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	<title>Mormon Matters &#187; reverence</title>
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	<itunes:subtitle>A weekly podcast exploring Mormon current events, pop culture, politics and spirituality</itunes:subtitle>
	<itunes:summary>A weekly podcast exploring Mormon current events, pop culture, politics and spirituality</itunes:summary>
	<itunes:keywords>mormon, lds</itunes:keywords>
	<itunes:category text="Religion &#38; Spirituality">
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		<item>
		<title>&#8216;I really think it would be best if you ended your remarks at this point?&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/09/24/i-really-think-it-would-be-best-if-you-ended-your-remarks-at-this-point/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/09/24/i-really-think-it-would-be-best-if-you-ended-your-remarks-at-this-point/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Aaron R. aka Rico</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=7318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John Remy posted an interesting blog/video where a man, speaking about his concern with the Church&#8217;s practice and policy during the Prop 8 debate, was asked by the Bishop to stop.  The man protested and was allowed to finish but the Microphone was turned off.  What would make you ask someone to sit down? I have never even seen this done.  Therefore I thought I would include a short poll to see if you good folks have:  [poll id="60"] I hope John won&#8217;t mind me including the video here for you all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZQ5TgFRac If you were a Bishop, what would it take for you to ask someone to sit down or change what they were saying?  Is there anything that would cause you to do that? Doctrinal Disagreement (if so what kind?) Attack of a Church Leader Personal Criticism of a Member Swearing Drunk or on Drugs For my part I disagree with someone after they had spoken if I felt that it might upset people.  For example, if someone declared Jesus to be a liar I might express my feelings to the contrary afterward.  I think personal criticism or swearing might be something which I might stop.  If they [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Remy posted an interesting <a href="http://www.mindonfire.com/2009/09/12/extinguishing-the-lights-along-the-shore-one-man-speaks-against-prop-8-in-an-lds-meeting/">blog</a>/video where a man, speaking about his concern with the Church&#8217;s practice and policy during the Prop 8 debate, was asked by the Bishop to stop.  The man protested and was allowed to finish but the Microphone was turned off.  What would make you ask someone to sit down?<span id="more-7318"></span></p>
<p>I have never even seen this done.  Therefore I thought I would include a short poll to see if you good folks have:</p>
<p style="text-align: left"> [poll id="60"]</p>
<p>I hope John won&#8217;t mind me including the video here for you all.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZQ5TgFRac">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZQ5TgFRac</a></p>
<p>If you were a Bishop, what would it take for you to ask someone to sit down or change what they were saying?  Is there anything that would cause you to do that?</p>
<ul>
<li>Doctrinal Disagreement (if so what kind?)</li>
<li>Attack of a Church Leader</li>
<li>Personal Criticism of a Member</li>
<li>Swearing</li>
<li>Drunk or on Drugs</li>
</ul>
<p>For my part I disagree with someone after they had spoken if I felt that it might upset people.  For example, if someone declared Jesus to be a liar I might express my feelings to the contrary afterward.  I think personal criticism or swearing might be something which I might stop.  If they were drunk I could accept it as long as they did not do any of the other two.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>164</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Is The Church Sacrificing Principle for Profit With Hunting Preserves?</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/09/24/is-the-church-sacrificing-principle-for-profit-with-hunting-preserves/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/09/24/is-the-church-sacrificing-principle-for-profit-with-hunting-preserves/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Faithful Dissident</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=7358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#8220;To what degree should the principle of &#8216;respect for life&#8221; be extended to bird and animal creations? What do the scriptures, Joseph Smith, and other early Church leaders teach about the grand design and purposes of God&#8217;s non-human creations? Does having &#8220;dominion&#8221; over the kingdom of creatures mean we are their predators and exploiters or does it suggest a &#8220;stewardship&#8221; relationship in which we become their caretakers in order to help them &#8220;fulfill the full measure of their creation?&#8221; If the scriptures teach, &#8220;woe be unto man that sheddeth blood or wasteth flesh and have no need,&#8221; and &#8220;the blood of every beast will I require at your hands,&#8221; what rationale could be used to explain Church-owned, revenue-generating enterprises such as Deseret Land and Livestock and the Westlake Hunting Preserve? Do these operations constitute sacrificing principle for profit?&#8221; - Sacrificing Principle for Profit: Church Wildlife Enterprises and Hunting Preserves, Sunstone Magazine I recently learned about the two Church-owned and sanctioned hunting preserves mentioned above and was stunned by what amounts to be the killing of animals for profit by the LDS Church. Perhaps unlike other Church business enterprises, however, is the fact that missionaries were sent to &#8220;serve God in a most unusual way,&#8221; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;To what degree should the principle of &#8216;respect for life&#8221; be extended to bird and animal creations? What do the scriptures, Joseph Smith, and other early Church leaders teach about the grand design and purposes of God&#8217;s non-human creations? Does having &#8220;dominion&#8221; over the kingdom of creatures mean we are their predators and exploiters or does it suggest a &#8220;stewardship&#8221; relationship in which we become their caretakers in order to help them &#8220;fulfill the full measure of their creation?&#8221; If the scriptures teach, &#8220;woe be unto man that sheddeth blood or wasteth flesh and have no need,&#8221; and &#8220;the blood of every beast will I require at your hands,&#8221; what rationale could be used to explain Church-owned, revenue-generating enterprises such as Deseret Land and Livestock and the Westlake Hunting Preserve? Do these operations constitute sacrificing principle for profit?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>- <a href="https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/store/7323.html">Sacrificing Principle for Profit: Church Wildlife Enterprises and Hunting Preserves</a>, Sunstone Magazine</p>
<p><span id="more-7358"></span></p>
<p>I recently learned about the two Church-owned and sanctioned hunting preserves mentioned above and was stunned by what amounts to be the killing of animals for profit by the LDS Church.</p>
<p>Perhaps unlike other Church business enterprises, however, is the fact that missionaries were sent to &#8220;serve God in a most unusual way,&#8221; according to <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/770568/Tending-the-flock.html">this</a> July, 2000 article on Deseret News about the LDS Church&#8217;s hunting preserves.</p>
<p>According to the information packet from Deseret Land and Livestock obtained by the Sunstone speaker on <a href="https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/audio/SL01223.mp3">this</a> podcast, a guided archery hunt to bag an elk can fetch $11,500 plus tax and license, as of the year 2001.  (A more detailed price list can be accessed at around the 28 minute mark of the podcast.) When asked in a letter by concerned members of the Church how the hunting preserves could be ethically justified, the Presiding Bishopric (who oversees the hunting preserves) offered no response or explanation.</p>
<p>Now, many Mormons own a gun and many go hunting.  Millions of Americans go hunting every year and it&#8217;s a big industry.  So what&#8217;s the problem with the Church getting in on the profits?  Well, when we consider LDS scripture and statements by General Authorities such as the following, it&#8217;s clear that we&#8217;re not &#8220;just another hunting enterprise:&#8221;</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;And surely, <em>blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood</em> of every beast will I require <em>at your hands.&#8221;</em>  (Genesis 9:11, JST)</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I never could see why a man should be imbued with a blood-thirsty desire to kill and destroy animal life. I have known men—and they still exist among us—who enjoy what is, to them, the &#8216;sport&#8217; of hunting birds and slaying them by the hundreds, and who will come in after a day&#8217;s sport boasting of how many harmless birds they have had the skill to slaughter &#8230; I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he needs them for food, and then he should not kill innocent little birds that are not intended for food for man. I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possesses animal life. It is wrong.&#8221; (President Joseph F. Smith, <em>Gospel Doctrine</em>, Vol. 1, pp. 371-372)</p>
<p>&#8220;Now, I would like to add some of my feelings concerning the unnecessary shedding of blood and destruction of life &#8230; And not less with reference to the killing of innocent birds is the wildlife of our country that live upon the vermin that are indeed enemies to the farmer and to mankind. It is not only wicked to destroy them, it is a shame, in my opinion. I think that this principle should extend not only to the bird life but to the life of all animals &#8230; because God gave it to them, and they were to be used only, as I understand, for food and to supply the needs of men.&#8221; (President Spencer W. Kimball, &#8220;Fundamental Principles to Ponder and Live,&#8221; <em>The Ensign</em>, November 1978, p. 45)</p>
<p>&#8220;Killing for sport is wrong&#8230;One day, to while away the slowly passing hours, I took my gun with the intention of indulging in a little amusement in hunting turkeys&#8230; From boyhood I had been particularly, and I may say strangely, attached to a gun. Hunting in the forests of Ohio was a pastime that to me possessed the most fascinating attractions. It never occurred to my mind that it was wrong-that indulging in &#8220;what was sport to me was death to them;&#8221; that in shooting turkeys, squirrels, etc., I was taking life that I could not give; therefore I indulged in the murderous sport without the least compunction of conscience.&#8221;  (<em>Teachings of Lorenzo Snow</em>, p.188-189)</p></blockquote>
<p>Something happened between the days that those statements were made and the present day where sport hunting for profit within the Church was suddenly considered to be a good idea &#8212; so much so that missionaries were initially sent to tend to the grounds.  How did we get from the days where the Church fostered such a high regard for animal life that <a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=31ce535cedb1c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">Joseph Smith prevented the unnecessary killing of rattlesnakes</a>; when the pioneers would <a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=0edba41f6cc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD">lay their hands upon their oxen to bless them</a>; when their animals were valued as they were the key to their survival, and hunting was done only because it was necessary to sustain their lives &#8212; to the days when they&#8217;re hunted down for recreation and profit?  What does that say about our culture and our religion? </p>
<p>Did I miss a change in LDS teaching concerning reverence for the Lord&#8217;s animal creations?  Or is the only change that we&#8217;ve put a price on their heads?</p>
<p>George Q. Cannon, counselor in the First Presidency under Brigham Young and editor of the <em>Juvenile Instructor</em>, probably wrote more concerning the humane treatment of animals than any member of the Church.  In 1868 he began writing editorials advocating kindness to animals and in 1897 he founded a Sunday School-sponsored &#8220;Humane Day,&#8221; which became an annual event.  Most members of the Church know nothing about it, but this program continued in the Church for the next twenty years.</p>
<p>It is perhaps a bit ironic that leaders of the Church &#8212; in the days of when members were more dependent on animals for their food and clothing &#8212; were so frequently vocal about the humane treatment of animals, emphasizing that we should never take their lives unless it is to save our own, whereas today &#8212; when we are much less dependent on animals for our survival, and are supposedly much more enlightened on the subject of animal intelligence, emotion, and sensitivity to pain &#8211; the leaders of the Church are mostly silent on the issue of animal welfare and see fit to send missionaries to tend to sport hunting grounds. </p>
<p> In the <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/770568/Tending-the-flock.html">Deseret News article</a>, referring to Elder Huff, who tended to Westlake, it says:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Instead of knocking on doors, he spends his time bush- whacking in the thick brush along the southwest shores of Utah Lake, looking for the perfect place to nurture his birds by planting numerous stands of corn, rye and other grains&#8230;.</p>
<p>Large holding tanks that are no longer used for farming now provide high-profile watering holes throughout the game preserve, attracting not only birds but rabbits, coyotes, deer and even antelope.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Interestingly enough, President Joseph F. Smith made a very specific statement referring directly to hunting elk, deer and antelope, among others:</p>
<blockquote>
<p align="left">&#8220;I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he needs them for food, and then he should not kill innocent little birds that are not intended for food for man. I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possesses animal life. It is wrong. I have been surprised at prominent men whom I have seen whose very souls seemed to be athirst for the shedding of animal blood. They go off hunting deer, antelope, elk, anything they can find, and what for? &#8220;Just the fun of it!&#8221; Not that they are hungry and need the flesh of their prey, but just because they love to shoot and to destroy life. I am a firm believer, with reference to these things, in the simple words of one of the poets:</p>
<blockquote>
<p align="left">&#8220;Take not way the life you cannot give,<br />
For all things have an equal right to live.&#8221;
</p>
<p align="left"><em>Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol.4, p.48</em></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>President Smith seems to predict with amazing accuracy what is going on at places like Westlake, where &#8221;prominent men,&#8221; (perhaps the &#8220;doctors, dentists and attorneys from Payson north to Ogden, including Park City,&#8221; that Elder Huff refers to in the Deseret News article) seem to be so &#8220;athirst for the shedding of animal blood&#8221; that they will literally spend tens of thousands of dollars to &#8220;go off hunting deer, antelope, elk, anything they can find, and what for?  Just the fun of it!&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, a very elite, lucrative kind of &#8220;fun&#8221; that had (as of 2001) a six-year waiting list.</p>
<p>Information about these hunting preserves is very sparse, but according to Jim Catano, who contacted the Church&#8217;s public affairs department and was &#8220;told by the director that he would answer my questions, a second-tier media handler was assigned to inform me weeks later that they would not answer any of the questions I&#8217;d submitted in preparation for this article.&#8221;  (The article he was referring to can be accessed <a href="http://www.vegsource.com/articles/catano_hunting.htm">here</a>.)  After deciding to drop into Westlake unannounced and being given a tour by manager Kevin Albrecht, he found out the following in 2001:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Our efforts in bringing our opposition to the attention of the Church hierarchy have already had an impact. Not only do missionaries no longer staff the facility but &#8220;canned hunts&#8221; in which birds that have been raised in captivity are released just before the hunters go in are no longer sponsored. Kevin said he had had several meetings with upper management as a result of our activism, and canned hunts were one of the first things to be changed.</p>
<p>He told me that in a meeting he recently attended of commercial hunting facility managers, people from other parts of the country were surprised how low the daily bag limit is (2 per day as opposed to &#8220;as many as you can shoot for a price&#8221;) and that the facility no longer plants hatched birds but relies only on wild reproduction. He informed me how strict rule enforcement is and that members must report birds they think they&#8217;ve wounded but can&#8217;t find as part of their daily limit. He&#8217;s fairly confident that members do this although I have my doubts that all do.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Since information about these preserves is limited, I decided to get in contact with Jim in order to ask him whether he had any new information since his update in 2001.  He said that he had contacted Farm Management Corporation (wholly owned by the LDS Church to run its farm properties) sometime prior to 2003, but they &#8220;refused to talk to me and give me any more information on the subject at a certain point.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, while there have been positive changes as the result of protest about the initial practice of canned hunting, Jim says that it &#8220;didn&#8217;t change (his) mind about the merits of the existence of this facility.&#8221;  The end result has remained unchanged: animals being hunted down for Church profit.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t about sustaining the lives of doctors and lawyers or meat going to waste.  Who eats coyote?  And $11,500 for a few elk steaks?  This is about the number of animals being purposely multiplied by creating the perfect conditions and attracting them to the preseve for the purpose of being killed &#8220;just for fun&#8221; &#8211; <strong><em>not</em></strong> because they need the flesh to live on, as President Smith stated above. </p>
<p>Ironically, The Humane Society of the United States  has a <a href="http://www.hsus.org/religion/profiles/church_of_jesus_christ_of.html">webpage </a>dedicated to praising the LDS Church for its teachings about animal life.  Do we deserve the praise?  Or have we given nothing but lip service to our supposed respect for God&#8217;s creations and their right to life?</p>
<p>Despite past teachings and statements by General Authorities on the subject of hunting and the taking of animal life, many of you have no personal problem with sport hunting.  Obviously, you have the legal right to hunt and I realize that I&#8217;m unlikely to change your personal views on the matter.  I ask you, however, whether you would be troubled by any of the following purely hypothetical situations:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>The Church preaches against alcohol consumption, but purchases a vineyard in California and profits from the sale of the grapes being harvested to produce wine.</li>
<li>The Church teaches that pornography is wrong, but has a stake in a popular fashion magazine featuring scantily-clothed women in sexual poses.</li>
<li>The Church opposes abortion but owns property in Florida that an abortion clinic rents.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>Would you be prepared to defend these hypothetical scenarios in the same way that you defend the Church&#8217;s hunting preserves?</p>
<p>Of all the good ways to make a buck, is this the best we can do?  Are we or are we not, as a Church, sacrificing principle for profit?</p>
<p>Gerald E. Jones stated the following in in an Ensign article from August, 1972 called <a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=31ce535cedb1c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">&#8220;The Gospel And Animals:&#8221;</a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The prophets have been consistent in reminding men of their duty to the animal world. As the Lord told Noah, “… the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.” (JST, Gen. 9:11.) It is our sacred stewardship to care for the earth and all the creatures on it.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The prophets have been consistent.  What about the Church?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll leave you with a quote from Joseph F. Smith from an editorial published in the <em>Juvenile Instructor</em> in April, 1927:</p>
<blockquote><p>“… The unnecessary destruction of life is a distinct spiritual loss to the human family. Men cannot worship the Creator and look with careless indifference upon his creations. The love of all life helps man to the enjoyment of a better life. It exalts the spiritual nature of those in need of divine favor.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>29</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Taking the Fun Out of Funerals</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/02/taking-the-fun-out-of-funerals/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/02/taking-the-fun-out-of-funerals/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=5191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What do you want your funeral to be like?  Do you care or do you figure you&#8217;ll be dead anyway?  How do you feel about burial vs. cremation?  Are you an organ donor? This is a topic that always excites some feeling, whether you are Mormon or not.  We all wonder about the legacy we will leave behind and what will be our life&#8217;s eulogy. Boyd K. Packer has spoken twice on the topic of funerals, once in 1988, and again in a BYU devotional in 1996.  He clearly has some strong feelings on this topic. Bishops should not yield the arrangement of meetings to members.  They should not yield the arrangement for funerals or missionary farewells to families.  It is not the proper order of things for members or families to expect to decide who will speak and for how long.  Suggestions are in order, of course, but the bishop should not turn the meeting over to them.  We are worried about the drift that is occuring in our meetings. I agree to some extent where missionary farewells are concerned, but funerals seem like a private family matter for grieving to me, not specifically a missionary moment. Funerals could [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;">What do you want your funeral to be like?  Do you care or do you figure you&#8217;ll be dead anyway?  How do you feel about burial vs. cremation?  Are you an organ donor?<span id="more-5191"></span></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">This is a topic that always excites some feeling, whether you are Mormon or not.  We all wonder about the legacy we will leave behind and what will be our life&#8217;s eulogy.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="alignright" src="http://happylists.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funeral-procession.jpeg" alt="http://happylists.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funeral-procession.jpeg" width="181" height="185" />Boyd K. Packer has spoken twice on the topic of funerals, once in <a href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=30f7d7630a27b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;hideNav=1">1988</a>, and again in a <a href="http://emp.byui.edu/huffr/The%20Unwritten%20Order%20of%20Things%20--%20Boyd%20K.%20Packer.htm">BYU devotional</a> in 1996.  He clearly has some strong feelings on this topic.</p>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<div>Bishops should not yield the arrangement of meetings to members.  They should not yield the arrangement for funerals or missionary farewells to families.  It is not the proper order of things for members or families to expect to decide who will speak and for how long.  Suggestions are in order, of course, but the bishop should not turn the meeting over to them.  We are worried about the drift that is occuring in our meetings.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">I agree to some extent where missionary farewells are concerned, but funerals seem like a private family matter for grieving to me, not specifically a missionary moment.</div>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<div>Funerals could and should be the most spiritually impressive.  They are becoming informal family reunions in front of ward members.  Often the Spirit is repulsed by humorous experiences or jokes when the time could be devoted to teaching the things of the Spirit, even the sacred things.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">I still hold the hope that HF has a great sense of humor.  It doesn&#8217;t take much observation of humanity to bolster that hope.</div>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;">
<div>When the family insists that several family members speak in a funeral, we hear about the deceased instead of the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the comforting promises revealed in the scriptures.  Now it&#8217;s all right to have a family member speak at a funeral, but if they do, their remarks should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">Personally, I feel that we honor the dead when we remember them personally, share the stories of their life and the joy they brought to us through knowing them.  The funeral is for the living survivors, not the dead, nor the church. </div>
<blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">I have told my Brethren in that day when my funeral is held, if any of them who speak talk about me, I will raise up and correct them.  The gospel is to be preached.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="text-align: left;">Actually, I would pay good money to see this.  Who&#8217;s with me?</div>
<blockquote style="text-align: left;"><p>I know of no meeting where the congregation is in a better state of readiness to receive revelation and inspiration from a speaker than they are at a funeral.  This privilege is being taken away from us because we don&#8217;t understand the order of things&#8211;the unwritten order of things&#8211;that relates to the administration of the Church and the reception of the Spirit.</p></blockquote>
<p style="text-align: left;">Really?  A funeral?  I rather think that non-members and inactives would be put off by the lack of respect to the deceased.  It seems a little insensitive.  Whereas those who are members already have come to honor their dead.  Isn&#8217;t family supposed to come first?</p>
<div style="text-align: left;"><strong>What do you think?</strong> Should funerals be 100% somber with no mention of the deceased as an individual, only as an example of the Plan of Salvation in action?  Is it best for grieving families to hold funerals in their homes or away from the church if they want to cherish and honor the specific memory of their loved ones individually?</div>
<div style="text-align: left;"><strong>What is your experience?</strong> Given the fact that these talks are 20 years old and 12 years old (and the second was only a BYU address), I am curious &#8211; it seems to be BKP&#8217;s opinion more than church policy based on its execution.  Are these instructions being carried out?  (I don&#8217;t attend enough funerals to know the current trends, but the last one I went to was mostly funny and touching stories about the deceased with maybe a church talk, but I&#8217;m pretty sure I tuned it out).</div>
<div style="text-align: left;"><strong>[poll id="8"]</strong></div>
<div style="text-align: left;"><strong></strong></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">For my funeral, I would like some personal anecdotes shared.  And if possible, at least at the viewing, an Elvis Costello soundtrack (or Meatloaf&#8217;s Bat Out of Hell if I specifically die in a car crash).  No jello or funeral potatoes unless you really really like that stuff (after all, I won&#8217;t have to eat it).  I am also not keen on the whole giving a church talk thing.  If there are a bunch of people giving church talks in Heaven, no thanks.  I would prefer to be sent into the ocean on a burning barge like the Vikings, but if that is impractical, make sure I look good, but keep expenses down.  But I&#8217;m not going to threaten anyone with &#8220;rising up&#8221; out of my casket if these orders are not followed.  When I die, I plan to stay reliably dead, at least for the duration of the funeral.</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">Discuss.</div>
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		<title>LDS Worship &#8211; Part III</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/17/lds-worship-part-iii/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/17/lds-worship-part-iii/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=4959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Stout is a Disciples of Christ minister.  This is the third and final installment of his insightful commentary on LDS Sacrament Meeting Worship.  To provide proper context for this final installment, we are including a couple of paragraphs from the end of the last installment. We want to thank David for his contributions here at Mormon Matters; it has been enlightening and well-considered. Now again I want to underscore the fact that I write as a non-Mormon, and I recognize the fact that there must be something about the sacrament meeting that does work and that the current missionary strategy has proven quite effective. Consequently, it could be very well argued that there is no point messing with success &#8211; and I would not object in the least if you, the reader, took that position. But I would humbly suggest that maybe the broader vision of David McKay, the insights and success of Gladys Knight and her gospel choir, and the early roots of the LDS Church itself might raise some heretofore unconsidered possibilities for reaching more people from different backgrounds. I would also suggest that these same possibilities for more effective mission might also bring the sacrament meeting [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>David Stout is a Disciples of Christ minister.  This is the third and final installment of his insightful commentary on LDS Sacrament Meeting Worship.  To provide proper context for this final installment, we are including a couple of paragraphs from the end of the last installment.<strong> We want to thank David for his contributions here at Mormon Matters; it has been enlightening and well-considered. </strong></em></p>
<p>Now again I want to underscore the fact that I write as a non-Mormon, and I recognize the fact that there must be something about the sacrament meeting that does work and that the current missionary strategy has proven quite effective. Consequently, it could be very well argued that there is no point messing with success &#8211; and I would not object in the least if you, the reader, took that position.</p>
<p>But I would humbly suggest that maybe the broader vision of David McKay, the insights and success of Gladys Knight and her gospel choir, and the early roots of the LDS Church itself might raise some heretofore unconsidered possibilities for reaching more people from different backgrounds. I would also suggest that these same possibilities for more effective mission might also bring the sacrament meeting and the principle of ongoing revelation into greater practical coherence. <span id="more-4959"></span></p>
<p>Lastly, incorporating some of these possibilities might help establish the local ward or branch as being every bit as responsible for spreading the good news as the missionaries. I think that, particularly in the U.S., congregational based evangelism could well be the way to greater success in finding converts. Participation in a church service at the invitation of a friend is a far more appealing introduction to any religion than two strangers knocking at one’s door.</p>
<p>From both reading and conversation, I think this fact is more and more recognized by the LDS. The missionaries do great work, but they have a far better chance of success with people who are already well disposed toward their message than with “cold” calls. Experiencing the presence of God in worship instead of just hearing about it could go a long way towards establishing that favorable disposition.</p>
<p>Allow me to close with a personal testimony of sorts that might illustrate what I have been talking about:</p>
<p>I like rationality. I am far more a head person than a heart person. The Unitarian Universalists and I get along very well. Yet even I found the service at the local branch that Sunday a bit too cerebral. If I were someone looking for a spiritual connection that morning, I would’ve appreciated the friendliness of the people and the earnestness of their beliefs. I would’ve been impressed by the fact that lay people preached and that the branch president earned his living elsewhere, but I think I would have decided to search elsewhere for that connection with the Spirit. And given the emphasis on personal testimony in the LDS, there is, I think, a sad irony here. Simply put, I would expect people who are convinced that God still speaks to them to offer a little less talk and a little more encounter in their Sunday morning worship.</p>
<p>And once again I hasten to add that this is the perception of someone who is sympathetic to the LDS but not a member. I therefore thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts with you. I pray that they will stimulate not only thought but prayer on what it means to worship and to witness and the connection between the two. In turn I hope that such thought and prayer will result in seeing the power of the Holy Spirit change even more lives. I am also eager to hear how the current sacrament meeting works in the lives of those who already find it meaningful. By listening to the voices of both those who “get it” and those who don’t (at least not yet) perhaps greater spiritual growth will be possible for all.</p>
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		<title>LDS Worship &#8211; Part II</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/13/lds-worship-part-ii/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/13/lds-worship-part-ii/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=4901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The following is the second part of the series written for us by David Stout, Disciples of Christ minister, about his perception of LDS worship.  The first post can be read here.  Again, thank you, David. The second reason (I am interested in the possibility of returning a bit of the former fire of earlier Mormonism to the current church) lifts the service I attended from the background of Mormon history and sets it against the backdrop of the LDS future. As I mentioned parenthetically in my previous post, one of the talks used in the Sacrament Meeting I attended was one given originally by David McKay. As I understand it, President McKay was the prophet who set the LDS on its modern missionary explosion. Prior to his time Mormonism was largely confined to the mountain west. McKay, however, had a vision of a broader reach and that was the impetus for the current status of the LDS as a nascent worldwide religious community. This in turn raises the issue of missionary activity. The talk which McKay had given perceptively realized that sending out missionaries would not, by itself, achieve the desired ends. Every Saint needed to see him or [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The following is the second part of the series written for us by David Stout, Disciples of Christ minister, about his perception of LDS worship.  The first post can be read <strong><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/07/lds-worship/">here</a></strong></em><em>.  Again, thank you, David. </em></p>
<p>The second reason (I am interested in the possibility of returning a bit of the former fire of earlier Mormonism to the current church) lifts the service I attended from the background of Mormon history and sets it against the backdrop of the LDS future. As I mentioned parenthetically in my previous post, one of the talks used in the Sacrament Meeting I attended was one given originally by David McKay. As I understand it, President McKay was the prophet who set the LDS on its modern missionary explosion. Prior to his time Mormonism was largely confined to the mountain west. McKay, however, had a vision of a broader reach and that was the impetus for the current status of the LDS as a nascent worldwide religious community. <span id="more-4901"></span></p>
<p>This in turn raises the issue of missionary activity. The talk which McKay had given perceptively realized that sending out missionaries would not, by itself, achieve the desired ends. Every Saint needed to see him or herself as a missionary, bearing witness and providing contacts for the “tie guys” to follow up on. Keep this thought on the back burner for a minute.</p>
<p>Just long enough ago for me to forget the source, I read an article which addressed some of the difficulties LDS missionaries abroad were facing. One was the explosive growth of Pentecostalism, another was the lack of well formed LDS communities, a third was the disadvantage of missionary “roll over” especially when contrasted with the long term work of Protestant and Catholic missionaries, and the last was the lack of indigenous expression in Mormon worship. One former African Mormon convert said that the reason he gave up on the LDS was that it just wasn’t African.</p>
<p>Now add in the words of Gladys Knight to Gordon Hinkley, “I like everything about the Mormon Church except the music.” Knight has since developed a Latter Day Saint gospel choir which, significantly, has been very effective at getting contacts for missionaries. Let that sink in a minute: a black gospel style choir is proving very effective in getting a hearing for the gospel message as understood by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.</p>
<p>Bring McKay’s vision back into the mix. I would suggest (and here my outsider standing might be of particular import since it is non Mormons that you wish to attract) that if the LDS is going to successfully jump to the next level of its growth then two related things might need to happen. One is a greater sensitivity and openness to the process of inculturation. The other is a greater emphasis  (or rediscovery) of the power of spiritual encounter and ongoing revelation. The two are obviously related. It isn’t likely that many people are going to have a spiritual encounter if they find the delivery and expression of the gospel excessively foreign. Going the other way, spiritual encounter is most easily encouraged, nurtured, and spread when it incorporates as much as possible of the individual’s culture.</p>
<p>These two principles are at the heart of the modern missionary movement which has seen the dramatic growth of Christianity throughout the non western world. Once missionaries started concentrating on making disciples of Christ instead of exporting English or American or Italian culture they started doing very well. Indeed, the core of Christianity now lies south of the equator in Asia, Africa, and South America rather than in its old bastions of Europe and the United States.</p>
<p>From talking with a local ward leader, I know that maintaining sound doctrine is of paramount importance in the LDS. This makes the prospect of inculturation and greater freedom of expression in worship and witness a bit threatening. One does not wish to lose control of what is said and done in the name of the LDS and/or watering down the restored gospel. Having both evangelical and Roman Catholic roots, I understand the concern and (especially as a guest in this venue) I do not want to make light of it.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I would point out that the Roman Catholic Church with 1.2 billion very diverse people has still managed to maintain its historic teaching and practice while allowing for considerable local color and expression. The Mass has proven flexible enough to keep its basic structure very much intact and yet still accommodate a plethora of indigenous customs and music. The music of Bach or Brubeck are both entirely capable of conveying the ancient mystery of Christ’s body and blood. So are the genres of soul, black gospel, and bluegrass.</p>
<p>Evangelicals have likewise managed to keep to a pretty rigid orthodoxy while allowing for all sorts of worship expression. Curiously, I have personally found that the more creative the worship, the more traditional the teaching. What makes this particularly interesting is the fact that evangelicalism is a broad based movement with no central authority.</p>
<p>I should think that if a church the size of the Roman Catholic communion and a movement as decentralized as Evangelicalism can keep their doctrinal commitments while allowing freedom for local expression, then surely the LDS with its off the charts organizational genius could do the same.</p>
<p>I would also suggest that by reclaiming some of its early heritage, the LDS could speak more powerfully to the post modern world where heart tends to trump head and where music often speaks most powerfully than sermon. (As a preacher I mourn this development, but I do not dispute its veracity.)</p>
<p>To put it another way, I found the service that morning to be very similar to a Unitarian Universalist service. Given that the UU is over the top rationalistic with a very strong secularist element, this is really saying something. I would think that the LDS, a movement rooted in prophecy and revelation, would offer a very different kind of service from the UU, a movement rooted in rationalism.</p>
<p>Now again I want to underscore the fact that I write as a non Mormon and I recognize the fact that there must be something about the sacrament meeting that does work and that the current missionary strategy has proven quite effective. Consequently it could be very well argued that there is no point messing with success and I would not object in the least if you, the reader, took that position.</p>
<p>But I would humbly suggest that maybe the broader vision of David McKay, the insights and success of Gladys Knight and her gospel choir, and the early roots of the LDS Church itself might raise some heretofore unconsidered possibilities for reaching more people from different backgrounds. I would also suggest that these same possibilities for more effective mission might also bring the sacrament meeting and the principle of ongoing revelation into greater practical coherence.</p>
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		<title>What Advice Would You Give Our Bishops? (&#8220;Missionary Work&#8221;)</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/03/27/what-advice-would-you-give-our-bishops-missionary-work/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/03/27/what-advice-would-you-give-our-bishops-missionary-work/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 06:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=4679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am on the Stake Missionary Committee, and Wednesday night we had a fascinating set of meetings.  I couldn&#8217;t help but think as the meetings unfolded that everyone here would have been shocked at the conversation flow and the end result of our final committee meeting.  I don&#8217;t want to go into lots of detail, but I do want to recap two highlights and ask everyone here the same question my Stake President asked us: What advice would you have me give our Bishops?  As a quick explanation, we have our monthly bishops training meeting next week, and after we finished the standard summary of the current investigators and their individual needs our Stake President turned the discussion to the upcoming meeting with the bishops.  We discussed a number of things relative to missionary work, and then, right before he left to do other Stake President stuff, he left the Missionary Committee with a charge.  He said: I want you to give me some concrete suggestions for what to ask of our Bishops to improve missionary work in our stake. The following is an explanation of the three things we are suggesting to him, with a brief explanation of why [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am on the Stake Missionary Committee, and Wednesday night we had a fascinating set of meetings.  <img class="alignright" title="Mormon Missionaries" src="http://www.whymormonism.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/mormon_missionary.jpg" alt="" width="188" height="250" />I couldn&#8217;t help but think as the meetings unfolded that everyone here would have been shocked at the conversation flow and the end result of our final committee meeting.  I don&#8217;t want to go into lots of detail, but I do want to recap two highlights and ask everyone here the same question my Stake President asked us:</p>
<blockquote><p>What advice would you have me give our Bishops?  <span id="more-4679"></span></p></blockquote>
<p>As a quick explanation, we have our monthly bishops training meeting next week, and after we finished the standard summary of the current investigators and their individual needs our Stake President turned the discussion to the upcoming meeting with the bishops.  We discussed a number of things relative to missionary work, and then, right before he left to do other Stake President stuff, he left the Missionary Committee with a charge.  He said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I want you to give me some concrete suggestions for what to ask of our Bishops to improve missionary work in our stake.</p></blockquote>
<p>The following is an explanation of the three things we are suggesting to him, with a brief explanation of why we are making those suggestions:</p>
<p><img class="alignleft" title="Chrstus Statue" src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/16/90232317_3bc3f08e71.jpg" alt="" width="175" height="129" /><strong>1) Instruct the Bishops to focus our Sacrament Meetings on Christ. </strong></p>
<p>We had mentioned this when the Stake President still was with us, but we were unanimous that the best thing we can do to share the Gospel with others at the ward level is to have deeply spiritual Sacrament Meetings &#8211; and we all felt like too many talks were focused on topics that, while important as practical matters, were better suited for Relief Society and Priesthood meeting.  We talked of how we too often lose sight of the unique purpose of a meeting that is supposed to focus on <strong>WORSHIP</strong> &#8211; by introducing topics that are not &#8220;worshipful&#8221;.  We mentioned specifically that the following topics are not appropriate for Sacrament Meeting:</p>
<p>a) Food Storage (unanimous groans about that as a topic)</p>
<p>b) &#8220;Missionary Work&#8221; (one very dedicated, ultra-conservative High Councilor said he &#8220;withdraws&#8221; emotionally whenever &#8220;missionary work&#8221; is the topic of a talk &#8211; and, remember, this was the Missionary Committee)</p>
<p>c) Tithing (a spiritual law, but not focused on Christ)</p>
<p>d) anything else that is &#8220;programmatic&#8221; and not focused on becoming Christ-like</p>
<p>We talked of making sure each and every topic includes, at the very least, the qualifier, &#8220;and how understanding and living this principle (or developing this characteristic) will help me become more like Christ&#8221;.  We also talked of working to eliminate travelogues, thank-amonies and quasi-talks from Fast and Testimony Meeting.</p>
<p><strong>2) Instruct the Bishops to personally set an example for the members of love and fellowship of ALL who walk through the doors at church. </strong><img class="alignright" title="Christian Fellowship" src="http://www.crossroadsrockford.org/welcome.JPG" alt="" width="344" height="186" /></p>
<p>Do this in part by ending all administrative meetings no later than 15 minutes before the start of Sacrament Meeting, spending at least 10 minutes mingling with those who are attending Sacrament Meeting each week, seeking out and just being friendly with EVERYONE not known personally, and being seated on the stand at least 5 minutes before the meeting starts &#8211; reverently listening to the prelude music and asking the congregation to do the same.</p>
<p><strong>3) Ask the Bishops to instruct their Ward Councils and Activities Committees to coordinate regular activities around service opportunities in their communities.<br />
</strong></p>
<p><img class="alignleft" title="Christian Service" src="http://www-new.onu.edu/files/images/chapel/HABITAT.jpg" alt="" width="386" height="164" />Don&#8217;t add &#8220;extra&#8221; activities, but replace most of the activities they generally do currently.  Rather than have a ward dinner and talent show held in the cultural hall, for example, provide a dinner and talent show at a retirement community, nursing home or homeless shelter.  Don&#8217;t create more activities; rather, be less exclusive and insular &#8211; focusing the activities on helping and serving others.</p>
<p>Most of our conversation focused on helping members let go of referring to &#8220;doing missionary work&#8221; and begin to see it instead as &#8220;sharing the Gospel&#8221;.</p>
<p>So, for this post, I ask the same question:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>With regard to &#8220;missionary work&#8221;, what advice would you give our Bishops?<strong><br />
</strong></em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>Why aren&#8217;t Mormons Green?</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/02/23/why-arent-mormons-green/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/02/23/why-arent-mormons-green/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 06:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=4112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have lived here in the UK -London for 20 years now and when friends and family come over they sometimes comment on how green we are over here. They observe that most of us dry our clothes on the  line, drive much smaller cars, live in shoe box’s compared to the average size of an American home, walk to the shops, use long life low wattage low energy bulbs, changing windows over for double glazing, doubling up on insulation, are becoming more obsessive about recycling, drive low emission high mpg diesel cars, save left over food, food portions at restaurants smaller and public transport used far more often and readily available. It amazes some of the Brits when they go to Utah to see how big the houses are especially in many cases for so few people who live in them.  Huge Ford Explorers, steak dinners that could feed a typical family of four.  When they go for the first time they come back thinking that it’s a land of excess. I know there have been many of the changes I have described above happening in Utah and throughout the states but there is not quite the buzz or [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/smart-car.bmp"><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-4113" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/smart-car.bmp" alt="" /></a><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/smart-car.bmp"><span id="more-4112"></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have lived here in the UK -London for 20 years now and when friends and family come over they sometimes comment on how green we are over here. They observe that most of us dry our clothes on the  line, drive much smaller cars, live in shoe box’s compared to the average size of an American home, walk to the shops, use long life low wattage low energy bulbs, changing windows over for double glazing, doubling up on insulation, are becoming more obsessive about recycling, drive low emission high mpg diesel cars, save left over food, food portions at<span> </span>restaurants smaller and public transport used far more often and readily available.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It amazes some of the Brits when they go to Utah to see how big the houses are especially in many cases for so few people who live in them.  Huge Ford Explorers, steak dinners that could feed a typical family of four.  When they go for the first time they come back thinking<span> </span>that it’s a land of excess.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I know there have been many of the changes I have described above happening in Utah and throughout the states but there is not quite the buzz or emphasis on it that I see here at least IMO!</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/american-green.bmp"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-4115" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/american-green.bmp" alt="" /></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I also have this theory that Mormons aren’t into green issues because</p>
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<ol type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal">Many believe the second      coming will be coming soon (God the creator of this earth will be able to      clean up the planet in a second, our efforts are pointless.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">We have to get our      priorities right &#8211; family, missionary work, ward service, temple      work.  Being green is definitely not a priority now</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">If it was important the      prophet and apostles would be vigorously emphasizing it during conference.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">It would be stressed and      accentuated in the manuals</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">Gas guzzling cars &#8211; God      created fossil fuels for our use.  He created this earth and when we      run out God will inspire man to come up with an alternative fuel &#8211; he      always provides for us.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">God made fossil fuel for      our use and we are fortunate to be Americans and live in a place where      fuel is cheap and are blessed to be here.</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">We have proven ourselves in      the pre-existence and in this life and we deserve the just rewards for      being faithful members</li>
<li class="MsoNormal">An attitude of the more physical stuff I have cars, houses, boats shows were being blessed abundantly</li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span class="fullpost"><span style="&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">We have been hearing a lot about fuel and energy—about their high cost and limited supply, our unsafe and unpredictable dependence on their suppliers, and the need for new and sustainable sources of energy. I leave the discussion of these complicated issues to leaders of government and industry. The fuel I want to discuss is spiritual fuel. </span></span><span style="&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">Elder L. Tom Perry </span></li>
</ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please discuss</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/english-green1.bmp"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-4117" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/english-green1.bmp" alt="" /></a></p>
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		<title>Becoming a Moderate Mormon</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/07/23/becoming-a-moderate-mormon/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/07/23/becoming-a-moderate-mormon/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#8217;ve established that there are conservative Mormons (obviously) and there are liberal or &#8220;new order&#8221; Mormons.  Taking the politico-religious rhetoric to its next logical conclusion, I&#8217;d like to make a case for moderate (or independent) Mormonism. A recent article in Time discussed the differences between liberal and conservative patriotism.  The key points really resonated with me for how Mormons view loyalty to the church. Conservatives Hallmarks of Loyalty:  paying tribute to the past (Pioneer Day?) even while portraying an idealized past that never existed, preserving the culture even to the exclusion of initiates (Mormon colonialism?), a tendency to grade on a curve because they take a dim view of human nature (Mormon persecution complex, Haun&#8217;s Mill?); use of symbols to portray loyalty (Mormon artifacts in our homes?). Signs of Disloyalty (to a Conservative):  Criticism of the cultural norms or the glorious past; the infiltration of new norms into the culture; questioning the claim of greatness. What they get right:  There&#8217;s something to be said for loving the church like you love your (possibly dysfunctional) family:  because it is your heritage and your home. Cautions:  May become &#8220;nationalist&#8221; (&#8220;one true church&#8221; mentality) or dismissive of other faiths; tend to substitute myth [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;">We&#8217;ve established that there are conservative Mormons (obviously) and there are liberal or &#8220;new order&#8221; Mormons.  Taking the politico-religious rhetoric to its next logical conclusion, I&#8217;d like to make a case for moderate (or independent) Mormonism.<span id="more-701"></span></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">A recent <a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1818195,00.html">article </a>in Time discussed the differences between liberal and conservative patriotism.  The key points really resonated with me for how Mormons view loyalty to the church.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="alignright" src="http://dyn.politico.com/snetwork/images/profile/71366AEC-188B-4976-D1C1B0025A59B940.JPG" alt="http://dyn.politico.com/snetwork/images/profile/71366AEC-188B-4976-D1C1B0025A59B940.JPG" width="128" height="164" /><strong>Conservatives<br />
</strong></p>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="color: #0000ff;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Hallmarks of Loyalty</span></strong></span>:  paying tribute to the past (Pioneer Day?) even while portraying an idealized past that never existed, preserving the culture even to the exclusion of initiates (Mormon colonialism?), a tendency to grade on a curve because they take a dim view of human nature (Mormon persecution complex, Haun&#8217;s Mill?); use of symbols to portray loyalty (Mormon artifacts in our homes?).</li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Signs of Disloyalty</span> (to a Conservative)</span></strong>:  Criticism of the cultural norms or the glorious past; the infiltration of new norms into the culture; questioning the claim of greatness.</li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">What they get right</span></span></strong>:  There&#8217;s something to be said for loving the church like you love your (possibly dysfunctional) family:  because it is your heritage and your home.</li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Cautions</span></span></strong>:  May become &#8220;nationalist&#8221; (&#8220;one true church&#8221; mentality) or dismissive of other faiths; tend to substitute myth for history; expect unquestioned loyalty to come first and foremost; over time, symbols and artifacts may become a substitute for real faith; may become a club for the pedigreed few.</li>
<li><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>The Big Question</strong></span></span>:  Can the church truly embrace converts (and liberal loyalists alike) with a near majority conservative loyalty worldview?</li>
</ul>
<p><img class="alignright" src="http://juliafarmer.net/images/don-quixote.gif" alt="http://juliafarmer.net/images/don-quixote.gif" width="127" height="160" /><strong>Liberals</strong></p>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li></li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Hallmarks of Loyalty</span></span></strong>:  Loyalty is to the ideals and concepts rather than to the organization; loyalty is about helping the church to live up to its potential in the future; new converts improve the church through diversity combined with commitment to the ideals; like to call the church on the carpet when it fails to live up to its ideals.</li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Signs of Disloyalty</span> (to a Liberal)</span></strong>:  Not owning up to mistakes of the past; reliance on symbols rather than the ideals; elevating the status of &#8220;insiders&#8221; regardless of merit.</li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">What they get right</span></span></strong>:  They keep the church (and leaders and members) honest by refocusing on the ideals (may be JS restorationists) and being willing to ask the tough questions.</li>
<li><strong><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Cautions</span></span></strong>:  Believe the church must earn the loyalty of its members by living up to its ideals which will not always be possible (fallibility of leaders and lay clergy); may dismiss the pragmatic realities necessary for the church&#8217;s self-preservation (policies vs. doctrines); if loyalty is to the ideals, one can seek the ideals elsewhere (but lose the benefit of the church framework and fellowship).</li>
<li><span style="color: #0000ff;"><strong>The Big Question</strong></span>:  When liberals leave the church is it due to actual flaws of the church or their own Quixotic idealism?</li>
</ul>
<p style="text-align: left;">The article cautioned both sides from going too far in asserting that their own patriotism is the only brand truly loyal to our country.  Isn&#8217;t that a great caution for us as Mormons?  Can&#8217;t we come to a moderate consensus about loyalty to the church that takes the best of both into account (or am I just being a liberal idealist to think so)?</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">So, are you a conservative, liberal or moderate Mormon?  How do you &#8220;reach across the aisle&#8221; to others?  Did you find anything new of value in the alternate perspective, or did this just confirm your biases?</p>
<p>Discuss.</p>
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		<title>A Chapel Entrance Plaque</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/30/a-chapel-entrance-plaque/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/30/a-chapel-entrance-plaque/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recently, I was in a meetinghouse in our area for the first time. On the wall directly above the entrance to the chapel, there is a small plaque. I intended to craft a thoughtful post elaborating on the message it gives to those who enter the chapel, but I just couldn&#8217;t get it started. I literally was drawing a blank. As I struggled to find the words I wanted to share, the corresponding hymn came to mind, instead, so I have linked it to the message itself. The link provides the option to play the hymn in various ways, so feel free to experiment and enjoy. Above the doors to that chapel, the plaque simply reads: &#8220;Peace &#8211; Be Still.&#8221;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently, I was in a meetinghouse in our area for the first time. On the wall directly above the entrance to the chapel, there is a small plaque. <span id="more-592"></span></p>
<p>I intended to craft a thoughtful post elaborating on the message it gives to those who enter the chapel, but I just couldn&#8217;t get it started.  I literally was drawing a blank.  As I struggled to find the words I wanted to share, the corresponding hymn came to mind, instead, so I have linked it to the message itself. The link provides the option to play the hymn in various ways, so feel free to experiment and enjoy.</p>
<p>Above the doors to that chapel, the plaque simply reads:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&amp;searchcollection=1&amp;searchseqstart=105&amp;searchsubseqstart=%20&amp;searchseqend=105&amp;searchsubseqend=ZZZ">&#8220;Peace &#8211; Be Still.&#8221;</a></p>
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