Mormon Matters

72: Effecting Change in the Church

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 03:59:50 +0000

This episode features panelists who all are deeply involved with theLDSChurch, yet from their position of involvement in, and love and affection for, the church and those they worship and serve with, each of them acts as an agent for change. As one of the panelists, Carol Lynn Pearson, suggests in the podcast, don’t we all want to be a blessing to those we love? But while the idea of bringing about “change” being a way of “blessing” others flows easily from Carol Lynn and the other panelists, these two don’t equate this way for many Latter-day Saints who, like most people, don’t naturally embrace change, and when it comes to change in the church view any and all course corrections as solely for general leaders to instigate.

In this podcast, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Chelsea Robarge Fife, Chelsea Shields Strayer, and Carol Lynn Pearson reflect on ways to help mitigate this idea of waiting to be directed and to instead act in ways that model love, build trust, and effectively bring about positive shifts in LDS culture, emphases, and beyond. In this far-ranging discussion, they discuss tips and share stories, successes, and failures in their lives as change agents. What are the secrets to the kind of confidence they have that it is their right, and even duty, to work for greater tolerance and awareness, and less harm?

We invite you to share your own stories, best practices, fears, or whatever else you’d care to share in the comments section below.

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Links to supplemental reading and listening:

Item on Carol Lynn Pearson’s website about work going on in the Oakland California Stake toward better understanding and loving our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

Carol Lynn Pearson’s “A Walk in Pink Moccasins”

Patheos podcast, The Round Table, featuring Chelsea Shields Strayer and heads of other LDS women’s organizations and blogs.

Armand Mauss essay, “Alternate Voices: The Calling and Its Implications.” Classic Sunstone essay reflecting on finding a comfortable niche in Mormonism as an “alternate voice.” Includes his “decalogue for dissenters,” ten commandments (tips) for both surviving and being effective outside the LDS mainstream.

71: Make Love AND War!: Maintaining Positive Relationships During Faith Transitions—A Spiritual Framing

Dan Wotherspoon — Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:47:20 +0000

This is an expanded version of the talk Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon gave at the Houston Region Mormon Stories Support Community conference held 20-21 January 2012. Using the biblical accounts of Jacob and the angel, and Jacob and Esau, as key texts, and organized around the central image of a “wrestling match” being simultaneously a fight but also an embrace, along with the idea of the close ties between making love and making war, the talk is geared toward providing ways of thinking about faith crises in positive ways–as integral parts of the larger human developmental journey–and then allowing those kinds of encouragements to work on our hearts and minds in a manner that will allow us to make peace with God (even if we totally end up thinking about or experiencing God or Truth and/or the spiritual path in new ways), church, friends and family who may be struggling with our pulling away from them in terms of having a shared worldview, as well as, even most importantly, ourselves. From this place of greater centeredness, achieved only as we go through the life and death match and agonizing processes of coming to fully center authority in ourselves and our own deep and genuine experiences rather than by giving that authority over to others–persons, institutions, and texts–we will be able to joyfully interact once more with loved ones. They may still not “understand” what we have (and are still) going through, but most of them will not be able to resist us in our greater, more peaceful and happier incarnation forever. And even if they continue to do so, we will be fed by a deep sense of peace and connection and groundedness in spirit that we will be able to be patient and still lovingly interact with them.

We are called to the arena. God/Spirit/Our highest self is ready and encouraging us to fight–and through that fight to love more deeply. Will we answer the bugle’s call?

Note from Dan Wotherspoon: This was produced as a narrated slide show, and the end result is far too long! I get this! I totally didn’t expect it to take this long to say all that I wanted to say. It is not a comfortable thing for me to play the role of “sage on the stage” and be in front speaking. I’m far more interested in serving as a vehicle for others to step into the forefront to share their insights; I far prefer the kinds of conversations I host in a typical Mormon Matters episode. But when all was said and done with this crazy process of recording the things I would have liked to say if I’d had the time to do it at the Houston conference, I have to admit that it did feel good to “put out there” in sort of a big chunk many of the things that animate my life and journey within Mormonism and in my own personal wrestles. I hope it doesn’t come across as too self-indulgent to present these ideas at such great length. I promise this will not become a habit! Back to panel discussions next week!

Link to Rick Jepson article, “Godwrestling: Physicality, Conflict, and Redemption in Mormon Doctrine” (Sunstone, November 2005)

70: Is the World Getting Worse?

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 04:51:29 +0000

We hear them all the time, statements about the world “going to hell in a hand basket,” sighs and longings for “the good old days,” warnings of rampant moral decay and declarations to all who want to follow God that they are living in “enemy territory.” For those prone to depression and anxiety, such framings of the world and today’s moral and spiritual state exacerbate their struggles. For children, these notions feed fears and cause some to wonder if this world is really worth engaging. There are also dozens of other subtle ways that these kinds of assessments can act against our emotional, spiritual, and physical health and well-being. The most tragic aspect of these sorts of pessimistic framings is that according to studies from many fields, the data does not prove this tale of hopeless, inevitable continual decay to be justified. Violence is down, freedom is up, and scores of other social health and happiness indexes largely show things trending in positive directions. If this is true, how, then, should we think about the apocalypticism that affects so much discussion in both the world and in Mormonism?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists—LDS therapists Natasha Helfer Parker and Marybeth Raynes, and philosopher and intellectual historian James McLachlan—discuss these messages and their persistence, the strength of the evidence for their accuracy, and their effects on people in general and those prone to depression and anxiety in particular. As all the panelists recognize, it is important to strike a healthy balance between optimism and pessimism, and there is a strong need for everyone to be alert to dangers and take reasonable steps for their protection. But for those who haven’t found this balance (or for those who love someone like this), they offer suggestions for how people might learn to concentrate on different, more positive messages. They also discuss possible ways we might talk with and offer fresh framings about the world situation to our children and loved ones who are overly wrought with doomsday fears.

If it’s possible to “enjoy” a discussion about apocalyptic anxiety, we hope you will do just that! And then please join in the conversation in the comments discussion below.

69: Patriarchal Blessings

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 02:12:46 +0000

One of Mormonism’s unique features is the patriarchal blessing in which LDS church members–generally mid-teens or older, though there is no official age limit–are given the chance to have hands laid upon their heads by an experienced and humble priesthood leader who has been set apart as a “patriarch” and to receive from him words of wisdom, inspiration, encouragement, guidance, and in many cases, prophetic-type pronouncements about possibilities for their lives, with some of these statements quite specific or unique. Most Latter-day Saints consider their patriarchal blessings wonderful treasures in their lives, and as containing words (as panelist Richard Bushman says in this episode) that are “set apart from other words” and seen as God’s words just for us. They are, as he says, words that can galvanize our powers, direct us, humble us, and make us better people.

There is, however, quite an air of mystery around patriarchal blessings, and because of their unique character and the felt sense of sacredness surrounding them, many Latter-day Saints add expectations about what these blessings are that are perhaps not warranted. Some see them as absolute predictors of future events or straight-from-God declarations about their past lives as spirits before mortality. As a result, some who have previously taken statements in their blessings (or the blessings of others) to be literal, “this and this is going to happen” kinds of pronouncements, become quite troubled when events do not unfold exactly as the blessing suggested–or at least they felt it suggested according to the reading they brought to it or the expectations they had about the nature of these blessings.

In this Mormon Matters episode, we have the privilege of having a wonderfully fresh and engaging discussion with Richard Bushman, a well-known and distinguished historian who from 1989 until a few years ago also served as a stake patriarch. He, in interaction with podcast host Dan Wotherspoon and panelist Jared Anderson, generously offers his perspectives on just what patriarchal blessings are–and what they are not. In what way are they “prophecy”–and he does not back down from that term!–but also what are our responsibilities in working with all words of God, even prophecy (which, he is very adamant about, are all mediated by human minds)? How might someone re-frame what they see as a patriarchal blessing’s promise–such as being alive at the time of Christ’s return–that has “failed”? He also shares much about his own calling to be a patriarch and what the experience of giving patriarchal blessings is like for him. He explores his sense of what it means to declare someone’s “lineage” through one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Jared Anderson, in this section as well as an earlier framing of biblical precedents for patriarchal blessings and prophecies offers a wonderful reminder of the history of Israel and the “lost tribes,” along with fascinating insights into certain lines of argument in today’s biblical scholarship that both complicate and possibly free up for some people expectations about literal descent or what is going on when the Bible seems to contain passages that predict the future. Finally, the panelists discuss the idea of pre-existence in Mormon thought that often finds its way into patriarchal blessings through the words of some patriarchs who declare things about recipients’ “valiancy” during the War in Heaven or refer to some other aspect of pre-earth existence. If some people are declared to have been especially valiant, is the flip-side true that many others were not? Evil has often been done with such ideas, so this notion offers a good opportunity for an important wrestle–one that this discussion delivers, and one that we hope (along with many other themes in this episode) will continue to play out in the blog comments below.

67–68: The Happiness Puzzle

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 01:54:10 +0000

What seems like something very simple to answer–”What is happiness?” or even, “What makes me happy?”–turns out to be anything but easy. How much do our expectations or pre-conceived ideas about what will make us happy come into play? How does the number of choices we have affect satisfaction with our lives? How much of our happiness level reflects what we experience in the moments of our lives versus how we reflect upon our experiences–the stories we tell about them? How much do our relationships with family, loved ones, and people we enjoy being around contribute to our feelings of well-being? What about a sense of purpose, whether it be on a small and personal scale or something more cosmic in scope? And more specific to Mormon Stories audience members, how tied to our happiness is our relationship to institutions such as theLDSChurch? Do people with different temperaments generally find more or less satisfaction within the church–and how natural or important is it to continually renegotiate boundaries between ourselves and institutional forces that might work against the deepening of our self-understanding or our relationship with the divine and other factors that contribute to our contentment and how fully we flourish emotionally and spiritually?

In this two-episode discussion–the questions, ideas, and opinions were too big for just one!–Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jared Anderson, Greg Rockwell, and KC Kern engage in a far-ranging and sometimes quite intense discussion about happiness in its theoretical and scientific glory, as well as in the more personal push and pull of the panelists’ interactions with Mormonism. These episodes present a lot to chew on, and the panelists each represent four distinct personalities and ways of engaging the church and LDS community in their own pursuits of happiness. But in the end, the only thing that is clear is that happiness is a huge puzzle that all of us must put together for ourselves.

Episode 67 contains the more theoretical portion of the discussions of happiness, what is being shown by scientific and sociological studies, as well as the key role of temperament in someone’s perception of their happiness (and especially as it might relate to spirituality and comfort within institutions that have the capacity to be all-encompassing if one lets them).

Episode 68 features the panelists personal stories and takes on Mormon-specific questions and how they pursue their happiness outside or inside the LDS church through their different ways of relating to it in their own journeys toward joy.

Even at 3-plus hours when you add up both parts, there is still much more to say and wrestle with, so we very much hope you’ll listen and engage in the discussion below!

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Links to interesting things that informed much of the general discussion:

Daniel Kahneman, “The Riddle of Experience Vs. Memory” (TED talk)

Dan Gilbert, “Why Are We Happy?” (TED talk)

Barry Schwartz, “The Paradox of Choice” (TED talk)

Paul Zak: “Trust, Morality–and Oxytocin” (TED talk)

Dan Ariely, “Are We in Control of Our Own Decisions?” (TED talk)

“Pursuing Happiness.” (On Being episode). Discussion of happiness hosted by Krista Tippett and featuring His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Seyyed Hossein Nasr (Muslim scholar), Bishop Katharin Jefferts Schori (Episcopal Church), and Chief Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks (Jewish leader in the U.K.).

Andrew Weil: “Spontaneous Happiness: Our Nature-Deficit Disorder” (originally in Newsweek)

On Iron Rod and Liahona Temperaments

Richard D. Poll, “What the Gospel Means to People Like Me” (Sermon printed in Dialogue in which he introduces the idea of two LDS temperaments: Iron Rods and Liahonas)

Harold B. Lee, “The Iron Rod” (April 1971 General Conference address in which he seems to directly criticize ideas in the Poll talk: “Do the revelations of God give us a handrail to the kingdom of God, as the Lord’s messenger told Lehi, or merely a compass?”)

Richard D. Poll, “Liahona and Iron Rod Revisited” (Remarks published in Dialogue in 1983 in which Poll assesses the impact of his categories in Mormon discussion, as well as how they seemed to be playing out in the church at that time)

66: Spiritual Secrets of Addiction Recovery

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 06:32:46 +0000

As the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous discovered, something profound can happen when addicts invite God or a power higher than themselves into their lives and efforts at recovery. Through understanding addiction as a symptom of spiritual “dis-ease” and addressing recovery as an attempt to restore a healthy balance between one’s own ego and desires to run things versus the will and wisdom of God or the universe, AA and its Big Book and Twelve-Step offspring programs have saved countless lives. What are the spiritual principles at work in addiction recovery? Do addicts at their wits’ and wills’ ends discover secrets that are also at work in others’ vital spiritual lives? Can non-addicts increase their own spirituality from interacting with recovering addicts and applying Big Book insights in their own spiritual journeys? However one ends up viewing the answers to these question, it’s undeniable that powerful things happen in addiction recovery work that are worth close examination (along, of course, with proper celebration of the returns to joy in recovering addicts’ lives).

In this podcast, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and recovering addicts “Keith,” “John,” and “Bill” discuss addiction and recovery, AA’s Twelve Steps, and the spiritual powers that seem to be unleashed in the interaction of addicts sharing and teaching another. They also introduce and discuss the LDS Church’s Addition and Recovery Program (ARP) that is modeled after AA’s Twelve Steps but which has also adapted–in some ways successfully but still needing additional development–its approach to better match Mormon gospel teachings and to handle special concerns that arise when recovery programs become affiliated with institutions. The panel also discusses the special challenges Latter-day Saints often face in recovery, but also how the unprecedented levels of honesty and disclosure that operate in recovery work can help build even stronger LDS communities.

Minute for minute, and right up to the very end, this is one of the most insight-packed of all Mormon Matters episodes. We hope you will enjoy it, learn from and feel blessed by it, and then share it. Oh yeah, and also discuss it in the comments section below!

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Links to Resources, Books, and Discussions
(Listeners, please suggest others!)

LDS Church’s “Addiction and Recovery Program”

Heart t’ Heart (independently run 12-Step program geared primarily toward Latter-day Saints)

“The Spirituality of Addiction and Recovery” episode of the Speaking of Faith podcast (now On Being)

The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous (Amazon link)

The Spirituality of Imperfection: Modern Wisdom from Classic Stories, by Ernest Kurtz and Katherine Ketcha (Amazon link)

He Did Deliver Me from Bondage, by Colleen C. Harrison (Amazon link)

Willpower Is Not Enough: Why We Don’t Succeed at Change, by A. Dean Byrd (Amazon link)

65: LDS Views on Christ’s Second Coming and the End Times

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:00:09 +0000

Elder Boyd K. Packer’s October 2011 General Conference encouragement to youth to not fear that because of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ they will not have a chance to have a full life, including having children and grandchildren, is the latest in what seems to be a trend among LDS leaders to de-emphasize the kind of apocalyptic thinking that was prevalent among Mormons even just a few decades ago. Yet class discussions during recent lessons in the priesthood and Relief Society manuals on the signs of the Second Coming, what will happen upon Christ’s return, the Millennium, and the Final Judgment all reveal that “we are living in the end times” thinking is still very much alive and well within Mormonism, with those doing most of the talking in classes still seeming to believe Christ’s coming and world’s end is immanent–perhaps even within their own lifetimes. Clearly it’s time for major discussions on this subject!

What are the scriptural roots of the Christian expectation of Christ’s second coming? How do these match up with apocalyptic visions from other traditions? What unique ideas do Mormons bring to end-times thinking? Is the violent vision of the world’s end set in stone, or are there chances for human beings to change the outcome? If someone feels like she or he cannot believe scripture and teachings about the Second Coming literally, are there still positive framings about preparing for the end of the world or the idea of Christ coming that they might be able to adopt?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jared Anderson, Charles Randall Paul, and Kenton Karrasch dive deep into all of these issues and many others! It’s a big subject and a long-ish episode, but the recording still only scratches the surface. We hope you will listen and then contribute to a vibrant additional discussion in the comments section below!

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Additional Reading:

“Watching,” by V. Stanley Benfell III. (This is the essay Dan refers to in the podcast relating to watching for Christ in others.)

64: Mormons and Prayer

Dan Wotherspoon — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:02:39 +0000

Mormons pray . . . a lot! Latter-day Saints are encouraged to have daily (twice or more) personal prayer, family prayer including children (in addition to parents praying together), prayers before meals, prayers for safety, and even other injunctions to “pray without ceasing.” Mormon meetings and classes all open and close with prayer, and Mormons offer scripted prayers when blessing the emblems of the sacrament, when baptizing, and performing certain temple ordinances, and they offer blessings and other types of prayers in language that isn’t scripted but that must include certain elements. LDS rhetoric also often prescribes certain language forms or prayer while in particular physical postures as most appropriate for prayer. Clearly, Mormons are a prayerful people. But how much do Mormons really practice prayer? Are they encouraged to see prayer as a deep spiritual praxis? Certainly the scriptures and occasional messages from Church leaders point in this direction, but how many Latter-day Saints truly move much beyond a type of prayer practice that typified what they learned in their childhood and teenage years and into much more mature relationship with God that might even include protest, lament, confessions of disbelief, as well as the joyousness of deeper exposure and vulnerability, and coming into friendship with God and truly seeing themselves the way God sees them?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Joanna Brooks, Tresa Edmunds, and Jacob Baker examine Mormon prayer as it functions in LDS communal life and typical praxis, as well as discuss perspectives and practices they have incorporated or have been made aware of in their own journeys or wider reading and experiences. At several points in the podcast, they also pay particular attention to prayer as a possible praxis even for those undergoing faith crisis or transition, and who may have lost confidence in previous views of what God is like–or even if there is a God.

After listening, we very much hope you’ll share your experiences and perspectives in the comment section below.

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Links to things of possible interest:

Jacob Baker’s blog post about getting to know God and God getting to know us that was on the show.

Tresa Edmund’s blog post about being “prayed over” by her son’s therapists

“Approaching Prayer” episode of Speaking of Faith (now On Being). The whole show is wonderful, but the Roberta Bondi section mentioned by Dan during the podcast begins about 36 minutes in.

63: Oh Say, What Is Truth?

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 06:07:08 +0000

We Mormons have heard it countless times: “I know the Church is true?” But what does this mean? Heck, even more basic, what does “true” mean? In this podcast, host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Joanna Brooks, Dennis Potter, and Rhett Tenney take a deep dive into these questions. Explorations include overviews of major philosophical approaches, especially those most relevant to thinking about religious beliefs and practices, the shifts in thinking that in the past century have revolutionized thought about the nature of truth, including strong recognition of the way we all inhabit discourses that shape our views of truth and the world, and theories from sociology about how social rewards and group cohesion rituals work to make our choices about what we believe and hold to be true anything but purely rational or involving us simply “following the evidence.” The participants also all reflect on the way they view Mormonism and their own spiritual journeys (for one of them, out of the church) understanding what they do about the many factors that feed into this what-used-to-seem-so-simple matter of “truth.”

After listening, we hope you will join the discussion below!

62: A Christmas Primer: Exploring the Nativity in Scripture, Legend, History, and Hearts

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:35:23 +0000

This podcast episode examines the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—but what do the scriptures actually say and not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story? How do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What motives are behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they do? What about the Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about “no room at the inn,” the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with “questionable” sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the “Immaculate Conception” and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of “Christmas” (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, meshings of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of “ghost story” tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal? And much more!

Perhaps most important, however, is the discussion of how and why the panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas, joyfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated, and experience this season as spiritually enriching.

This is an episode not to be missed! Please join in the conversation below!

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Some links of possible interest:

Sunstone magazine article by Stephen E. Thompson, “Away in a Manger,” exploring the differences between Matthew’s and Luke’s accounts, and giving a possible constructive framing of how to view these stories as still worth celebrating. (Mentioned by Dan a few times during the podcast.)

Kevin Barney blogpost at By Common Consent that outlines major considerations in the “when was Christ born?” line of inquiry. (Also mentioned by Dan during the podcast.)

61: Mormon Views on Satan and the Origins of Evil

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 05:07:44 +0000

Most religions, cultures, and philosophies contain stories or theories about human evil and its origins. Some, including Mormonism, place a major portion of the blame for moral evil on a fallen angel, Lucifer, and his followers, who after being ousted from heaven become devils whose only desire is to thwart God’s plans and make loathsome humans as miserable as possible. What many Latter-day Saints don’t realize is how much their version of the war in heaven and the role of Lucifer, who becomes known as Satan, differs from that of wider Christianity, Islam, and the hints of the story found in the Bible. What are these other stories? What are the major differences between the narratives? How much has the story or emphases changed within Mormonism since its earlier periods? Does Mormon theology contain starting points and theological angles for viewing the Satan story powerfully as mythos rather than literal history? Has a shift already begun in how most Latter-day Saints view the sources of temptation they face in their own lives? What principles within Mormon theology might an LDS person draw on to create room for also honoring insights about the nature of evil and human propensities toward sin from eastern religions or certain psychological schools?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, along with panelists Boyd Petersen, Charles Randall Paul, and Chelsea Shields Strayer explore all these questions, plus engage in a fascinating peek at how evil is seen in some non-Western cultures, including West Africa (where Chelsea has been doing anthropological fieldwork for the past decade) and its ideas of that very real powers that work in witchcraft, spirit possession, cursing, and other “occult” practices? Does Mormonism have theological explanations for these forces and the various ways they are manifest? Do West African Mormons still hold on to some of these ideas even after their conversion?

This episode is another longish one, but we believe it contains much that will be of great interest to listeners. There is probably a higher ratio of speculative ideas to standard ones in this episode than in almost all others, so be warned in advance! Still, we hope you will jump in, swim around with us in these interesting seas, and then join in the conversation yourself in the comments section below!

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Readings of interest:

Link to Chelsea Shields Strayer essay, “Are All Children Children of God?” that is discussed in this episode from the Summer 2011 issue of Exponent II.

60: Matters of Integrity

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 02:58:44 +0000

Latter-day Saints who experience a faith crisis are thrust into unfamiliar and difficult territory, where they are forced to face many issues, including the decision to remain actively engaged with Mormonism, to step away for a while in an effort to regain their bearings and perhaps live into new perspectives or find fresh ways to engage the church, or to sever ties altogether. At the heart of many of these difficult decisions is a strong desire on the part of the person in crisis to live a life of integrity, to act in harmony with their ideals, highest values, and understandings of what is and isn’t true.

In this Mormon Matters episode, host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Joanna Brooks, Brian Johnston, and Jeff Green examine in depth issues described by questions such as: “How do I live with integrity when I no longer believe the truth claims the way I used to, or when my experiences at church no longer uplift me or even cause me great pain, or when the majority of church members hold such radically different views from me?” In the discussion, the panelists all take great care to honor the many differences in experiences, temperaments, life circumstances, and understandings about the nature of truth (and especially Mormon truth claims) that can lead different people, all with equal integrity, to choose different paths. If there is a bias, it is toward the importance of really taking one’s time before making these decisions or enacting one’s decisions in ways that might burn bridges or cause irrevocable harm to relationships.

This episode is significantly longer than most Mormon Matters, but it’s a topic that we’ve only just scratched the surface of. After listening, please help us dive even deeper by participating in the discussion below.

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Of possible interest:

Here are the lines from Walt Whitman’s poem, “Song of Myself,” that Jeff mentions in the podcast:

You shall possess the good of the earth and sun, (there are millions
of suns left,)
You shall no longer take things at second or third hand, nor look
through the eyes of the dead, nor feed on the spectres in books,
You shall not look through my eyes either, nor take things from me,
You shall listen to all sides and filter them from your self.

Link to the entire poem.
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Link to “How to Stay in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after a Major Challenge to Your Faith” mentioned by Brian in the podcast.

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Link to J. Bonner Ritchie’s classic article, “The Institutional Church and the Individual,” mentioned by Dan in the podcast.

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Link to Dan’s April 2002 Sunstone magazine editorial in which he describes his personal encounter with James Fowler, author of Stages of Faith and other books, on an airplane and how that led to perspectives that helped him greatly in negotiating his own faith crisis. (NOTE: The link takes you to a pdf file that contains the editorial mentioned above, but the essay itself begins on page 4 of that file.)

59: Mormon Messages about Priesthood, Fatherhood, Patriarchy, and More

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 04:47:58 +0000

In August, Mormon Matters hosted an important and fascinating discussion about messages Mormon women hear about their divine roles as mothers. What messages do Mormon men hear? Are they equally challenged to consider fatherhood their most important role, or do priesthood duties and responsibilities take first priority? Have messages about men’s roles evolved over the past several decades? In what ways does Mormonism support the institutions of power and attitudes about gender difference and roles of patriarchal societies? Why isn’t there as robust a discussion within Mormonism geared toward teasing apart cultural constructs from gospel truths as we see in many other Christian traditions that are opening clergy roles for women? Are Mormon men still urged to be “patriarchs” in their homes, and to “preside” over their families? Is there any way to be a patriarch and still have a marriage based on true equality? Can patriarchy ever be “benevolent”?

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Scott Heffernan, Stephen Carter, and Adam Jacobsen discuss these and many other questions. What it’s like to be Mormon men in this day and times of major transitions? You’ll have to listen in. We also hope you’ll then chime in below!

58: Obedience and Agency

Dan Wotherspoon — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:58:06 +0000

Mormonism teaches the importance of being obedient to God and God’s will while at the same time emphasizing the bedrock fact of our individual agency. The gospel ideal is that we fully and knowingly submit our will to that of God, and in this way be obedient while still acting entirely out of our own agency. Of course, life is much messier than this, and the ideal hides from us a bit. How can we truly know God’s will and when we’re hearing God’s voice and not our own? Because of difficulties like this, one of the most common ways that messages about obedience and agency become complicated comes in the form of exhortations to listen to LDS prophets, apostles, and other leaders who are more practiced in discerning the will of God, and to then “obey” their counsel. Before long, the ideal of our growing into our own trust in our own relationship with God fades into the background, and obeying leaders, following gospel programs, performing particular actions move to the forefront. The ideal is always there, but sometimes the message that we are to be growing in confidence in our own relationship with God becomes harder to pick out amid the noise.

In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Chelsea Fife, and Michael Fife discuss these tensions, their possible origins, and the reasons for the ascendance of “obedience to leaders” rhetoric and a focus on performing activities that yield more easily measurable results. They also explore the call to deeper discipleship and the understandings and pathways that help keep the ideal of free agents freely submitting to the divine will based upon their own relationship with God. The primary questions underlying the discussion are: What is spiritual maturity? How can we work toward it and come to live joyfully in a church culture that doesn’t always encourage us to grow too far beyond “I Am a Child of God”? How do we become “adults” of God? How do we remember always that the true call is not to remain children but to mature to the point where we are ready to become brides of Christ, full partners with God, partakers of the eternal life?

After listening, please share your ideas in the comments section below!

57: LDS Young Single Adult Experiences Revisited

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 02:13:50 +0000

Mormon Matters episode 31 featured a panel discussion about the LDS Church’s struggle to meet the needs of many of its young single adults and some of the possible reasons why. Episode 33 then highlighted in a more personal way through first-hand accounts from two people in this group some of the tensions they face as singles in Mormon culture as well as in their own spiritual journeys. This episode revisits the LDS young single adult experience with new panelists—Kayela Seegmiller, Derrick Clements, and Megan Sanborn Jones—who each experience the gospel and both the blessings and the tensions of being active, committed, single, and young Latter-day Saints in ways not explored in depth in the earlier episodes. Fresh and mature insights (as well as great laughs) abound in this terrific episode!

Please listen and then share your own stories and insights in the comments section below!

56: Mormonism and Wealth

Dan Wotherspoon — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:01:24 +0000

The recent Occupy Wall Street movement and its ongoing spread, along with the cover essay in the October 2011 issue of Harper’s that draws what the author of that piece sees as a direct link between Mormonism’s economic ideals and its rise in influence in society at large, and certain factions of the Republican Party in particular, provide excellent springboards for a great discussion about LDS views about wealth, prosperity, business principles, economic systems, cultural attitudes that sometimes suggest a connection between righteousness and personal prosperity, and much more. And that’s what this podcast episode contains.

In dialogue with each other and Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon, panelists Joanna Brooks, Todd Decker, and Jason Brown provide a far-ranging discussion that draws important distinctions between an LDS culture that seems to writers, pundits, and many outsiders to be quite like the picture painted by the Harper’s article (which is, of course, accurate in certain ways) and the long history of Mormon theological teachings about the dangers that are inherent in wealth and prosperity and divorcing oneself from the labor of one’s own hands, the sacredness of community, and economic systems that forefront care for one another. These are difficult issues, and this podcast is full of terrific observations, both light and serious, and wonderful invitations for deep self-examination. Can and will those who find themselves recognizing that they a sympathy with the Occupy movement or have other hesitations about capitalism as it operates today do more than just talk?

Please listen. We welcome your comments below!

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Links to sites recommended by podcast panelist Jason Brown:

The Corporation–a documentary in several parts available through YouTube

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Gadianton, by Eric Samuelsen. An incredible and powerful story and critique of the idea that something can be “just business,” that corporate decisions don’t have high personal costs. It wrestles with a Mormon-led computer firm that chooses to downsize in order to increase company profits. It is set in St. George, Utah, and the action of the play is interspersed with characters reminiscing on the atomic explosions in the Nevada desert and the radiation fallout that affects families in the area still today–government decisions that didn’t adequately count personal costs. And you simply have to experience for yourself all that comes from the inclusion of Gadianton!, a play within the play (that leads to its title character coming to life and whispering in the ear of one of the main play’s protagonists). Highly recommend! Potentially one of the best hours of reading you’ll ever spend.

Note: This file contains the play, as well as a short follow-up essay by the author about the controversies that surrounded Gadianton when it was produced at BYU. Sunstone also somehow saved the file in the same grouping as a commentary on Mormon culture that is also excellent but not related to the play. So if you want to go directly to the play, it begins on page 6 of this file.

55: Cult Claims and the Media

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 00:13:07 +0000

This week’s Mormon Matters episode discusses two stories from the past week: (1) The dust-up over and media slam-down of remarks made by Texas mega-church pastor and Governor Rick Perry supporter Robert Jeffress that Mormonism is a cult—does this episode represent a real shift in the tenor of the “Mormon Moment”?; and (2) the news that the LDS Church has recently sent out a survey that aims to understand how its members interact with today’s social media and view particular blogs, bloggers, and reporters—including two of this episode’s panel members, Joanna Brooks and McKay Coppins. The episode’s third panelist, Morris Thurston, is one of those who was surveyed. The result of this coming together is a dynamic conversation full of passion (don’t let Joanna Brooks hear you think you’re in any way playing fair when you speak of Mormonism as a cult!) and terrific insights into current national discussion of Mormonism as well as some of the things the LDS Church might be hoping to learn from their surveys.

Please listen and join in the discussion in the comments section!

54: The Atonement in Mormon Thought and Experience

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 05 Oct 2011 03:36:45 +0000

The central claim of Christianity is that all human beings are “fallen,” held captive by sin, or are in some other way in a dire circumstance that can only be overcome through God’s aid, which comes through faith in the infinite love and sacrifice of God’s own son, Jesus Christ. According to the Christian tradition, this is the central truth of the human condition, and it is only through what has been labeled the Atonement of Jesus Christ that there is a way out. Throughout history, many Christians have celebrated their feelings of being rescued from the grasp of sin, selfishness, and aimless searching for purpose via the Atonement, and they claim their transformed lives are living testaments to this saving act of God’s grace. Still, many—both outsiders and Christians themselves—have paused to ask questions such as: Why is this the only way someone can turn from sin or be made worthy of heaven? What kind of God requires the suffering of an innocent being in order to be willing to forgive humans of their shortcomings? If every sin must be punished, is there even such a thing as genuine “forgiveness”? Many people seem to be able to forgive others for their faults and evil acts who don’t believe in or have never even heard of Jesus Christ, so why can’t God? Many Christians have not only asked such questions, but from the very earliest days following Jesus’s death, they have formulated various theories to answer them and also explain the reasons the Atonement “works.”

In this podcast episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jared Anderson, Brian Johnston, and Tresa Edmunds explore these questions and the historical attempts to answer them and explain the experience of transformation or renewed life through Christ that so many claim, including the panelists themselves. In general, the discussion explores the Atonement from the ideas that first show up in biblical sources and then onto the main Atonement theory categories: ransom, satisfaction, penal substitution, and moral influence. It also gives attention to various angles on the Atonement and Christ’s redeeming work that are emphasized the most in Mormonism, as well as a couple of Atonement models that are unique to it. The panelists then close the discussion with their own views regarding or experiences with the Atonement in their own lives.

This episode is longer than a typical Mormon Matters podcast, but if one is to believe the Atonement is the most important single thing to ever take place in this world, the discussion’s extra length is fitting for its subject (and even far too short)! We hope you will all join in and further the discussion in the comments section below.

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Links to articles/essays of possible interest:

Lorin Hansen Dialogue article that describes the main categories of Atonement theories while suggesting Mormon ideas are closest to the Moral Influence theory.

Eugene England essay on the Atonement, which also suggests a Moral Influence reading. He adds an attempt to do what Moral Influence has had trouble doing, which is to explain why it was “necessary,” how it is that “only Jesus” could effect this change.

J. Clair Batty Sunstone personal essay that shares his journey from confusion over God needing blood and anguish to forgive us to a sense of peace about the Atonement.

Link to an online posting of W. Cleon Skousen’s uniquely Mormon take on why the Atonement requiring Christ’s sacrifice was necessary.

Blake Ostler article outlining his views on how the Atonement works and comparing them to other Mormon theories.

Jared Anderson essay, “Jesus: Savior or Symbol,” mentioned a few times in the podcast. Anderson’s attempt to honor the reality of the experiences with the Atonement many persons have while not necessarily forcing one to see the Atonement as a discreet, literal event.

53: Mormonism and Capital Punishment

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 05:58:04 +0000

The recent execution of Troy Davis brought to the front once more the issue of capital punishment, especially arguments about the very real possibility of executing the wrong person, the unreliability of eye witness accounts, law enforcement pressures for conviction, and the possible brokenness of many of the safeguards that are in place to assure that miscarriages of justice at this ultimate level do not happen. This podcast uses this moment of reflection to discuss Mormon attitudes about the death penalty, and especially what social and theological aspects of Mormonism play into these attitudes. It discusses things such as agency and whether all persons are equally able to freely choose, the dubious doctrine of “blood atonement” that still lingers as a factor in some Mormons’ minds, as well as other LDS concepts and angles. It also discusses the deep spiritual resources some victims’ families are able to access to offer forgiveness to perpetrators.

We hope you will join Mormon Matters host, Dan Wotherspoon, and panelists Ken Driggs (an LDS death penalty lawyer who has worked on some 75 capital punishment cases), Heather Olson-Beal, and Tom Grover for personal stories and important insights pertaining to this very sobering subject that deserves everyone’s careful attention.

After listening, please join in the discussion below!

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Links to articles mentioned in the podcast:

Ken Driggs:

Reflecting on the Death Penalty

Reflections of a Public Defender

Martin Gardner:

Mormonism and Capital Punishment: A Doctrinal Perspective, Past and Present

52: Rebirth of the Student Review

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 03:57:05 +0000

From 1986 to 1997, the Student Review enjoyed a wonderful run as BYU’s independent student newspaper, which at its peak published weekly and reached a circulation of 10,000. During its years, SR featured a cross section of news reporting, essays, and wonderful humor and satire, with some of its stories resulting in changes to campus policy, as well as impacting life in the wider community and state. As a result of some of its coverage of difficult issues, the publication occasionally rankled school administrators, sometimes even triggering official efforts to shut it down.

A team of current BYU students has now resurrected the Student Review, printing and distributing its first issue on September 19^th. In this episode, we meet the SR’s new editor, Craig Mangum, and learn about his team’s plans for the newspaper. We also hear about the newspaper’s founding and history from other panelists, Bill Kelly, SR’s first publisher, and former editors Joanna Brooks and Matt Workman. But mostly we get a chance to hear tales of a wonderful slice of BYU life as experienced by some of the school’s best and brightest of the past and present. WARNING: This podcast contains stories of a credit card of mythological status, sexual tension, and adventures with security guards and steam tunnels.

To learn more about, read articles from, or find out how you can support the new incarnation of the Student Review, please visit www.thestudentreview.org.

A good history of SR written at the time of its tenth anniversary by Bryan Waterman, a former editor, can be found here.

51: The Dynamics of Guilt and Shame

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:03:54 +0000

Many people–and Latter-day Saints are no exception–
struggle with feelings of “not being enough,” worthlessness, or that they are unlovable by others, God, and themselves. Those who feel this way are caught up in the throes of toxic shame–a distortion and perversion of natural and healthy feelings of “guilt” over wrong choices or healthy types of shame that help moderate the ways we act in public and in interactions with others. The gospel teaches us of our infinite worth and of our Heavenly Parents’ unconditional love for each of us no matter what mistakes we make. So why do we so easily forget these things or stop believing them? How is it that our aspirations to be better persons so often end up weighing us down and distorting our view of ourselves–and instead of helping, end up hurting our growth?

In this podcast episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jennifer Rooney White, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, and John Dehlin discuss feelings of guilt (healthy shame) and toxic shame and attempt to lay bare what causes their confusion in general, and within Mormonism, in particular. They also discuss some of the very positive messages and examples within Mormon scriptures and history for coming to a healthy relationship with ourselves–one that fully recognizes our own inherent divinity and worth while also still fully acknowledging our great capacities for sin and error in ways that will not cause us to pull away from God and our ideals or to fall into destructive patterns.

After listening, we invite you to share your thoughts in the blog discussion below.

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SPECIAL NOTE

Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife will soon be in Salt Lake City to lead two seminars.

The topic for Friday, September 23^rd, is “LDS Women and Sexual Desire.”
The topic for Saturday, September 24^th, is “Enhancing Sexual Intimacy for LDS Couples.”

Click here for more information

50: The Call to Be Peacemakers

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 07 Sep 2011 03:00:29 +0000

The tenth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks provide an important moment for all of us to reflect on life’s most precious things and what we hold in our hearts about family, friends, neighbors, our wider communities, strangers, and those with whom we disagree about what’s most important for the world and how to bring it about. This sacred occasion also provides a good incentive for thinking about what it means to be called by Christ as peacemakers.

In this podcast, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Charles Randall Paul, Liz Shropshire, and James Faulconer reflect upon today’s world a decade past September 2001, as well as the nature of peace itself and what it means to be “at peace.” The discussion then turns to the history of Mormon prophetic discourse as it calls, with varying vigor, church members to be peacemakers, as well as to some of the key scriptural passages, stories, and theological notions that inspire the panelists’ own peacebuilding work.

We trust that you will find this a thoughtful and important discussion at this solemn and reflective moment in time, and we encourage you to join in the conversation in the comments section below.

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Please check out (and donate if so moved!) these two peace building foundations run by two of this episodes’ panelists:

The Shropshire Music Foundation–Teaching Children Peace Through Music

The Foundation for Religious Diplomacy

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Other Mormon-led peacebuilding and humanitarian foundations, and LDS peacemakers, to learn about and support:

Joan Betros. Joan heads up F.U.T.U.R.E. (Families United Toward Universal Respect), which uses the model of Relief Society to get women to connect, support, and help each other in Iraq.

Chad Ford. Chad runs the Intercultural Peacebuilding Certificate program at BYU-Hawaii, and he is also involved with the Arbinger Institute and Peace Players International, which uses basketball and other sports to bring together children and adults from both sides of divided communities together. Chad is helping podcast panelist Charles Randall Paul put on a goodwill match next year in Salt Lake City between the Iranian women’s soccer team and an American equivalent.

Peggy Rogers. Peggy founded and runs the Zambia Scholarship Fund, which provides stipends for teachers and scholarships for Zambian students to attend high school and college and learn to become teachers themselves.

Cecile Pelous. Cecile went to India to help Mother Teresa and ended up starting an orphanage that she still runs in Nepal. Cecile gave up her life as a fashion designer in Paris to go to India, and she is who inspired panelist Liz Shropshire to start looking for a way she could help children affected by war.

Warner Woodworth works tirelessly to bring money and expertise from church members who have it to aid new entrepreneurs in establishing sustainable businesses in South and Central America.

Daniel Peterson runs the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative (METI), which opens important dialogues with Muslims by producing bi-lingual classical Islamic texts that have not previously been translated.

Bill Jackson directs the Intermountain Research and Medical Foundation (formerly the Deseret Foundation), which has operations in Africa, the Philippines, and South and Central America that bring doctors and supplies to train local doctors in procedures that cure and heal thousands.

The Brent and Bonnie Jean Beesley Foundation works to establish elementary schools in rural India.

We invite Mormon Matters listeners to write about other LDS-led peacemaking and humanitarian organizations that we can add to this list.

49: Mormonism’s Messages about Motherhood

Dan Wotherspoon — Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:44:13 +0000

This panel discussion examines the wonderful gifts of Mormonism’s strong emphases and teachings about the divine role of motherhood as well as the external and internal pressures that come with these messages and how they sometimes work against the more basic gospel goal of helping women fully flourish and grow in godlike qualities. In this far-ranging and insight-packed conversation, panelists Chelsea Fife, Chelsea Strayer, and Jennifer Finlayson-Fife all maintain the utmost gratitude for their own role as mothers and for church emphases on motherhood’s many joys while also examining ways we as Latter-day Saints might change some of our messaging about motherhood, especially taking it from its “institutional” status as a static ideal and making it more real for today’s women. They discuss ways to place motherhood more squarely in the context of women’s intrinsic worth and recognize how this value cannot be so fully tied up in motherhood. The period of intense mothering of children through early adulthood occupies a relatively small portion of a woman’s lifespan, so her sense of worth must be centered in something more. Furthermore, since many, many couples struggle with infertility, and many women never marry nor have the opportunity to be a mother, “motherhood” cannot be the end-all, be-all of a woman’s existence, nor the primary way she measures her success, value, or femininity. So while honoring all the good and loving messages about motherhood, how might we bring about important changes to the current conversation? You don’t want to miss this episode!

After listening, please join in the conversation in the comments section below!

48: Mormonism and Evolution

Dan Wotherspoon — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:45:34 +0000

This year marks the one hundredth anniversary of the
controversies over the study and teaching of evolution at Brigham Young University that resulted in the resignations or firing of three of Brigham Young University’s prominent faculty members and a significant blow to the university career of another. This Mormon Matters episode tells key elements in the story of those 1911 events, but it primarily uses them as a launching pad for a tour of the history of LDS views and approaches to evolution from then to now, as well as more specific reflections on the various tensions between Mormon scriptural and doctrinal commitments and the main thrusts of evolutionary theory.

Joining Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon for this episode are philosophy and intellectual history professor James McLachlan, and BYU emeritus and current science professors Duane Jeffery and Steve Peck, all of whom argue that these tensions between Mormonism and evolution are quite minimal, and that Mormonism actually contains many teachings and theological thrusts, including a rich history of viewing scriptural accounts of creation as primarily figurative, that are extremely accommodating to evolution—far more so than those of many other traditions that begin with God creating everything ex nihilo (out of nothing) and being in full control of everything.

We know that you’ll very much enjoy learning the history of Mormonism in its interactions with evolutionary science at BYU and beyond, as well as listening in on this far-ranging and insightful discussion about the science and religion interface within Mormonism and the broader world. After listening, we hope you’ll join in the conversation by commenting below!

Links to additional readings or blogs:

Gary James Bergera, “The 1911 Evolution Controversy at Brigham Young University,” (from the volume, Search for Harmony: Essays on Science and Mormonism, eds. Gene A. Sessions and Craig J. Oberg, Signature Books, 1993).

James M. McLachlan, “W.H. Chamberlin and the Quest for a Mormon Theology,” Dialogue 29, no. 4 (Winter 1996)

Duane E. Jeffery, “Seers, Savants, and Evolution: The Uncomfortable Interface,” Dialogue 34, no. 1 (Spring 2001). This is an updated version of the original article, which was published in Dialogue 8, no. 3/4 (Autumn/Winter 1974).

Steven L. Peck, “Crawling Out of the Primordial Soup: A Step toward the Emergence of an LDS Theology Compatible with Organic Evolution,” Dialogue 43, no. 1 (Spring 2010). Because it is so recent, this article is not viewable online except to current Dialogue subscribers. However, the issue is available for purchase online.

Steve Peck’s blog, “The Mormon Organon: A BYU Biology Professor Looks at Science and the LDS Faith”

Essay by Steve Peck, “Why Mormons Should Embrace Evolution.” (Posted as a guest blogger at Jana Riess’s blog, Flunking Sainthood.)

Link to the papers or slides from the session on Mormonism and Evolution at the 2011 conference of the International Society for the History, Philosophy, and Social Studies of Biology, held at the University of Utah, 11-14 July 2011. This session featured this podcast’s three panelists, plus David H. Bailey, who presented: “Creationism and Intelligent Design: False Friends”

William E. Evenson and Duane E. Jeffery, eds., Mormonism and Evolution: The Authoritative LDS Statements. Link to book available for purchase at Greg Kofford books

Howard C. Stutz, “Let the Earth Bring Forth: Evolution and Scripture,” with a foreword by Duane Jeffrey. Link to book available for purchase at Greg Kofford books

47: When Worldviews Go Haywire: Breivik, Jeffs, and the Religion/Mental Health Matrix

Dan Wotherspoon — Tue, 16 Aug 2011 22:54:37 +0000

The recent tragedy in Oslo and the Warren Jeffs trial provide two recent examples that remind us of the way various personality traits and/or mental issues coupled with isolation and the refusal to allow one’s own ideas to be challenged can lead to horrific acts of violence and depravity that the perpetrators claim to view as righteous. In this podcast, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Joanna Brooks and Natasha Helfer Parker examine various angles into how distorted worldviews like these take hold, the influence of nature and nurture (including religious factors), as well as some of the things we might learn from such extreme visions about how to achieve balance in our own ways of seeing the world and our place within it.

We hope that after listening you’ll contribute to a great discussion in the comments section below!