Comments on: Separating the Wheat from the Tares http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/ A weekly podcast exploring Mormon culture and current events. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Suzanne Moore http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-157396 Suzanne Moore Fri, 22 Apr 2011 19:45:00 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-157396 Yes! Yes!

]]> By: Jeff Spector http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128185 Jeff Spector Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:22:41 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128185 Doug, Good point. Doug, Good point.

]]> By: Doug G. http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128179 Doug G. Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:14:25 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128179 Ha Jeff, if only there had actually been a Noah to help make your point… :) Ha Jeff, if only there had actually been a Noah to help make your point… :)

]]> By: Jeff Spector http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128162 Jeff Spector Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:24:22 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128162 Doug G. "Mormonism is much too small of a religion to assume it is sprinkling the seeds and nurturing the “wheat” waiting for the final harvest before God comes and burns the “tares”. " I suppose that is what Noah thought in the beginning. Doug G.
“Mormonism is much too small of a religion to assume it is sprinkling the seeds and nurturing the “wheat” waiting for the final harvest before God comes and burns the “tares”. ”

I suppose that is what Noah thought in the beginning.

]]> By: Doug G. http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128121 Doug G. Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:14:01 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128121 You know, I just have to giggle at this thread just a little bit. To the billions of Christians all over the world, we as in Mormons and groups like Jehovah Witnesses, Scientologists, and Seventh Day Adventists are the proverbial “tares” in the great harvest. To them, the most believing to the least of those fringe religions are going to be eventually removed from the crop. Mormonism is much too small of a religion to assume it is sprinkling the seeds and nurturing the “wheat” waiting for the final harvest before God comes and burns the “tares”. Therefore, it would seem absurd to suppose that the wheat and tares parable applies to how believing certain Mormons are as compared to their non-believing brothers in the field of world religions. (Dr. Seuss and the Sneetches come to mind…) As for judging people based on their works, I like this saying as I think it’s very true. “There is SO much bad in the best of us and SO much good in the worst of us, how would you dare judge who is righteous and who is evil?” You know, I just have to giggle at this thread just a little bit. To the billions of Christians all over the world, we as in Mormons and groups like Jehovah Witnesses, Scientologists, and Seventh Day Adventists are the proverbial “tares” in the great harvest. To them, the most believing to the least of those fringe religions are going to be eventually removed from the crop.

Mormonism is much too small of a religion to assume it is sprinkling the seeds and nurturing the “wheat” waiting for the final harvest before God comes and burns the “tares”. Therefore, it would seem absurd to suppose that the wheat and tares parable applies to how believing certain Mormons are as compared to their non-believing brothers in the field of world religions. (Dr. Seuss and the Sneetches come to mind…)

As for judging people based on their works, I like this saying as I think it’s very true. “There is SO much bad in the best of us and SO much good in the worst of us, how would you dare judge who is righteous and who is evil?”

]]> By: rob osborn http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128119 rob osborn Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:55:33 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128119 The parable of the wheat and the tares is very easily understood. The Wheat are the "sons of God" while the Tares are the "sons of the devil". What is interesting about the parable is that it is not speaking of just the church, it is speaking of the entire earth and every single inhabitant. The timing of the separating of the wheat and the tares is important. It begins happening in our day but then continues throughout the millennium. What must be understood about the parable is that the "garners" spoken of in the parable is the place where the "saved" (the wheat; sons of God) have their names recorded. This represents the "temples" that dot the world- they are the garners. Temple work (the separation) will continue until the end of the millennium when all of the wheat will have been gathered safely into the garner. Then the fire will consume the wicked into the second death consuming the tares. The parable of the wheat and the tares is very easily understood. The Wheat are the “sons of God” while the Tares are the “sons of the devil”. What is interesting about the parable is that it is not speaking of just the church, it is speaking of the entire earth and every single inhabitant. The timing of the separating of the wheat and the tares is important. It begins happening in our day but then continues throughout the millennium. What must be understood about the parable is that the “garners” spoken of in the parable is the place where the “saved” (the wheat; sons of God) have their names recorded. This represents the “temples” that dot the world- they are the garners. Temple work (the separation) will continue until the end of the millennium when all of the wheat will have been gathered safely into the garner. Then the fire will consume the wicked into the second death consuming the tares.

]]> By: Andrew S http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128096 Andrew S Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:01:55 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128096 re 22: Jeff, Actually, if we are all hypocrites, that's even better for my point. It points out the delicate situation that the field is in (and why the householder cautions the servants not to try to uproot the tares at risk of uprooting wheat as well.) re 22:

Jeff, Actually, if we are all hypocrites, that’s even better for my point. It points out the delicate situation that the field is in (and why the householder cautions the servants not to try to uproot the tares at risk of uprooting wheat as well.)

]]> By: Jeff Spector http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128080 Jeff Spector Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:25:59 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128080 #20, Mike S, I wonder if Hitler even got to a "tare?" I find the interpretations fascinating and very honest. Just who is a wheat and who is a tare is a good question. #18, Andrew S One point I would make is that in this world, no matter how good we try to be, we are in some ways hypocrites because of our imperfections. So I would argue against the "so-called active hypocrite because it would include all who consider themselves active. #20, Mike S, I wonder if Hitler even got to a “tare?”

I find the interpretations fascinating and very honest. Just who is a wheat and who is a tare is a good question.

#18, Andrew S One point I would make is that in this world, no matter how good we try to be, we are in some ways hypocrites because of our imperfections. So I would argue against the “so-called active hypocrite because it would include all who consider themselves active.

]]> By: Thomas http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128075 Thomas Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:40 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128075 #20: "How about the scared US soldier in Iraq who doesn’t want to drop that bomb or pull the trigger?" If he doesn't want to drop a bomb on somebody who's sending women out to suicide-bomb parades of pilgrims, that's not a function of too much wheat in his system. #20: “How about the scared US soldier in Iraq who doesn’t want to drop that bomb or pull the trigger?”

If he doesn’t want to drop a bomb on somebody who’s sending women out to suicide-bomb parades of pilgrims, that’s not a function of too much wheat in his system.

]]> By: Mike S http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128070 Mike S Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:03 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128070 I look at this parable from a much broader perspective than the 0.1% of the world's population who are active LDS. I look at it as the whole world. The evil tares are the dictators and the murderers and the pedophiles and such. They are people committing atrocities in Africa. They are people taking advantage of their fellowman. I could certainly see an army of angels wanting to come down and take out Hitler when he was on a rampage. But there is much good in the world. Good hearts existed in concentration camps. And God knew that the was an unavoidable result of the plan presented in the Great Council. Patience, He says. It will all someday be fine. And for those "wheat" who are crowded out or destroyed by a "tare", I'll take them back to my bosom as well. And there is also a bit of wheat in everyone. How about the scared soldier in Hitler's army whose family will be killed if he doesn't go along? How about the scared US soldier in Iraq who doesn't want to drop that bomb or pull the trigger? He is a loving God. He cares about so much more than the 0.05% of us who might have a temple recommend. I look at this parable from a much broader perspective than the 0.1% of the world’s population who are active LDS.

I look at it as the whole world. The evil tares are the dictators and the murderers and the pedophiles and such. They are people committing atrocities in Africa. They are people taking advantage of their fellowman. I could certainly see an army of angels wanting to come down and take out Hitler when he was on a rampage.

But there is much good in the world. Good hearts existed in concentration camps. And God knew that the was an unavoidable result of the plan presented in the Great Council. Patience, He says. It will all someday be fine. And for those “wheat” who are crowded out or destroyed by a “tare”, I’ll take them back to my bosom as well. And there is also a bit of wheat in everyone. How about the scared soldier in Hitler’s army whose family will be killed if he doesn’t go along? How about the scared US soldier in Iraq who doesn’t want to drop that bomb or pull the trigger?

He is a loving God. He cares about so much more than the 0.05% of us who might have a temple recommend.

]]> By: mh http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128060 mh Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:50:08 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128060 andrew, your explanation of tares reminds me of nephi talking about the wicked and their stiffneckedness (also those in the great and spacious building.) the humble keep their heads down. andrew, your explanation of tares reminds me of nephi talking about the wicked and their stiffneckedness (also those in the great and spacious building.) the humble keep their heads down.

]]> By: Andrew S http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128050 Andrew S Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:34:12 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128050 I had a different interpretation of the wheat/tare distinction than most. The tares represent hypocrites, not necessarily those who leave or who are inactive. The issue is that the wheat and tares appear similar to each other, until a crucial point when the ears appear: true wheat will have ears that droop downward due to the weight, while darnel/false wheat will have ears that stand up straight (and then you can tell the difference). There are a few other differences, but that seemed to stick out to me. So, I infer from the similarity between the wheat and tares until maturity that we should seek to preserve such similarity in any analogy. Active vs. inactive doesn't seem to be all that similar. However, active vs. hypocritically active does seem to fit. The question then becomes: who is active and who is hypocritically active? I could see people argue two ways. Staunch orthodox TBMs might say that NOMs who attend for family, culture, etc., are being tares. On the other hand, maybe orthodoxy to rigid precepts is missing the mark in the first place, so it is the spirit of community that is more important? (And doesn't this mesh with Jesus's message of rebuke for those who were so rigid to the letter of the law?) I had a different interpretation of the wheat/tare distinction than most. The tares represent hypocrites, not necessarily those who leave or who are inactive.

The issue is that the wheat and tares appear similar to each other, until a crucial point when the ears appear: true wheat will have ears that droop downward due to the weight, while darnel/false wheat will have ears that stand up straight (and then you can tell the difference). There are a few other differences, but that seemed to stick out to me.

So, I infer from the similarity between the wheat and tares until maturity that we should seek to preserve such similarity in any analogy. Active vs. inactive doesn’t seem to be all that similar. However, active vs. hypocritically active does seem to fit.

The question then becomes: who is active and who is hypocritically active? I could see people argue two ways. Staunch orthodox TBMs might say that NOMs who attend for family, culture, etc., are being tares. On the other hand, maybe orthodoxy to rigid precepts is missing the mark in the first place, so it is the spirit of community that is more important? (And doesn’t this mesh with Jesus’s message of rebuke for those who were so rigid to the letter of the law?)

]]> By: FireTag http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128041 FireTag Fri, 05 Feb 2010 05:26:42 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128041 Interesting comments. I always thought that the parable was talking about the wheat field as the whole world, and that the parable was a warning about the consequences of using the powers of good to crush evil prematurely. (Sort of a Lucifer plan-lite. Interesting comments. I always thought that the parable was talking about the wheat field as the whole world, and that the parable was a warning about the consequences of using the powers of good to crush evil prematurely. (Sort of a Lucifer plan-lite.

]]> By: Stephen Marsh http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128034 Stephen Marsh Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:27:24 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128034 The other thing is that in parallel texts, it talks about how the angels cry night and day to be allowed to go down and reap, suggesting that God is a great deal more patient than those around him. The other thing is that in parallel texts, it talks about how the angels cry night and day to be allowed to go down and reap, suggesting that God is a great deal more patient than those around him.

]]> By: GBSmith http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128031 GBSmith Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:13:17 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128031 It's interesting that Jesus says to not pull the tares early as doing that could damage the wheat before it's mature. I guess that could mean that premature judgement by someone that shouldn't be judging might have more of an effect that would be intended. You don't want to put words in His mouth but it seems that parables are like that. It’s interesting that Jesus says to not pull the tares early as doing that could damage the wheat before it’s mature. I guess that could mean that premature judgement by someone that shouldn’t be judging might have more of an effect that would be intended. You don’t want to put words in His mouth but it seems that parables are like that.

]]> By: Jeff Spector http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128028 Jeff Spector Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:19:16 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128028 #11, We are not supposed to do the separating, but I wonder if some are self-selecting, so to speak. 12 &13: "but the other thing about the parable is that it says not to try to root up the tares early in the season because the jury’s still out – they look too much alike." I thought it was because the Lord didn't want to distribute the good fruit to get rid of the bad. That their day would some. I would agree that we cannot tell each other apart, but then again, it is not our job to. #11, We are not supposed to do the separating, but I wonder if some are self-selecting, so to speak.

12 &13:

“but the other thing about the parable is that it says not to try to root up the tares early in the season because the jury’s still out – they look too much alike.” I thought it was because the Lord didn’t want to distribute the good fruit to get rid of the bad. That their day would some. I would agree that we cannot tell each other apart, but then again, it is not our job to.

]]> By: Hawkgrrrl http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128022 Hawkgrrrl Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:25:58 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128022 Sorry to comment twice in a row, but the other thing about the parable is that it says not to try to root up the tares early in the season because the jury's still out - they look too much alike. But when the wheat is ripe and has "born fruit" it's easier to tell. By their fruits ye shall know them. Sorry to comment twice in a row, but the other thing about the parable is that it says not to try to root up the tares early in the season because the jury’s still out – they look too much alike. But when the wheat is ripe and has “born fruit” it’s easier to tell. By their fruits ye shall know them.

]]> By: Hawkgrrrl http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128020 Hawkgrrrl Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:24:21 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128020 I love this parable because what it says to me is that we humans are lousy at discerning the wheat from the tares, but "the Lord looketh on the heart." I would guess that in reality the wheat/tare percentage among the active and inactive and non-members is all pretty close. Active Mormons don't corner the market on good intentions. There are many Mormons who are whole wheat, and some that just have some caramel food coloring to make their refined flour white bread appear more wheaty. Likewise, it's easy to cast aspersions on those who've left the church or who never joined, but we know that it's not how the Lord sees people or how they really are. Those are really just judgments that reinforce our decision to be in the group. I love this parable because what it says to me is that we humans are lousy at discerning the wheat from the tares, but “the Lord looketh on the heart.” I would guess that in reality the wheat/tare percentage among the active and inactive and non-members is all pretty close. Active Mormons don’t corner the market on good intentions. There are many Mormons who are whole wheat, and some that just have some caramel food coloring to make their refined flour white bread appear more wheaty. Likewise, it’s easy to cast aspersions on those who’ve left the church or who never joined, but we know that it’s not how the Lord sees people or how they really are. Those are really just judgments that reinforce our decision to be in the group.

]]> By: GBSmith http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128019 GBSmith Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:22:32 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128019 RE #8 It's higher than 50% in Utah county but in south and central america closer to 25% or less. Average is likely 33% as mentioned. That's why Pres. Hinckley was so serious about retention. Ted Lyons' talk on Mormon Stories mentioned the need in Chile to reduce the number of stakes from about 120 to 80 because of so many inactives. There are all sorts of reasons from faithful people that got burned out to those that were never converted to just names from bogus baptisms. I always thought of the tares as those who had remained with the group but were not faithful and at judgement would be separated out. For those who've stopped participating, they've taken care of the task themselves. RE #8 It’s higher than 50% in Utah county but in south and central america closer to 25% or less. Average is likely 33% as mentioned. That’s why Pres. Hinckley was so serious about retention. Ted Lyons’ talk on Mormon Stories mentioned the need in Chile to reduce the number of stakes from about 120 to 80 because of so many inactives. There are all sorts of reasons from faithful people that got burned out to those that were never converted to just names from bogus baptisms.

I always thought of the tares as those who had remained with the group but were not faithful and at judgement would be separated out. For those who’ve stopped participating, they’ve taken care of the task themselves.

]]> By: Jon http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128018 Jon Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:04:48 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128018 Another question might be: assuming that 2/3rd's number is correct, which portion is the wheat and which is the tare? The 1/3rd or the 2/3rd's? :) Another question might be: assuming that 2/3rd’s number is correct, which portion is the wheat and which is the tare? The 1/3rd or the 2/3rd’s? :)

]]> By: Velska http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128017 Velska Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:50:39 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128017 I am quite certain, that <em>somewhere</em> in there, the wheat and the tares are being shifted; or perhaps they are starting to look a lot like themselves. Church of the Firstborn != LDS Church -- even the TR holders. There's wheat outside and tares inside. PS. For those w/o computer literacy: != is a program code way of saying "is not equal to" I am quite certain, that somewhere in there, the wheat and the tares are being shifted; or perhaps they are starting to look a lot like themselves.

Church of the Firstborn != LDS Church — even the TR holders. There’s wheat outside and tares inside.

PS. For those w/o computer literacy: != is a program code way of saying “is not equal to”

]]> By: mh http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128016 mh Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:38:54 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128016 i'm with alice. I thought activity rates were closer to 50%. i’m with alice. I thought activity rates were closer to 50%.

]]> By: Jared http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128010 Jared Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:24:44 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128010 I assume there are several levels to the process of separating the wheat from the tares---a process, as well as event(s). I'm just grateful for the Lord's mercy. I was lost and He found me, and for over forty years He has gently lead(Matt 8:21-22)me to greater and greater understanding and experience with things of the Spirit. I think He will accept of our repentance until we utterly, and completely reject Him (Mosiah 16:12). Based on my experience, each of us (the wheat) leaves a lot on the table. When it is all said and done, I expect we will look back and realize how much we could have had of the Holy Ghost, gifts of the Spirit--compared to what we received. I assume there are several levels to the process of separating the wheat from the tares—a process, as well as event(s).

I’m just grateful for the Lord’s mercy. I was lost and He found me, and for over forty years He has gently lead(Matt 8:21-22)me to greater and greater understanding and experience with things of the Spirit.

I think He will accept of our repentance until we utterly, and completely reject Him (Mosiah 16:12).

Based on my experience, each of us (the wheat) leaves a lot on the table. When it is all said and done, I expect we will look back and realize how much we could have had of the Holy Ghost, gifts of the Spirit–compared to what we received.

]]> By: SNeilsen http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128007 SNeilsen Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:59:17 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128007 It is real easy to separate the wheat from the tares in a modern processing facility and have nothing but pure wheat. The difficult part is keeping the wheat from leaving with the tares. Any mill that didn't concern itself with minimizing wheat loss would soon go out of business. It is real easy to separate the wheat from the tares in a modern processing facility and have nothing but pure wheat.
The difficult part is keeping the wheat from leaving with the tares. Any mill that didn’t concern itself with minimizing wheat loss would soon go out of business.

]]> By: Martin http://mormonmatters.org/2010/02/04/separating-the-wheat-from-the-tares/#comment-128006 Martin Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:53:51 +0000 http://mormonmatters.org/?p=9674#comment-128006 Rico, "there is a sense that the tares are forcibly removed because they will eventually do damage to the remaining wheat". I didn't get that -- I actually got the opposite, that removing the tares forcibly would damage the wheat. Whether you think the harvest is a process or an event may affect your thinking on this. In my mind, the forcible separation happens at the end, not to protect the wheat, but because at harvest, the tares simply have no value. Rico, “there is a sense that the tares are forcibly removed because they will eventually do damage to the remaining wheat”.

I didn’t get that — I actually got the opposite, that removing the tares forcibly would damage the wheat. Whether you think the harvest is a process or an event may affect your thinking on this. In my mind, the forcible separation happens at the end, not to protect the wheat, but because at harvest, the tares simply have no value.

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