Line upon Line – precept on precept. When the time is correct, or when your faith has become great enough, things will be revealed. I believe God does indeed work through scientific means, but I also believe that science is always evolving as we know it as humans, therefore there could very well be more science we have not yet discovered that fills in the gap here. But regardless of the outcome… it does not affect my day to day life and choices whether my genetic ancestors were “Ardi” or Adam and Eve. Too much time is often wasted on trying to figure all of these things out precisely given only what is currently known. Remember that at one point humanity was CONVINCED that the Earth was flat and the center of the galaxy. Both of which are obviously now proven wrong. Let us not be so quick to think we know everything.

As more evidence emerges, some hypotheses are confirmed and others can be rejected. I am afraid that the Adam and Eve account is inconsistent with the available evidence. That is not a big problem since the most valuable aspects of the creation narrative cannot be captured by literalism anyways.

It is fascinating to see how evolutionary biologists are moving away from war and conflict as the foundation of reason and civilization and are increasingly focusing on motherhood and cooperation instead.

;-P

I didn’t realize there might be any scientific evidence of that or pointing toward that. But I must say it makes me feel much more relaxed. The story of Adam and Eve, if taken literally, disturbs me. I mean, you have Adam and Even and two sons. Then what?

I firmly believe that evolution is an atheistic approach to the origins of life. I firmly believe that people like Richard Dawkins are either tremendously misled or are advocates of the devil, Satans foot-soldiers. There is nothing, in my opinion, that validates man originating from a lower species of animals other than an artists conceptual drawing. Evolution, the mechanism of atheism, will be seen in the future to be the greatest hoax of modern times. Coming in a strong second will be the hoax of the age of the earth being billions of years old.

I’ll put that in my list of “how to avoid leadership callings” with growing my hair long and starting each doctrinal conversation with “if I were the Prophet”.

I am having great fun this semester teaching a university course on human evolution. It is an Honors Program course, and the intelligence of the (non-LDS) students overwhelms me. “Ardi” has been big news in our discussions. We have also concerned ourselves with the evolutionist Richard Dawkins and his promotion of atheism, in which he argues that religion is an abuse to children.

All in all, I believe that evolutionary science is neutral to religion. I do NOT know how Adam & Eve fit in, but I firmly believe that the story of the fall (whether taken literally or figuratively) is essential to our LDS theology.

To me, there is no problem studying evolutionary science on weekdays, and then attending Church on Sundays. I find that I need to do both. Besides, the study of evolution is just my way of doing genealogy.

http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/10/monkey-man/151/#comment-6140

What type of evidence are you asking for, Martin? The following comes from R. Gary’s blog, “No Death Before the Fall.”

The Church’s basic doctrine manual, Gospel Principles, reaffirms that Adam’s fall brought mortality and death into the world. The 2009 edition of Gospel Principles teaches:

“Jesus Christ created this world and everything in it” (p.23). “When Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden,… there was no death” (p.28). “Adam and Eve were married by God before there was any death in the world” (p.219). “Their part in our Father’s plan was to bring mortality into the world” (p.27).

Originally written in 1978 for investigators and new members, the 2009 edition will be used for Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society second and third Sunday instruction during 2010 and 2011. The manual is also an approved resource for Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society first Sunday lessons.

Interesting blog. You may want to peruse it for more “evidence.”

I read a book entitled “Earth in the Beginning” It was written by Skousen’s son. It has allot of interesting scriptural, scientific and some speculative information. Anyway, the author talks about how the earth was created over millions of years using different kinds of life over different periods of time in order to create the earth for man. For example. it discusses how the coal beds and oil reserves were created in an organized way. One point I want to make is the fairly scientific and scripturally substantiated idea that after the earth was prepared for man, it was sanctified. All life was wiped out prior to Adam and Eve being introduced to it. So you see, there could be death before the Garden of Eden although it was before the creation was completed.

It also notes that the book of Moses amd Genesis provides the spiritual creation while the book of Abraham provides the physical creation. The temple I think is more symbolic and may contain both. The author provides quotes from a number of general authorities to back up these claims.

Of course, evidence to contrary of my view is that Adam named all the beasts (could that be just those in the garden?) and was made lord of the whole earth (which, while in the Garden, he’d never see).

What’s the evidence (besides McConkie’s statement) that there was no death of anything before the fall?

Count me among the legions of Church members who are elated that the General Authorities have moved beyond these sorts of questions that, to me at least, seem so irrelevant to how we each choose to live our daily lives, and are further glad that GA’s largely focus on trying to help us to develop good habits of spiritual health and become Christlike persons.

Given how often McConkie was wrong, I have no problem concluding he may not be right on this point.

“Who is Michael? He is a spirit son of the great Elohim. Under Christ he led the armies of righteousness when there was war in heaven. Our revelations say that he “was the son of God” (Moses 6:22), that he was “the first flesh [the first mortal flesh] upon earth, the first man also” (Moses 3:7), and that he was “the first man of all men” (Moses 1:34). He is Adam our father; he is the presiding high priest over all the earth. Under Christ, who is “the Holy One,” he holds “the keys of salvation” (D&C 78:16). He is the only one by whom the fall came. And anything you may have heard to the contrary, from whatever source, is false.”

McConkie further says: “There was, we repeat, no death in the world until after Adam fell. And there was, we repeat, no procreation until after the fall. And there was, we repeat, no mortality until after the fall.” If we accept this statement from a fairly recent Apostle, it would make it pretty hard for any of our above speculations to have occurred. And McConkie plainly did not see Adam as a symbolic character.

Reading BRM’s words can be quite disconcerting. He tells us that if we do not believe in the Fall, it is not possible to believe in the Atonement. And he insists that if we do not gain a true understanding of these things we will not be in a position to work out our salvation, and “we will never make the spiritual progress that will prepare us to enter the Eternal Presence.”

Yikes.