Comments for Mormon Matters

Comment on 98–99: “Middle Way” Mormonism and Women by An Oldster

An Oldster — Fri, 25 May 2012 00:40:00 +0000

This is a question for Salt Lake, I suppose, BUT do we have to endure the Primary program every year? Or ever again? I have never seen the spirituality of a meeting disappear so rapidly as when we have the little children waving and tramping (loudly) to their position or yelling into the microphone, and fond parents laughing, and encouraging the behavior. The principles the children are supposedly teaching us do not have anything to do with what they are actually learning in Primary. There are words spouted and songs sung in a disinterested way, but the children do not see the connection with what they have been taught. There is a total disconnect.

I suppose this is also considered heresy, but I think the thought of heresy comes from the younger generation as Sister Bushman has so tactfully pointed out. A question and comment from our Relief Society: “How do the young mothers get their husbands to help out so well during the meetings?” An oldster of my generation replied, “It’s because of us. We taught them.” I’ve heard over and over again. “It takes a generation to make a change in attitudes.”

Comment on 98–99: “Middle Way” Mormonism and Women by Alex S.

Alex S. — Thu, 24 May 2012 21:42:00 +0000

Just the opposite in our ward. We just had the graduating seniors speak. Three girls and two boys. On the program they had it girl-boy-girl-boy-girl with a girl speaking last. The first counselor when announcing the program made changes so that the boys all spoke last. It was a dumb and uneccesary change.

Comment on 98–99: “Middle Way” Mormonism and Women by Mandy Freeman

Mandy Freeman — Thu, 24 May 2012 20:09:00 +0000

Just so Claudia might feel better, I’m a female and I’m the concluding speaker in Sac’t mtg this coming Sunday. I’ve also been the concluding speaker in the other Sac’t mtg speeches I’ve given. I think this practice died out with the men-only-on-benediction practice. Some wards might still do it, but be happy knowing that there are many wards who don’t.

Comment on 98–99: “Middle Way” Mormonism and Women by Thisiscrazy28

Thisiscrazy28 — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:40:00 +0000

Awesome job, ladies. If there was an all-female, mormon version of The Avengers, I’m pretty sure it would be you four women

Comment on 98–99: “Middle Way” Mormonism and Women by Andrew Arthur Marsh

Andrew Arthur Marsh — Thu, 24 May 2012 08:12:00 +0000

This is awesome sauce.

Comment on 98–99: “Middle Way” Mormonism and Women by Eliza

Eliza — Thu, 24 May 2012 04:10:00 +0000

Thanks for having Claudia Bushman on the podcast. Made my first donation.

Comment on Matters of the Heart 2: On “Masturbatory Rage”: A Theatrical Call to Repentance by cwinchesteriii

cwinchesteriii — Wed, 23 May 2012 18:22:00 +0000

Masturbatory is a perfectly legitimate word.

Comment on 77-78: Recognizing “the Spirit” by cwinchesteriii

cwinchesteriii — Wed, 23 May 2012 18:20:00 +0000

How would one go about falsifying the idea of “the Spirit”? How would one go about differentiating it from ordinary emotion?

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by Utahhiker801

Utahhiker801 — Wed, 23 May 2012 15:52:00 +0000

I’m not sure that posting the same Leviticus passage on multiple comments gives your argument more weight, but I guess you can give it a shot.

I certainly hope that when a loved one in your life confides to you that they are gay that you respond more lovingly than with scriptural condemnation. Regrettably, I think it’s this strong rhetorical/doctrinal position which leads in large part to teenage homelessness, suicide and depression.

I’m sure your confidence in your position gives you great comfort.

Comment on Surviving Early-Morning Seminary by Banzipperjaysonlowe

Banzipperjaysonlowe — Wed, 23 May 2012 11:40:00 +0000

Sorry but to say that you can’t feel the spirit at 6 in the morning is ridiculous. I try to make 100% attendance and usually get pretty close, I’m in my past year and I love seminary and feel the spirit frequently. it’s your attitude, not the time of morning, no offence meant.

Comment on Nepotism in the Church by Soy_el_Guapo

Soy_el_Guapo — Mon, 21 May 2012 20:20:00 +0000

And you made sure you put it in all CAPS to make your point, right? If you knew anything about the lineage of Joesph Smith, none of his family came into leadership of the church, as for Brigham Young, some have, but that is because Young is a big name, as is with the name Smith, but none of them where Joesph Smith Jr’s children, grandchildren, etc. If Young’s children were inept in anyway, that would probably be their own fault, but to blame that for someone who had no control over that, you cannot and should not blame them, and yet, you are.

Comment on Squaring the Circle, balance and ideals by Whyoming

Whyoming — Mon, 21 May 2012 18:09:00 +0000

Wow this was the most history that I have ever learned in my entire life, and
I’m 93 years old! Glad you could post this and share it with me and with all of the other Egyptions in Houston, whyoming. Or wait, is it north Dakota? Idk I’m loosing my brains. Well see ya gal!

Comment on King David and the Doctrine of Blood Atonement by atomzer0

atomzer0 — Mon, 21 May 2012 15:44:00 +0000

Possibly over 90% Telestial? Wow, I’ve never heard anyone that pessimistic. Everyone will go where they choose. They’ll know what they missed out on, but they will all have a degree of happiness where they end up. A loving God whose plan involves the best of both justice and mercy will not leave anyone to suffer forever. Infinite suffering, finite duration.

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Fri, 18 May 2012 19:07:00 +0000

Dismissing the first five books of the Bible as stories written by tribesman indicates an extreme disgust for the word of God.

Did you miss this one?

“And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” (Deut. 6:5

We’ll see who’s full of love and who’s full of hate … those who love the Lord and value his word, or those who dismiss it out of hand and poke fun at it.

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by R. P. Isaak

R. P. Isaak — Thu, 17 May 2012 21:43:00 +0000

Apriles, you are so ignorant and filled with hate its not even funny. Bigots like you are the shame of The Church…..”Wo unto those that turn but One soul from me” that Commandment is in effect now, stated recently. Leviticus? Is that all you got….this is Evango-Nazi/ Christo-Fascist stuff, the stuff Mormo-Nazis use to get into bed with Republicans, Conservatives, Tea-Bagottry, and all the other Perditionally Hell Bound Right Wing Religiosityists. It’s sichening and disgusting. The preface to the Book of Mormon tells us that Jesus told Joseph to his face, “all the other churches are an abomination before my face”..true then, true now. Stop trying to link us with bigoted Hellbound doctrine or ideas. Most of the first five books of the Bible are stories written by tribesmen (Getting no input from any God I will ever worship) wanted to self glorify their own tribe or band…..Barbaric burchery of women and children, death sentences to all men who cut their hair, And all men who didn’t cut their hair. If you tally everything up, ALL PEOPLE ON EARTH SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH.These people were a bunch of ignorant dip sticks…you come across as one everytime you cherry pick that verse. There are at least 680 verses on how Mammon and Capitalism are of the Devil. Why aren’t you railing against that…..680 is way more than 1…..money is got to be at least 680 times more perditionally damnable than anything you self conjure out of Lev. And anther thing, you people are so sex and crotch obsessed, its a laugh. Its performed alot less than you think. And marriage is about love and commitment, not sex. How dare you diminish what I have with my wife and family to my crotch and how its rubbed. Besides, gays and lesbians don’t lye the same way with each other as so called Heteroes do, you literalistic bafoon. Utah and Mormons have the most prolific Porn and wife beating problem in the country. Bishops have had to read hundreds of letters to their Wards admonishing us priesthood brethren to stop beating our wives and viewing porn, thats why the Proc. on Family was written, not for you Sadistic/Satanic Homophobes to trot out as a tool of hate…that is way more of a sin than anything your railing against (and Lev, is far worse and more pathetic). I look forward to many great new prophesies and pronouncements, many will cause thousands of Bigots to leave the Church like in 1978. Funny thing about God and new revelations…they always seem to do away with unenlightened and bigoted policy…never do they affirm bigotry or intill new bigotries into us. The arc of history bends toward justice, and so does the Church. So sad you are on the wrong side, even if we were a theocracy. See D&C 134..WE are Commanded Never to try To CODIFY our own doctrine onto the will of others. You people are just a sad, pathetic and dour lot…..everything is doom and gloom…I know your ilk….your crazy clique is in every ward. Good Day.

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 19:09:00 +0000

Humans are given the ability to express themselves in righteousness through the gifts the Lord has given them. He gives them the full ability to express themselves based on who they are. He doesn’t make any mistakes on the matter, either. You are male or you are female. Eternally.

Any honest person has to admit that disobeying the Lord is wicked. And wickedness never was happiness.

(Lev. 18:22)

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 19:06:00 +0000

I guess we can “play nice” with sin instead of repenting. Oh, that’s going to be a sure-fire way to get into heaven. Jesus is bound to buy it, right?

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 19:05:00 +0000

Guess the people who disobey the Lord and therefore make themselves unfit for heaven feel pretty disenfranchised, huh? So I guess we should just endorse their disobedience to make them feel better about their refusal to repent. Why bother to have humility before the Lord when you’d rather dictate to him that wickedness is really okay, right?

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 19:03:00 +0000

Like any sin, homosexuality becomes more prevalent when society condones it rather than listening to the Lord.

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Lev. 18:22)

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 19:01:00 +0000

I just love Jacob’s thoughts on the subject. He agreed with the Lord, who delights in the chastity of woman.

“For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.” (Jacob 2:31)

Just go to the Lord if you want the real story. As a woman, I can definitely say I’d side with Jacob over Solomon any day. Jacob understood the Lord and lived in a way to please him. But Solomon decided that what Jesus really wanted for him wasn’t as important as making political alliances through marriage … multiple ones. Many, many multiple ones.

I disagree with the idea of polygamy being a church doctrine. Should LDS doctrine endorse wickedness and abomination? No. What we need is more Jacobs and fewer Solomons. Heck, what do we need to support a Solomon for?

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 18:52:00 +0000

“For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women.
And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.” (Jacob 2:28)

There are all kinds of whoredoms, including those in which a man or woman takes multiple spouses without even bothering to get the consent of the first spouse. Let’s take, for example, my uncle, who married three different women in quick succession after my aunt died. Did he get her consent? No. I talked to my mom about it and she said my aunt’s thinking agreed with hers: NEVER, never, never take another spouse. Don’t tell me that my uncle was unaware of that.

So my uncle committed whoredom in the Lord’s eyes, whether it was socially acceptable or not. (His first wife died, then he divorced each additional spouse before taking another one.)

As for a gay relationship, the Lord has commanded us to abstain from it. (Lev. 18:22)

Think breaking the Lord’s commandments pays off? Not in this world, and not in the next.

“Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.”

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 18:45:00 +0000

I guess if we have a consensus that we don’t have to listen to the Lord that this can get us into heaven, right? We can be pretty libertarian and call wickedness a consensual relationship, and the Lord’s going to be fooled by it, right? And he’s going to forget what he said on the subject so we can do just as we please and get away with it. Right?

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Lev. 18:22)
“Neither shalt thou commit adultery.” (Deut. 5:18)

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 18:42:00 +0000

Let’s not beat around the bush. Living the “lower law” is disobeying the higher law. Again, I repeat, there is in reality no such thing as a lower law. There is one law: righteousness. If you prefer wickedness, then you reap the reward of the wicked. You can’t just throw off the Lord here and do as you please and expect that in heaven now you can go be with him, for you will be filthy still.

“And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still.” (Mormon 9:14)

He who rejects the Lord here rejects him once and for all. Try going your own wicked way and then getting into heaven. Guess what? It’s not going to work.

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 18:37:00 +0000

The only promising line of conversation you can take is one that goes by what the Lord actually said.

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Lev. 18:22)

Is there room for argument here? No.

Comment on 92–93: Can Mormon Theology Affirm Homosexual Relationships Now and in the Eternities? by apriles

apriles — Thu, 17 May 2012 18:36:00 +0000

If there’s a temptation, run from it. It’s a snare of the enemy. Geesh! So hard to understand …

“And behold I say unto you all that this was a snare of the adversary, which he has laid to catch this people, that he might bring you into subjection unto him, that he might encircle you about with his chains, that he might chain you down to everlasting destruction, according to the power of his captivity.” (Alma 12:6)