I come from the viewpoint that the Gospel and Church are more one and the same. With the exception that the Church is tangible and is subject to mistakes in application etc. The Gospel is intangible and is subject to misinterpetation etc.

What is it about the Church, specifically, that concerns you?

]]> By: shannonj http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99183 shannonj Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:22:18 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99183 I believe with all my heart that the gospel is true but I have a hard time believing that the church is 100% true. However this is really hard for people (my family) to understand because to many members of the church the gospel and the church are the same. I believe with all my heart that the gospel is true but I have a hard time believing that the church is 100% true. However this is really hard for people (my family) to understand because to many members of the church the gospel and the church are the same.

]]> By: sxark http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99176 sxark Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:18:34 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99176 Ray: Perhaps "our own issues" is, the point of the post - which may have flawed questions to begin with. Ray:

Perhaps “our own issues” is, the point of the post – which may have flawed questions to begin with.

]]> By: Ray http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99175 Ray Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:14:49 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99175 Do we let our own issues get in the way of the point of the post? :) I smile when I type that, but it is a very similar question at the most fundamental level. Do we let our own issues get in the way of the point of the post? :)

I smile when I type that, but it is a very similar question at the most fundamental level.

]]> By: Things that don’t bother me about the Mormon church « Irresistible (Dis)Grace http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99158 Things that don’t bother me about the Mormon church « Irresistible (Dis)Grace Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:06:14 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99158 [...] I’ve made things simpler for myself, and have tried moving toward things that counter the destroying effects. And I wonder if this has been my way of separating the peel from the juicy orange? [...] [...] I’ve made things simpler for myself, and have tried moving toward things that counter the destroying effects. And I wonder if this has been my way of separating the peel from the juicy orange? [...]

]]> By: Jared http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99143 Jared Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:59:52 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99143 #64 sxark-- You're right. Thanks for bringing that point up. #64 sxark–

You’re right. Thanks for bringing that point up.

]]> By: Jared http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99138 Jared Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:45:58 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99138 #63 Jen-- Hi Jen-- I agree, I don't know how we could have known "exactly". #63 Jen–

Hi Jen–

I agree, I don’t know how we could have known “exactly”.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99136 Jen Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:34:51 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99136 sxark- Actually, I did see your comment but got sidetracked. I think the Lord has made it quite clear what He expects from us as members of the church. It is a great responsibility, yet it is also a great blessing to be able to have the gospel and to share it with those who desire it in their lives. sxark-

Actually, I did see your comment but got sidetracked. I think the Lord has made it quite clear what He expects from us as members of the church. It is a great responsibility, yet it is also a great blessing to be able to have the gospel and to share it with those who desire it in their lives.

]]> By: sxark http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99131 sxark Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:15:56 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99131 I'm surprised that no one has caught on that most members of the LDS Church are members of the tribe of Ephraim [see#37} and the impact this has on most of your concerns and the goals of the Church itself. I suspect that if another brought up the tribe of Ephraim, you may be discussing it now. I’m surprised that no one has caught on that most members of the LDS Church are members of the tribe of Ephraim [see#37} and the impact this has on most of your concerns and the goals of the Church itself.
I suspect that if another brought up the tribe of Ephraim, you may be discussing it now.

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99118 Jen Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:38:18 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99118 SW Clark- "But Jen, I do think a further look at the interplay between the “noble and great ones” and “weak things” arguments would be interesting." I agree. Maybe that is why it says the weak things "of the world"...... Jared- BTW, excellent points. I think it is true that we all had a choice about coming here, but I don't necessarily believe we knew exactly what we were getting into in the sense that we didn't realize how hard it would be at times. I think even the Savior didn't realize just how hard it would be. SW Clark-

“But Jen, I do think a further look at the interplay between the “noble and great ones” and “weak things” arguments would be interesting.”

I agree. Maybe that is why it says the weak things “of the world”……

Jared-

BTW, excellent points. I think it is true that we all had a choice about coming here, but I don’t necessarily believe we knew exactly what we were getting into in the sense that we didn’t realize how hard it would be at times. I think even the Savior didn’t realize just how hard it would be.

]]> By: Jared http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99117 Jared Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:37:31 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99117 #61 Jen-- Some days "gory" is just the right word. LOL :D #61 Jen–

Some days “gory” is just the right word. LOL :D

]]> By: Jen http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/25/do-we-let-the-church-get-in-the-way-of-the-gospel/#comment-99115 Jen Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:30:59 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6910#comment-99115 Jared- "LDS doctrine of the degrees of gory, is a glorious doctrine" I haven't heard of the degrees of "gory".....could you expound? :D Jared-

“LDS doctrine of the degrees of gory, is a glorious doctrine”

I haven’t heard of the degrees of “gory”…..could you expound? :D

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