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	<title>Mormon Matters &#187; Jesus Christ</title>
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	<description>A weekly podcast exploring Mormon culture and current events.</description>
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		<title>Mormon Matters</title>
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	<itunes:subtitle>A weekly podcast exploring Mormon current events, pop culture, politics and spirituality</itunes:subtitle>
	<itunes:summary>A weekly podcast exploring Mormon current events, pop culture, politics and spirituality</itunes:summary>
	<itunes:keywords>mormon, lds</itunes:keywords>
	<itunes:category text="Religion &#38; Spirituality">
		<itunes:category text="Christianity" />
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		<title>65: LDS Views on Christ’s Second Coming and the End Times</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/12/20/65-lds-views-on-christ%e2%80%99s-second-coming-and-the-end-times/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/12/20/65-lds-views-on-christ%e2%80%99s-second-coming-and-the-end-times/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wotherspoon</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[apocalypse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[End of the World]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Independence (MO)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Millennium]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Jerusalem]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rapture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Resurrection]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[second coming]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=13529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Elder Boyd K. Packer’s October 2011 General Conference encouragement to youth to not fear that because of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ they will not have a chance to have a full life, including having children and grandchildren, is the latest in what seems to be a trend among LDS leaders to de-emphasize the kind of apocalyptic thinking that was prevalent among Mormons even just a few decades ago. Yet class discussions during recent lessons in the priesthood and Relief Society manuals on the signs of the Second Coming, what will happen upon Christ’s return, the Millennium, and the Final Judgment all reveal that &#8220;we are living in the end times&#8221; thinking is still very much alive and well within Mormonism, with those doing most of the talking in classes still seeming to believe Christ’s coming and world’s end is immanent&#8211;perhaps even within their own lifetimes. Clearly it’s time for major discussions on this subject! What are the scriptural roots of the Christian expectation of Christ’s second coming? How do these match up with apocalyptic visions from other traditions? What unique ideas do Mormons bring to end-times thinking? Is the violent vision of the world’s end set in stone, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Second-Coming.jpg"><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-13530" title="Second Coming" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Second-Coming-233x300.jpg" alt="" width="233" height="300" /></a>Elder Boyd K. Packer’s October 2011 General Conference encouragement to youth to not fear that because of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ they will not have a chance to have a full life, including having children and grandchildren, is the latest in what seems to be a trend among LDS leaders to de-emphasize the kind of apocalyptic thinking that was prevalent among Mormons even just a few decades ago. Yet class discussions during recent lessons in the priesthood and Relief Society manuals on the signs of the Second Coming, what will happen upon Christ’s return, the Millennium, and the Final Judgment all reveal that &#8220;we are living in the end times&#8221; thinking is still very much alive and well within Mormonism, with those doing most of the talking in classes still seeming to believe Christ’s coming and world’s end is immanent&#8211;perhaps even within their own lifetimes. Clearly it’s time for major discussions on this subject!</p>
<p>What are the scriptural roots of the Christian expectation of Christ’s second coming? How do these match up with apocalyptic visions from other traditions? What unique ideas do Mormons bring to end-times thinking? Is the violent vision of the world’s end set in stone, or are there chances for human beings to change the outcome? If someone feels like she or he cannot believe scripture and teachings about the Second Coming literally, are there still positive framings about preparing for the end of the world or the idea of Christ coming that they might be able to adopt?</p>
<p>In this episode, Mormon Matters host <strong>Dan Wotherspoon</strong> and panelists <strong>Jared Anderson</strong>, <strong>Charles Randall Paul</strong>, and <strong>Kenton Karrasch</strong> dive deep into all of these issues and many others! It’s a big subject and a long-ish episode, but the recording still only scratches the surface. We hope you will listen and then contribute to a vibrant additional discussion in the comments section below!</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Additional Reading:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V26N03_153.pdf">&#8220;Watching,&#8221; by V. Stanley Benfell III</a>. (This is the essay Dan refers to in the podcast relating to watching for Christ in others.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/12/20/65-lds-views-on-christ%e2%80%99s-second-coming-and-the-end-times/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>28</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://mormonmatters.org/podcast/MormonMatters-065.mp3" length="72076730" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>2:29:57</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Elder Boyd K. Packer’s October 2011 General Conference encouragement to youth to not fear that because of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ they will not have a chance to have a full life, including having children and grandchildren, is the latest i[...]</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Elder Boyd K. Packer’s October 2011 General Conference encouragement to youth to not fear that because of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ they will not have a chance to have a full life, including having children and grandchildren, is the latest in what seems to be a trend among LDS leaders to de-emphasize the kind of apocalyptic thinking that was prevalent among Mormons even just a few decades ago. Yet class discussions during recent lessons in the priesthood and Relief Society manuals on the signs of the Second Coming, what will happen upon Christ’s return, the Millennium, and the Final Judgment all reveal that &#8220;we are living in the end times&#8221; thinking is still very much alive and well within Mormonism, with those doing most of the talking in classes still seeming to believe Christ’s coming and world’s end is immanent&#8211;perhaps even within their own lifetimes. Clearly it’s time for major discussions on this subject!
What are the scriptural roots of the Christian expectation of Christ’s second coming? How do these match up with apocalyptic visions from other traditions? What unique ideas do Mormons bring to end-times thinking? Is the violent vision of the world’s end set in stone, or are there chances for human beings to change the outcome? If someone feels like she or he cannot believe scripture and teachings about the Second Coming literally, are there still positive framings about preparing for the end of the world or the idea of Christ coming that they might be able to adopt?
In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jared Anderson, Charles Randall Paul, and Kenton Karrasch dive deep into all of these issues and many others! It’s a big subject and a long-ish episode, but the recording still only scratches the surface. We hope you will listen and then contribute to a vibrant additional discussion in the comments section below!
&#8212;&#8212;-
Additional Reading:
&#8220;Watching,&#8221; by V. Stanley Benfell III. (This is the essay Dan refers to in the podcast relating to watching for Christ in others.)</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Mormon, podcast</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>Mormon Matters</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>62: A Christmas Primer: Exploring the Nativity in Scripture, Legend, History, and Hearts</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/11/29/62-a-christmas-primer-exploring-the-nativity-in-scripture-legend-history-and-hearts/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/11/29/62-a-christmas-primer-exploring-the-nativity-in-scripture-legend-history-and-hearts/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wotherspoon</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[December 25th]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Magi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Manger]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Shepherds]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Star of Bethlehem]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=13475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This podcast episode examines the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—but what do the scriptures actually say and not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story? How do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What motives are behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they do? What about the Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about &#8220;no room at the inn,&#8221; the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th? In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with &#8220;questionable&#8221; sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the &#8220;Immaculate Conception&#8221; and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Magi.jpg"><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-13477" title="Magi" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Magi-300x230.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="230" /></a>This podcast episode examines the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—but what do the scriptures actually say and not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story? How do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What motives are behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they do? What about the Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about &#8220;no room at the inn,&#8221; the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?</p>
<p>In this episode, Mormon Matters host <strong>Dan Wotherspoo</strong>n and panelists <strong>Kristine Haglund</strong>, <strong>Jared Anderson</strong>, and <strong>Zina Petersen</strong> explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with &#8220;questionable&#8221; sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the &#8220;Immaculate Conception&#8221; and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of &#8220;Christmas&#8221; (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, meshings of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of &#8220;ghost story&#8221; tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal? And much more!</p>
<p>Perhaps most important, however, is the discussion of how and why the panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas, joyfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated, and experience this season as spiritually enriching.</p>
<p>This is an episode not to be missed! Please join in the conversation below!</p>
<p>_____</p>
<p>Some links of possible interest:</p>
<p>Sunstone magazine <a href="https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/098-67-70.pdf  ">article</a> by Stephen E. Thompson, &#8220;Away in a Manger,&#8221; exploring the differences between Matthew&#8217;s and Luke&#8217;s accounts, and giving a possible constructive framing of how to view these stories as still worth celebrating. (Mentioned by Dan a few times during the podcast.)</p>
<p>Kevin Barney <a href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/12/19/when-was-jesus-born/ ">blogpost</a> at By Common Consent that outlines major considerations in the &#8220;when was Christ born?&#8221; line of inquiry. (Also mentioned by Dan during the podcast.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/11/29/62-a-christmas-primer-exploring-the-nativity-in-scripture-legend-history-and-hearts/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>41</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://mormonmatters.org/podcast/MormonMatters-062.mp3" length="71824491" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>2:29:25</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>This podcast episode examines the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—but what do the scriptures actually say and not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story? How do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even[...]</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>This podcast episode examines the Christmas story as it traditionally gets told—but what do the scriptures actually say and not say about the birth of Christ and all the pieces of this familiar story? How do the Matthew and Luke accounts differ—even irreconcilably? What motives are behind the Gospel writers’ decisions to shape the stories the way they do? What about the Jesus’s place of birth and the reason the family was in Bethlehem (if they were)? Was there a great tax and registration? What about &#8220;no room at the inn,&#8221; the manger, the star, the magi, the story of Herod killing all male infants under two years old? How did Christmas come to be held on December 25th?
In this episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Kristine Haglund, Jared Anderson, and Zina Petersen explore all these questions plus lead a fascinating tour into other parts of the Christmas story. Why are only five women mentioned in the Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’s lineage—and why are the ones listed all women with &#8220;questionable&#8221; sexual pasts? What are the Twelve Days of Christmas? What is the &#8220;Immaculate Conception&#8221; and how does it affect theology about Mary and ideas about the Eucharist and other religious devotions? How has pagan history and ideas folded into the history of &#8220;Christmas&#8221; (not Jesus’s birth but the celebration of it)? The panel discusses solstices and equinoxes, meshings of calendaring systems, the link between carnivals and holy days, shepherds’ presents to the Christ child, and even a longstanding tradition of &#8220;ghost story&#8221; tie-ins with Christmas that Charles Dickens resurrected. Why was there a period of time in which Christmas was illegal? And much more!
Perhaps most important, however, is the discussion of how and why the panelists and many other Christians throughout history, knowing all that they know about what likely is and is not factual about traditional accounts, still celebrate Christmas, joyfully sing carols alongside those for whom the stories are less complicated, and experience this season as spiritually enriching.
This is an episode not to be missed! Please join in the conversation below!
_____
Some links of possible interest:
Sunstone magazine article by Stephen E. Thompson, &#8220;Away in a Manger,&#8221; exploring the differences between Matthew&#8217;s and Luke&#8217;s accounts, and giving a possible constructive framing of how to view these stories as still worth celebrating. (Mentioned by Dan a few times during the podcast.)
Kevin Barney blogpost at By Common Consent that outlines major considerations in the &#8220;when was Christ born?&#8221; line of inquiry. (Also mentioned by Dan during the podcast.)</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>podcast</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>Mormon Matters</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>54: The Atonement in Mormon Thought and Experience</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/10/04/54-the-atonement-in-mormon-thought-and-experience/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/10/04/54-the-atonement-in-mormon-thought-and-experience/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 03:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wotherspoon</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Forgiveness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grace]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[justice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mercy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=13372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The central claim of Christianity is that all human beings are “fallen,” held captive by sin, or are in some other way in a dire circumstance that can only be overcome through God’s aid, which comes through faith in the infinite love and sacrifice of God’s own son, Jesus Christ. According to the Christian tradition, this is the central truth of the human condition, and it is only through what has been labeled the Atonement of Jesus Christ that there is a way out. Throughout history, many Christians have celebrated their feelings of being rescued from the grasp of sin, selfishness, and aimless searching for purpose via the Atonement, and they claim their transformed lives are living testaments to this saving act of God’s grace. Still, many—both outsiders and Christians themselves—have paused to ask questions such as: Why is this the only way someone can turn from sin or be made worthy of heaven? What kind of God requires the suffering of an innocent being in order to be willing to forgive humans of their shortcomings? If every sin must be punished, is there even such a thing as genuine “forgiveness”? Many people seem to be able to forgive others for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The central claim of Christianity is that all human <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Getsemani1.jpg"><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-13376" title="Getsemani" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Getsemani1-212x300.jpg" alt="" width="212" height="300" /></a>beings are “fallen,” held captive by sin, or are in some other way in a dire circumstance that can only be overcome through God’s aid, which comes through faith in the infinite love and sacrifice of God’s own son, Jesus Christ. According to the Christian tradition, this is the central truth of the human condition, and it is only through what has been labeled the Atonement of Jesus Christ that there is a way out. Throughout history, many Christians have celebrated their feelings of being rescued from the grasp of sin, selfishness, and aimless searching for purpose via the Atonement, and they claim their transformed lives are living testaments to this saving act of God’s grace. Still, many—both outsiders and Christians themselves—have paused to ask questions such as: Why is this the only way someone can turn from sin or be made worthy of heaven? What kind of God requires the suffering of an innocent being in order to be willing to forgive humans of their shortcomings? If every sin must be punished, is there even such a thing as genuine “forgiveness”? Many people seem to be able to forgive others for their faults and evil acts who don’t believe in or have never even heard of Jesus Christ, so why can’t God? Many Christians have not only asked such questions, but from the very earliest days following Jesus’s death, they have formulated various theories to answer them and also explain the reasons the Atonement “works.”</p>
<p>In this podcast episode, Mormon Matters host <strong>Dan Wotherspoon</strong> and panelists <strong>Jared Anderson</strong>, <strong>Brian Johnston</strong>, and <strong>Tresa Edmund</strong>s explore these questions and the historical attempts to answer them and explain the experience of transformation or renewed life through Christ that so many claim, including the panelists themselves. In general, the discussion explores the Atonement from the ideas that first show up in biblical sources and then onto the main Atonement theory categories: ransom, satisfaction, penal substitution, and moral influence. It also gives attention to various angles on the Atonement and Christ’s redeeming work that are emphasized the most in Mormonism, as well as a couple of Atonement models that are unique to it. The panelists then close the discussion with their own views regarding or experiences with the Atonement in their own lives.</p>
<p>This episode is longer than a typical Mormon Matters podcast, but if one is to believe the Atonement is the most important single thing to ever take place in this world, the discussion’s extra length is fitting for its subject (and even far too short)! We hope you will all join in and further the discussion in the comments section below.</p>
<p>_____</p>
<p>Links to articles/essays of possible interest:</p>
<p><a href="https://dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V27N01_207.pdf">Lorin Hansen Dialogue article</a> that describes the main categories of Atonement theories while suggesting Mormon ideas are closest to the Moral Influence theory.</p>
<p><a href="http://eugeneengland.org/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/1966_e_002.pdf">Eugene England essay on the Atonement</a>, which also suggests a Moral Influence reading. He adds an attempt to do what Moral Influence has had trouble doing, which is to explain why it was “necessary,” how it is that “only Jesus” could effect this change.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/042-11-16.pdf">J. Clair Batty Sunstone personal essay</a> that shares his journey from confusion over God needing blood and anguish to forgive us to a sense of peace about the Atonement.</p>
<p>Link to an online posting of <a href="http://reperiendi.wordpress.com/2007/06/11/the-atonement-by-cleon-skousen/">W. Cleon Skousen&#8217;s uniquely Mormon take</a> on why the Atonement requiring Christ&#8217;s sacrifice was necessary.</p>
<p><a href="http://blakeostler.com/docs/AtonementInMormonThought.pdf">Blake Ostler article</a> outlining his views on how the Atonement works and comparing them to other Mormon theories.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/65665631/Jesus-Savior-or-Symbol#">Jared Anderson essay, &#8220;Jesus: Savior or Symbol,&#8221;</a> mentioned a few times in the podcast. Anderson&#8217;s attempt to honor the reality of the experiences with the Atonement many persons have while not necessarily forcing one to see the Atonement as a discreet, literal event.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://mormonmatters.org/2011/10/04/54-the-atonement-in-mormon-thought-and-experience/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>51</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://mormonmatters.org/podcast/MormonMatters-054.mp3" length="59763013" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>2:04:02</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>The central claim of Christianity is that all human beings are “fallen,” held captive by sin, or are in some other way in a dire circumstance that can only be overcome through God’s aid, which comes through faith in the infinite love and sacrifice o[...]</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>The central claim of Christianity is that all human beings are “fallen,” held captive by sin, or are in some other way in a dire circumstance that can only be overcome through God’s aid, which comes through faith in the infinite love and sacrifice of God’s own son, Jesus Christ. According to the Christian tradition, this is the central truth of the human condition, and it is only through what has been labeled the Atonement of Jesus Christ that there is a way out. Throughout history, many Christians have celebrated their feelings of being rescued from the grasp of sin, selfishness, and aimless searching for purpose via the Atonement, and they claim their transformed lives are living testaments to this saving act of God’s grace. Still, many—both outsiders and Christians themselves—have paused to ask questions such as: Why is this the only way someone can turn from sin or be made worthy of heaven? What kind of God requires the suffering of an innocent being in order to be willing to forgive humans of their shortcomings? If every sin must be punished, is there even such a thing as genuine “forgiveness”? Many people seem to be able to forgive others for their faults and evil acts who don’t believe in or have never even heard of Jesus Christ, so why can’t God? Many Christians have not only asked such questions, but from the very earliest days following Jesus’s death, they have formulated various theories to answer them and also explain the reasons the Atonement “works.”
In this podcast episode, Mormon Matters host Dan Wotherspoon and panelists Jared Anderson, Brian Johnston, and Tresa Edmunds explore these questions and the historical attempts to answer them and explain the experience of transformation or renewed life through Christ that so many claim, including the panelists themselves. In general, the discussion explores the Atonement from the ideas that first show up in biblical sources and then onto the main Atonement theory categories: ransom, satisfaction, penal substitution, and moral influence. It also gives attention to various angles on the Atonement and Christ’s redeeming work that are emphasized the most in Mormonism, as well as a couple of Atonement models that are unique to it. The panelists then close the discussion with their own views regarding or experiences with the Atonement in their own lives.
This episode is longer than a typical Mormon Matters podcast, but if one is to believe the Atonement is the most important single thing to ever take place in this world, the discussion’s extra length is fitting for its subject (and even far too short)! We hope you will all join in and further the discussion in the comments section below.
_____
Links to articles/essays of possible interest:
Lorin Hansen Dialogue article that describes the main categories of Atonement theories while suggesting Mormon ideas are closest to the Moral Influence theory.
Eugene England essay on the Atonement, which also suggests a Moral Influence reading. He adds an attempt to do what Moral Influence has had trouble doing, which is to explain why it was “necessary,” how it is that “only Jesus” could effect this change.
J. Clair Batty Sunstone personal essay that shares his journey from confusion over God needing blood and anguish to forgive us to a sense of peace about the Atonement.
Link to an online posting of W. Cleon Skousen&#8217;s uniquely Mormon take on why the Atonement requiring Christ&#8217;s sacrifice was necessary.
Blake Ostler article outlining his views on how the Atonement works and comparing them to other Mormon theories.
Jared Anderson essay, &#8220;Jesus: Savior or Symbol,&#8221; mentioned a few times in the podcast. Anderson&#8217;s attempt to honor the reality of the experiences with the Atonement many persons have while not necessarily forcing one to see the Atonement as a discreet, literal event.</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>podcast</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>Mormon Matters</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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		<title>King David and the Doctrine of Blood Atonement</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/06/24/blood-atonement/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/06/24/blood-atonement/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bored in Vernal</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Blood Atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS lessons]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[doctrine]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Old Testament; Sunday School]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=11765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OT SS Lesson #24 The following statement was made by the LDS Church last Wednesday in conjunction with the execution of Ronnie Lee Gardner by firing squad in Utah.  I see this as a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of what was taught in the past regarding the doctrine. Mormon Church Statement on Blood Atonement In the mid-19th century, when rhetorical, emotional oratory was common, some church members and leaders used strong language that included notions of people making restitution for their sins by giving up their own lives.  However, so-called &#8220;blood atonement,&#8221; by which individuals would be required to shed their own blood to pay for their sins, is not a doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We believe in and teach the infinite and all-encompassing atonement of Jesus Christ, which makes forgiveness of sin and salvation possible for all people. Some church members and leaders used strong language This statement glosses over the fact that it was the prophet and second president of the Church Brigham Young who initiated and publicly taught this doctrine numerous times, followed by later prophets and General Authorities in official discourse: &#8220;There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/c51.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-7683" title="Avatar-BiV" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/c51-150x150.jpg" alt="Avatar-BiV" width="80" height="80" /></a><big><strong>OT SS Lesson #24</strong></big></p>
<p>The following <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700041267/Mormon-church-statement-on-blood-atonement.html">statement</a> was made by the LDS Church last Wednesday in conjunction with the execution of <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700041276/Ronnie-Lee-Gardner-executed.html">Ronnie Lee Gardner</a> by firing squad in Utah.  I see this as a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of what was taught in the past regarding the doctrine.<span id="more-11765"></span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 90px;"><strong><big>Mormon Church Statement on Blood Atonement</big></strong></p>
<p style="padding-left: 90px;"><strong>In the mid-19th century, when rhetorical, emotional oratory was common, some church members and leaders used strong language that included notions of people making restitution for their sins by giving up their own lives.  However, so-called &#8220;blood atonement,&#8221; by which individuals would be required to shed their own blood to pay for their sins, is not a doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We believe in and teach the infinite and all-encompassing atonement of Jesus Christ, which makes forgiveness of sin and salvation possible for all people.</strong></p>
<p><em><span style="color: #008000;">Some church members and leaders used strong language</span></em></p>
<p>This statement glosses over the fact that it was the prophet and second president of the Church Brigham Young who initiated and publicly taught this doctrine numerous times, followed by later prophets and General Authorities in official discourse:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">&#8220;There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">&#8220;I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them&#8230;.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">&#8220;And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">&#8220;I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">&#8220;It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit&#8230;. There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man.&#8221; (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Mormon Church&#8217;s Deseret News, 1856, page 235)</p>
<p><em><span style="color: #008000;">so-called &#8220;blood atonement,&#8221; by which individuals would be required to shed their own blood to pay for their sins, is not a doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.</span></em></p>
<p>Officially, the doctrine of Blood Atonement was to be practiced voluntarily.  However, Michael Quinn has shown evidence that this practice was carried out among church members and leaders and sanctioned by Brigham Young in the early days of Utah. (The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Vol. 2, pp. 241-261)</p>
<p>An appeal to Latter-day scriptures on the application of blood atonement to the sin of murder results in confusion. <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=alma+24:10&amp;do=Search">Alma 24 :10</a> states that murderers can receive forgiveness by repentance, while <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=d%26c+42:18&amp;do=Search">D&amp;C 42:18</a> teaches that murder is unpardonable.  Attempting to doctrinally resolve this seeming conflict in a <em>Deseret News</em> article on July 4, 1883, Apostle Charles W. Penrose taught that in some cases such as murder done in anger or provocation, murder might be forgiven, but only after the guilty party atones for the murder by the shedding of blood. (Charles W. Penrose (July 4, 1883), &#8220;An Unpardonable Offense,&#8221; <em>Deseret News</em> 32 (24): 376.)  President Joseph Fielding Smith agreed, while making it clear that this should be completely voluntary on the part of the sinner:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel&#8230;Man may commit certain grievous sins &#8212; according to his light and knowledge &#8212; that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone &#8212; so far as the power lies &#8212; for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail&#8230;But that the Church practices “Blood Atonement” on apostates or any others, which is preached by ministers of the ‘Reorganization’ is a damnable falsehood for which the accusers must answer. (Joseph Fielding Smith (1954), Bruce R. McConkie, ed., Doctrines of Salvation, 1, Salt Lake City, Utah:Bookcraft.)</p>
<p>According to both Penrose and Joseph Fielding Smith, the doctrine of blood atonement was the reason the founders of Utah incorporated in the laws of the Territory provisions for capital punishment, giving murderers a choice to be shot by firing squad as a &#8220;willing expiation&#8221; for their sin.</p>
<p>Blood atonement was understood to be a doctrine of the Church, and influenced policy-making and practice among nineteenth-century Mormons.  I believe that the majority of modern members will welcome a change in this policy.  But to present this change as anything but a departure from that which was taught by early Church leaders as doctrine is disingenuous.</p>
<p><em><span style="color: #008000;">We believe in and teach the infinite and all-encompassing atonement of Jesus Christ, which makes forgiveness of sin and salvation possible for all people</span><span style="color: #008000;">.</span></em></p>
<p>Finally we come to  the connection this post has to this week&#8217;s <a href="http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=0694c106dac20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD">Sunday School lesson</a>.  It is a common misperception that the Church teaches &#8220;the infinite and all-encompassing atonement of Jesus Christ.&#8221;  But in reality, our manuals and even our LDS edition of the scriptures teach that there are sins for which complete repentance through Christ&#8217;s atonement is not possible.  The murder of Uriah by King David is one of these.  Though David spent the rest of his life and hundreds of Biblical passages repenting of this sin, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/39#39">D&amp;C 132:39</a> states:</p>
<div>
<div id="dc/132/39" style="padding-left: 30px;">David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, t<em>herefore he hath fallen from his exaltation</em>, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.</div>
</div>
<p>The <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/d/13">Bible Dictionary</a> explains:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">[David] was guilty of grave crimes; but unlike Saul, he was capable of true contrition and was therefore able to find forgiveness, <em>except in the murder of Uriah</em>. As a consequence David <em>is still unforgiven</em>, but he received a promise that the Lord would not leave his soul in hell. He will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium. Because of his transgressions, <em>he has fallen from his exaltation.</em></p>
<p>Even the Sunday School manual concurs, backing up the position with a quote by Marion G. Romney:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Note that adultery is a serious sin, but David <em>forfeited his exaltation</em> because the Lord held him accountable for the murder of Uriah.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">President Marion G. Romney said: “David, … though highly favored of the Lord (he was, in fact, referred to as a man after God’s own heart), yielded to temptation. His unchastity led to murder, and as a consequence, <em>he lost his families and his exaltation</em>” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1979, 60; or Ensign, May 1979, 42).</p>
<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/King_David.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-11813" style="margin-left: 50px; margin-right: 50px;" title="King_David" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/King_David.jpg" alt="" width="239" height="263" /></a><br />
The LDS stance that King David was unable to be completely forgiven despite his obvious and sincere repentance has greatly bothered me.  Most other Christian churches teach that the atonement was active in David&#8217;s case, wholly cleansing him from all of his sins.  But the Mormon church does not.  That the fallen condition of David is so pervasively taught in LDS scripture, General Authority addresses, and curriculum materials lends credence to the doctrine of blood atonement as taught in the past.  In such cases, the Savior&#8217;s sacrifice is insufficient to cleanse transgressors from certain sins such as murder.  I witnessed one of the ramifications in Church policy when an investigator friend of mine in college was denied baptism into the Church because she had previously had an abortion.</p>
<p>I am curious to know the opinion of our readers on this subject.  First, do you feel the recent official statement above reflects an honest articulation of the teachings of the Church on Blood Atonement? Next, do you think that David lost his exaltation, and if so, does this place limits on the effects of Christ&#8217;s Atonement?</p>
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		<title>Binding the Broken-Hearted</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/05/23/binding-the-broken-hearted/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/05/23/binding-the-broken-hearted/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 06:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bored in Vernal</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=11360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nothing is more painful than a broken heart. When this kind of sorrow gets deep into a person’s soul, all troubles are magnified, blessings are unseen, and it seems almost impossible to bear the daily experience of life. Getting out of bed is misery. Living is torment. A broken heart can cause such an intense reaction that many of us feel our lives have been completely stripped of meaning. Jobs, hobbies, and friends no longer hold any joy for us. In fact, some even experience physical pain with a tight chest, nervous stomach, or terrible insomnia. Nobody understands a broken heart but one whose heart has been broken. I can think of nothing sadder than someone whose heart is broken. When someone has been disappointed and broken, it affects all of his or her relationships. A broken heart could just be the cause of that cutting remark someone made to you, or even the rude gesture someone made out of a car window.  There&#8217;s a passage in the Old Testament that really comforts me when I am feeling the weight of loneliness and sorrow that sometimes comes over me.  It also comes to mind when I&#8217;m wondering how I can [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/small-heart.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-11362" title="small heart" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/small-heart.jpg" alt="" width="74" height="100" /></a>Nothing is more painful than a broken heart.  When this kind of sorrow gets deep into a person’s soul, all troubles are magnified, blessings are unseen, and it seems almost impossible to bear the daily experience of life. Getting out of bed is misery. Living is torment. A broken heart can cause such an intense reaction that many of us feel our lives have been completely stripped of meaning. Jobs, hobbies, and friends no longer hold any joy for us. In fact, some even experience physical pain with a tight chest, nervous stomach, or terrible insomnia.  Nobody understands a broken heart but one whose heart has been broken. I can think of nothing sadder than someone whose heart is broken.<span id="more-11360"></span></p>
<p>When someone has been disappointed and broken, it affects all of his or her relationships.  A broken heart could just be the cause of that cutting remark someone made to you, or even the rude gesture someone made out of a car window.  There&#8217;s a passage in the Old Testament that really comforts me when I am feeling the weight of loneliness and sorrow that sometimes comes over me.  It also comes to mind when I&#8217;m wondering how I can possibly make a difference in someone&#8217;s life who is hurting so badly.  Here&#8217;s my poetic interpretation of <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=isaiah+61:1-3&amp;do=Search">Isaiah 61:1-3</a>:</p>
<p>He hath sent me to bind up the broken,<br />
To cry to the captives: Behold, ye are free!<br />
&#8216;Tis the year of Jehovah&#8217;s good graces<br />
Then eyes that are fettered, at last they shall see.<br />
Day of our God&#8217;s just avenging:<br />
All mourners in Zion shall comforted be.</p>
<p>I shall give to them beauty for ashes,<br />
The oil of rejoicing in place of pain,<br />
The garment of praise for sad spirit;<br />
That strong trees of righteousness they might remain.<br />
Oaks of Jehovah&#8217;s own planting,<br />
That ever may be for His glory and gain!<br />
(BiV&#8217;s Isaiah 61:1-3)</p>
<p>In the Garden of Eden narrative, we are taught that there is an opposite to everything.  Joy and sorrow are opposites, so are pleasure and pain. When Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, their eyes were opened and they were able to experience all of these things.  In the Isaiah passage above, it speaks of eyes being opened through the experiencing of some of these opposites: beauty/ashes, rejoicing/pain, praise/sadness.  These figures show us the value of living in a world where suffering exists.  A broken heart opens us to insights that we wouldn&#8217;t be able to see without it.</p>
<p>The Messiah figure in this passage also opens us up to embrace dependence.  I think humans have a tendency to adulate self-reliance.  With this comes pride and even solitude.  As we become more open to dependence &#8212; on Divine guidance, on a Savior and on each other, we learn love and community.  These are things which can heal the brokenness that is a part of living in a fallen world.  Isaiah 61 is a Messianic prophecy which teaches of a Savior who is sent forth by God&#8217;s spirit to replace pain with rejoicing, to give beauty for ashes.  But it also teaches us that we can go forth in the same spirit to bind up the broken.</p>
<p>I heard a story about a young man who proclaimed to have the most beautiful, flawless heart. As the crowd watched, he bared his chest to show a shining, golden, perfectly shaped heart.  Then an old man challenged him.  He came forward to show the crowd what his heart looked like.  It was beating strongly, but was misshapen and full of holes and scars.  It appeared that some pieces had been removed and others had been put in, but didn’t fit quite right. The old man looked at the young man, “I would never trade my heart for yours. Every scar represents a person I’ve given my love &#8212; I tear out a piece and give it to them. Sometimes they give me a piece of their broken heart, which I fit along jagged edges. When the person doesn’t return my love, a painful gouge is left. Those gouges stay open, reminding me that I love these people too. Perhaps someday they will return and fill that space.”</p>
<p>Over the years, my heart has come to resemble that old man&#8217;s.  What a Messiah means to me is recognizing this connectedness and interdependence.  It is knowing I am not as complete with a golden flawless heart that has never felt the great wrenchings.  It is opening myself to love and sorrow and rejection and recognizing that I can&#8217;t do it all on my own.  And then it is doing my best to give others a piece of my heart to help heal theirs.</p>
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		<title>After Action Report: The Community of Christ Did WHAT?</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/04/21/after-action-report-the-community-of-christ-did-what/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/04/21/after-action-report-the-community-of-christ-did-what/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>FireTag</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[apostles]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=10678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Headline in the Independence Examiner for Thursday, April 15, 2010: &#8220;Delegation Takes No Action on Human Sexuality Issues: Church Will Continue Dialogue.&#8221; Headline  by John Hamer on BCC on Thursday, April 15, 2010: &#8220;Gay Rights Revelation Added to The Community of Christ D&#38;C&#8221; &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;- The two headlines above generally cover the spectrum of opinion about what happened at the Community of Christ World Conference as it completed the process of canonization of a new Section 164 for its D&#38;C. The spectrum of opinions about whether what happened was a good thing or bad thing, of course, runs even more broadly. Indeed, I’m not at all certain that we’ll even be able to see how intense the various “colors” of that spectrum will prove until information about the conference filters down to the bulk of the North American church that maintains no real connection to the World Church in the &#8220;Blogitorium&#8221;. As in many churches on the Christian left in North America, that membership tends to be somewhat more traditionalist than its leadership. Nevertheless, I’ll give my view as someone from one part of the peanut gallery, focusing on what was in each portion of Section 164 and the effects of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Headline in the <em>Independence</em><em> Examiner </em>for Thursday, April 15, 2010:</p>
<p><strong><em>&#8220;Delegation Takes No Action on Human Sexuality Issues: Church Will Continue Dialogue.&#8221;</em></strong></p>
<p>Headline  <a href="http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/04/15/gay-rights-revelation-added-to-dc-world-conference-part-2-april-12%e2%80%9315/">by John Hamer on BCC </a> on Thursday, April 15, 2010:</p>
<p><strong><em>&#8220;Gay Rights Revelation Added to The Community of Christ D&amp;C&#8221;</em></strong></p>
<p><strong><em>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</em></strong></p>
<p>The two headlines above generally cover the spectrum of opinion about what happened at the Community of Christ World Conference as it completed the <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2010/01/05/canonizing-modern-revelation-a-tourist-guide/"> process of canonization</a> of a <a href="http://cofchrist.org/dc164/"> new Section 164</a> for its D&amp;C. The spectrum of opinions about whether what happened was a good thing or bad thing, of course, runs even more broadly. Indeed, I’m not at all certain that we’ll even be able to see how intense the various “colors” of that spectrum will prove until information about the conference filters down to the bulk of the North American church that maintains no real connection to the World Church <a href="http://saintsherald.com/2010/04/13/world-conference-in-the-blogosphere/"> in the &#8220;Blogitorium&#8221;</a>. As in many churches on the Christian left in North America, that membership tends to be somewhat more traditionalist than its leadership.<span id="more-10678"></span></p>
<p>Nevertheless, I’ll give my view as someone from one part of the peanut gallery, focusing on what was in each portion of Section 164 and the effects of associated legislation passed to begin implementation. A future post will provide a similar analysis on legislation considered by the Conference not specifically addressed by Section 164 and suggest something about the overall direction of the Community of Christ in the future.</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline">SECTION 164, PARAGRAPHS 1-4</span></strong></p>
<p>President Veazey describes the experiences of meditation, particularly on portions of Galatians 3:27-29, that led him to offer the Section. After commending the church for similarly seeking to discern the Spirit in a structured process that has been going on for well over a year, he makes explicit an understanding of the church and its sacraments which has been implicit in CofChrist theology for a number of years.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;&#8230;Instruction given previously about baptism was proper to ensure the rise and cohesiveness of the church during its early development and in following years. However, as a growing number have come to understand, the redemptive action of God in Christ—while uniquely and authoritatively expressed through the church—is not confined solely to the church. God’s grace, revealed in Jesus Christ, freely moves throughout creation, often beyond human perception, to achieve divine purposes in people’s lives.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The Community of Christ is to see itself as “one true church”, not as the “one <em><span style="text-decoration: underline">and only</span></em> true church”. How serious is this theological intent was earlier signaled by something I haven’t seen commentators note elsewhere. The first sessions of Conference always feature certain speeches of welcome. One is usually a non-CofChrist speaker. This speaker is often a local Congressman or a Missouri Senator. The speech is strictly non-political even then, but the identity is interesting because trends over time seem to show the direction of the church leadership’s interest.</p>
<p>This year that slot went to the Rev. Dr. Michael Kinnamon, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches. Kinnamon unabashedly spoke of the Community of Christ having unique gifts that should be seen as adding to bodies such as the NCC, rather than as a body going its own way. Ironically, contacts between the RLDS and the NCC were among the suspicions cited by fundamentalist opponents of the church circa 1970 as evidence of apostasy. Thus, such a speech 40 years ago might itself have been too controversial to occur.</p>
<p>Section 164 then lays out specific instruction (that will be followed quickly by formal administrative policy <a href="http://www.cofchrist.org/wc2010/counsel/QA3.asp"> guidance</a> to become effective by September 1, 2011). These policies will result in acceptance into membership into the Community of Christ upon confirmation by CofChrist priesthood – without requiring rebaptism if the original baptism: a) involved water;  b) was performed by an ordained Christian minister;  and c) as a personal expression of faith in Christ. In particular, we will not require someone to present proof of their baptism <em>or the baptizing minister’s credentials</em>, since that would be impossible in many places throughout the world. This clearly expands the notion of <em>true priesthood authority</em> beyond the boundaries of those called through the priesthood line passed to Joseph Smith.</p>
<p>The phrase “using water” also allows for baptisms done by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling, while upholding the church’s own standard practice of baptism by immersion at the age of accountability. There is also some additional specific guidance regarding the substance of the prayer of confirmation (Baptism of the Spirit) that is now the means by which one moves from being part of the Body of Christ into membership within the denomination. And preparation for confirmation will now be a formal requirement for the ordinance to occur.</p>
<p>Paragraph 3 contains a call for all members to serious consider and live the meaning of their baptismal covenants (water and Spirit). Paragraph 4 ties this call to consideration of the role the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper should play in renewing, witnessing, and amplifying our covenant. (Portions of the preamble specifically warn us to NOT make the meaning of the covenants atrophy even as we broaden the procedures, because of the concern that in some places this has happened with open communion).</p>
<p>This portion of the Section makes the Community of Christ look very Protestant – if you can call becoming more Protestant through modern revelation a Protestant concept in the first place.</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline">SECTION 164, PARAGRAPHS 5-7</span></strong></p>
<p>These are the paragraphs whose approval generated the widely divergent headlines above. Their actual content is to call attention to “serious questions about moral behavior and relationships” – but to prioritize those questions not simply as they are listed within the dominant culture of the denomination.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>“These issues are complex and difficult to understand outside their particular settings because of strikingly different cultural histories, customs, and understandings of scripture. For example, the issues include female submission, female genital mutilation, child brides, forced marriages, and sexual permissiveness. They include cleansing and exploitation of widows, harsh conflicts over same-gender attraction and relationships, and varying legal, religious, and social definitions of marriage, to name just a few.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote>
<p>More importantly, the Section calls us to see the solutions for these moral dilemmas as arising from an understanding of Christianity as a community that transcends definitions by economic status, social class, sex, gender, or ethnicity. They simply are no longer primary. Relationships are to be rooted in the principles of Christ-like love, mutual respect, responsibility, justice, covenant, and faithfulness, <em>against which there is no law.</em></p>
<p>Section 164 then extrapolates that these principles require that the church move the resolution of moral issues to the church in the cultures most affected by them rather than let the dominant North American church decide for the rest of the world. Field Apostles, under the guidance of the Presidency, are authorized to call and set the agenda for field, national, or (non-geographical) cultural groups to deal with issues such as those listed above as they feel directed.</p>
<p>Uncertainty about the nature and timing of these conferences is generating the widely divergent headlines about gay rights. First, everyone in the Community of Christ seems to understand that the leadership feels that it must not expose our leaders and members in cultures where discussion of gay issues is taboo. If so, they can hardly move toward expanded gay rights in the United States unless they can find a way to maintain what the government would call “plausible deniability&#8221;.</p>
<p>Second, there is a large body of conservative members in the US church (and non-members in society) whose reaction must be anticipated and allowed for. The LDS experience with Prop 8 shows what happens when the church in the US takes any position on controversial issues in the political arena. Many feel the church has moved too hesitantly and will continue to do so; others are likely to feel the church is moving in the wrong direction entirely.</p>
<p>Finally, there are logistical questions. It seems unlikely that the US church has the resources to assemble a national conference on gay rights issues before the spring of 2012 at the earliest. It will take until September, 2011, simply to implement the new conditions for membership.</p>
<p>The greatest sign of movement toward gay rights comes from something in administrative minutia. It is normal for the church to realign Apostolic Fields following a World Conference (our Apostles retire, so there are usually changes in the Twelve). This time a gerrymandered field has been carved out for Apostle Susan Skoor that stretches from Southern Australia to Eastern  Canada – and just happens to cover all of the non-US jurisdictions that proposed World Conference legislation expanding full priesthood and sacramental rites for gays. The extension of rights in that Field or in nations within that Field <em>might be granted</em> while maintaining sufficient distance from the World Church (and prying media) to protect the church in cultures hostile to gay rights.</p>
<p>Expansion to the US is much more difficult to do while maintaining any credibility to foreign governments and religious bodies that “this is just local jurisdictions acting on their own.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps more significantly in the long run than the particular moral issues – at least from the perspective of this Washington spectator – is the change these paragraphs make in the legislative rights of mission centers to set the agenda for the church. The Presidency immediately ruled 21 legislative proposals that had been painstakingly brought to the conference as out of order because they reflect National or Regional concerns. These rulings were entirely appropriate under Section 164 guidance.</p>
<p>However, the Conference later passed implementing legislation for the field and national conferences that make them “special conferences”. Such conferences operate under different parliamentary rules than World Conference. In particular,  Mission Centers lack the right to place items on the agenda of special conferences; that agenda is set <em>only</em> by the Apostle who calls the conference with the approval of the Presidency. In short, this revelation makes the Community of Christ less democratic and more theocratic than it was a year ago.</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline">SECTION 164, PARAGRAPH 8</span></strong></p>
<p>Paragraph 8, by contrast, shows the flexibility and speed with which the Community of Christ can move on organizational issues when it wishes to do so. The Twelve and the Presidents of the Seven Quorums of Seventy have been meeting for several years in response to the immediately previous revelation (Section 163) to consider organizational changes to increase evangelistic effectiveness. Paragraph 8 is taken as authorization to make these changes.</p>
<p>Within 24 hours of Section 164 approval, the number of Quorums of Seventy was increased from seven to ten, the additional Quorum Presidents were named, and they were approved by the Conference and set apart to that calling. Jack Bauer couldn&#8217;t have moved faster. Clearly, the outcome of these discussions among the leading quorums was well prepared in advance, while they are still feeling their way around the notion of how and when national conferences will function.</p>
<p>Reorganization of the Twelve, while not fundamental, essentially separates the world into 10 Fields for the moment, each led by an Apostle, with the remaining two Apostles focusing on Headquarters-oriented tasks. For the first time, a single Quorum of Seventy will be aligned with the geographic or other missionary focus of a Field Apostle.</p>
<p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline">SECTION 164, PARAGRAPH 9</span></strong></p>
<p>The final paragraph of the document is a benediction of sorts, and a challenge that the rise of Zion is no farther away than the willingness of all of us – all the “beloved children of the Restoration” – to overcome our insecurities and embrace a Christ-like life.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8220;The mission of Jesus Christ is what matters most to the journet ahead.&#8221;</em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>If Easter Be Not True</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/04/04/if-easter-be-not-true/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2010/04/04/if-easter-be-not-true/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bored in Vernal</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Easter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Resurrection]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[worship]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=10285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve learned a few things from teaching swimming lessons to tiny children for over 30 years. One of the most obvious is that some kids have a screeching fear of being put on their back.  No matter how much you try to reassure them, they don&#8217;t trust the water (or their teacher, or even their mom!) to hold them up.  You can demonstrate, you can show them other kids who can do it, you can bribe, coerce, cajole.  But it takes a while for these skeptical ones to learn to relax, lay their head back, get their ears wet, and FLOAT.  Belief in the resurrection of Christ may pose a similar challenge for some. What really happened on that first Easter morning around 2000 years ago?  There is the &#8220;swoon theory&#8221; advocated by those who assert that Christ did not really die upon the cross, that His supposed death was only a temporary swoon, and that His Resurrection was simply a return to consciousness. This was promoted by Paulus (&#8220;Exegetisches Handbuch&#8221;, 1842, II, p. 929) and in a modified form by Hase (&#8220;Gesch. Jesu&#8221;, n. 112).  Another theory is the &#8220;imposition theory urged by Celsus (Origen, Against Celsus II.56).  The [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/easter31.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-10288" title="easter3" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/easter31.jpg" alt="" width="110" height="110" /></a>I&#8217;ve learned a few things from teaching swimming lessons to tiny children for over 30 years. One of the most obvious is that some kids have a screeching fear of being put on their back.  No matter how much you try to reassure them, they don&#8217;t trust the water (or their teacher, or even their mom!) to hold them up.  You can demonstrate, you can show them other kids who can do it, you can bribe, coerce, cajole.  But it takes a while for these skeptical ones to learn to relax, lay their head back, get their ears wet, and FLOAT.  Belief in the resurrection of Christ may pose a similar challenge for some.<span id="more-10285"></span></p>
<p>What really happened on that first Easter morning around 2000 years ago?  There is the &#8220;swoon theory&#8221; advocated by those who assert that Christ did not  really die upon the cross, that His  supposed death was only a temporary swoon, and that His Resurrection was simply a return to consciousness.  This was promoted by Paulus (&#8220;Exegetisches Handbuch&#8221;, 1842, II, p. 929) and in a modified form by Hase (&#8220;Gesch. Jesu&#8221;, n. 112).  Another theory is the &#8220;imposition theory urged by Celsus (Origen, <em>Against Celsus</em> II.56).  The disciples, it is said, stole the body of Jesus from the grave, and then proclaimed to others that their Lord had risen.  This is a theory the Jews proposed as described in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/12#12">Matthew 28:12</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;And when they were assembled  with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the  soldiers, Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept. And if this come to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him, and secure you. So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is  commonly reported among the Jews until this day.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>A third possibility, the &#8220;vision theory,&#8221; explains that enthusiasm, nervousness, and mental excitement  on the part of the disciples caused them to experience mass hallucinations; to see and believe things that weren&#8217;t really true.  But is it possible that the Biblical account can be trusted?  Can one who was raised in a modern, secular culture such as ours really lay his or her head back and float in the nebulous pool of faith?</p>
<p>Did five women, led by Mary Magdalene, set out for the tomb of Jesus early on a Sunday morning?  Intending to anoint his body with spices, did they instead find an open tomb with the stone rolled away?  After the women spread the news that someone had taken the body of their Lord, did John and Peter run to the tomb and enter, astounded?  Was there something supernatural about what they saw: the graveclothes lying on a ledge in  the tomb almost like an empty cocoon after the butterfly has emerged?  Not long after that, it is written, Jesus appeared to Mary.  Then to the women. Then to Peter. Then to the disciples on the road to  Emmaus. Then to the 11 disciples. A week later he appeared to Thomas who  believed in spite of his own doubts, crying out, “My Lord and my God!”</p>
<p>Quickly the word spread, “He’s alive!” This became the watchword  of the early church. The apostles ended up as martyrs for their faith in  the resurrection of Jesus Christ. After 2000 years do we dare to conclude without any evidence that Jesus died on Friday afternoon and that  he literally, physically, and bodily rose from the dead on Sunday  morning?</p>
<p>And even for those who do believe the Easter story to this point, a deeper struggle comes when we stand next to a sickbed, gazing at the  face of someone we love. The crisis may come at the senseless death of a child, a spouse, a brother.  Many of us wonder at that moment, “Is it  possible that I will see this person again?” The body is cold.  Death seems so final, faith so unsure.  The following poem was written by an unknown soldier who died during World War I. It  powerfully expresses what must follow if there is no resurrection from the dead:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">If death ends all, then evil must be good,<br />
Wrong must be right, and beauty ugliness.<br />
God is a Judas who betrays his Son,<br />
And with a kiss, damns all the world to hell—<br />
If Christ rose not again.</p>
<p>This is reminiscent of the poignant passage in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/15/19#19">1 Corinthians 15:17-19</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="color: #993300;"><big>&#8220;And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.<br />
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.<br />
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.&#8221;</big></span></p></blockquote>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://theologyforum.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/ed-knippersthe-resurrection-of-christoil-on-wood20071.jpg"><img class="aligncenter" title="The Resurrection of Christ, oil on wood, by Edward Knippers" src="http://theologyforum.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/ed-knippersthe-resurrection-of-christoil-on-wood20071.jpg" alt="" width="403" height="277" /></a></p>
<p>To appease the pain these questions leave for modern man, existential theology demythologizes the miraculous elements of the gospel to reveal the &#8220;true&#8221; Christian message: the call to authentic existence in the face of death, symbolized by the cross.  As much as I believe the teachings of Christ are all about social justice, this leaves me flat.  If there is no resurrection, it doesn&#8217;t seem to make a difference.  To quote another poet (Henry H. Barstow),</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">What matter though we laugh or cry,<br />
Be good or evil, live or die,<br />
If Easter be not true.</p>
<p>Today I WANT Easter to be true.  I&#8217;m plunging my head back, holding my breath, willing myself to float.  I&#8217;ve got that same feeling in the pit of my stomach that my little swimmers do.  I don&#8217;t know for sure that Christ lives, that the water will hold me.  I&#8217;ve never seen him face to face, never touched his wounds. But on a day like today, I believe.  I&#8217;m looking at the sky, the mountains, the flowers, I&#8217;m feeling the early morning sunshine on my skin.  I&#8217;m letting the words of the scriptures work on me. I&#8217;m thinking of a Savior and the resurrection and I&#8217;m reciting &#8212; over and over &#8212; the words of that unknown soldier who died in World War I:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">If it be all for naught, for nothingness<br />
At last, why does God make the world so fair?<br />
Why spill this golden splendor out across<br />
The western hills, and light the silver lamp<br />
Of eve? Why give me eyes to see, and soul<br />
To love so strong and deep? Then, with a pang<br />
This brightness stabs me through, and wakes within<br />
Rebellious voice to cry against all death?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;">Why set this hunger for eternity<br />
To gnaw my heartstrings through, if death ends all?</p>
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		<title>&#8220;Knowing&#8221; It All</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/11/02/knowing-it-all/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/11/02/knowing-it-all/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[certainty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fast and testimony meeting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prophet]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[truth]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=8191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mormons love to use the word &#8220;know.&#8221;  We say we know God lives.  We say we know that Jesus is the Christ.  We say we know that families can be together forever.  Some say that they know the church is true or that Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet (the middle initial makes him truer somehow).  People say they &#8220;know&#8221; a lot of things.  What does &#8220;know&#8221; mean in Mormonism?  Has it been overused to the point that its meaning has changed or that is has become meaningless? According to the dictionary, to know has 6 different contemporary meanings (when used with a direct object):  to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty; e.g. &#8220;I have a clear and certain understanding of eternal families.  My dead grandfather came back and said &#8216;yup&#8217; that&#8217;s the way it is.&#8221; to have established or fixed in the mind or memory; e.g. &#8220;I would be able to pick Jesus out of a line-up.&#8221; to be cognizant or aware of; e. g. &#8220;I am aware of their being a devil on my shoulder, prodding me to do evil; can you guys see this?&#8221; to be acquainted with (a thing, place, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mormons love to use the word &#8220;know.&#8221;  We say we know God lives.  We say we know that Jesus is the Christ.  We say we know that families can be together forever.  Some say that they know the church is true or that Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet (the middle initial makes him truer somehow).  People say they &#8220;know&#8221; a lot of things.  What does &#8220;know&#8221; mean in Mormonism?  Has it been overused to the point that its meaning has changed or that is has become meaningless?<span id="more-8191"></span></p>
<p><img class="alignright" src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/3158223799_939983c007.jpg" alt="" width="271" height="219" />According to the dictionary, to <strong>know</strong> has 6 different contemporary meanings (when used with a direct object): </p>
<ol>
<li>to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty; e.g. <em><span style="color: #0000ff;">&#8220;I have a clear and certain understanding of eternal families.  My dead grandfather came back and said &#8216;yup&#8217; that&#8217;s the way it is.&#8221;</span></em></li>
<li>to have established or fixed in the mind or memory; e.g. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>&#8220;I would be able to pick Jesus out of a line-up.&#8221;</em></span></li>
<li><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">to be cognizant or aware of; e. g. </span><em>&#8220;I am aware of their being a devil on my shoulder, prodding me to do evil; can you guys see this?&#8221;</em></span></li>
<li>to be acquainted with (a thing, place, person, etc.), as by sight, experience, or report; e.g. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>&#8220;I have met Thomas S. Monson, and he sure looked like a prophet to me.&#8221;</em></span></li>
<li>to understand from experience or attainment (usually fol. by how before an infinitive);  e.g. <em><span style="color: #0000ff;">&#8220;I understand the gospel because I have lived it and it makes my life better.&#8221;</span></em> </li>
<li>to be able to distinguish, as one from another;  e.g. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>&#8220;I know this church is the one that Jesus leads vs. those other false ones that Jesus merely dabbled with.&#8221;</em></span></li>
</ol>
<p>To <strong>believe</strong>, on the other hand, has the following 5 meanings (when used with a direct object): </p>
<ol>
<li>to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.);  to give credence to; e.g. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>&#8220;I have confidence in the idea of the atonement and that it will apply to me.&#8221;</em></span></li>
<li>to have confidence in an assertion;  e.g. <em><span style="color: #0000ff;">&#8220;I believe that the church is a restoration of the early Christian church.&#8221;</span></em></li>
<li>to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation;  e.g. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>&#8220;I believe Jesus was resurrected.&#8221;</em></span></li>
<li>to suppose or assume; understand (usually fol. by a noun clause);  e.g. <em><span style="color: #0000ff;">&#8220;I believe in the counsel that was given at General Conference.&#8221;</span></em> </li>
<li>to believe in a) to be persuaded of the truth or existence of; b) to have faith in the reliability, honesty, benevolence, etc., of; e.g. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><em>&#8220;I believe I have heavenly parents who care about me.&#8221;</em></span></li>
</ol>
<blockquote><p>Ether 12:6 - I would show unto the world that <sup>a</sup><a title="Heb. 11: 1." type="A" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/6a">faith</a> is things which are <sup>b</sup><a title="Rom. 8: 25 (24-25)" type="A" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/6b">hoped</a> for and <sup>c</sup><a title="Alma 32: 21." type="A" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/6c">not</a> seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no <sup>d</sup><a title="Lev. 9: 6 (6, 23); 2 Ne. 1: 15; TG Sign Seekers." type="C" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/6d">witness</a> until after the <sup>e</sup><a title="3 Ne. 26: 11; TG Test, Try, Prove." type="C" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/12/6e">trial</a> of your faith.</p>
<p>Alma 32: 18 &amp; 21 &#8211; 18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to <sup>a</sup><a title="Luke 16: 30 (27-31); Ether 12: 12 (12, 18)" type="A" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32/18a">believe</a>, for he knoweth it. 21 And now as I said concerning faith—<sup>a</sup><a title="John 20: 29; Heb. 11: 1 (1-40)" type="A" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32/21a">faith</a> is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye <sup>b</sup><a title="TG Hope." type="B" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32/21b">hope</a> for things which are <sup>c</sup><a title="Ether 12: 6." type="A" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32/21c">not</a> seen, which are true.</p></blockquote>
<p><img class="alignright" src="http://www.sfcatholicschools.org/mission_stmt_color%20copy.gif" alt="" width="161" height="171" />What do people at church mean when they say they &#8220;know&#8221; things they relate in their testimony?  Here are some possibilities:</p>
<ol>
<li>They aren&#8217;t certain, but they&#8217;ve decided to act on their hope (the first stages of faith).</li>
<li>The language of certainty is the norm; they are simply spouting cliches or don&#8217;t want to sound &#8220;different&#8221; by expressing what they believe or hope.</li>
<li>They haven&#8217;t questioned to this point in their life or experienced doubts; therefore, they are &#8220;certain&#8221; by default.  They still have the unblinking faith of a child.</li>
<li>They have experienced a witness of a specific concept after acting on their faith.  They &#8220;know&#8221; this specific thing based on that witness.</li>
<li>They have experienced some general sort of &#8220;witness&#8221; (loosely defined) that they are applying holistically to all concepts taught at church, assuming that one witness covers all points of doctrines (all win or lose together).</li>
</ol>
<p>So, what do you think it means when people say they &#8220;know&#8221;?  Is it a cliché that is damaging to those who don&#8217;t &#8220;know&#8221; but assume everyone else does?  Is it dishonest?  Is it an act of faith to say we know when we only hope or believe?  Would you rather hear more accurate language in testimonies?</p>
<p>Discuss.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Was Jesus a Buddhist?</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/10/19/was-jesus-a-buddhist/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/10/19/was-jesus-a-buddhist/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[buddhism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[enlightenment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tolerance]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=8037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The NT doesn&#8217;t give much insight into Jesus&#8217; life between age 12 and 30. Did he encounter Buddhism and seek personal enlightenment? Or are these ideas just inherently the best ones humanity will continue to stumble upon in our spiritual lives? Buddha was a teacher who lived over 500 years before Christ.  The influence of his teachings had spread far in the centuries before Christianity.  Buddha is viewed as an awakened teacher who provides insights to help people end their own cycles of suffering.  Others have made additional parallels between Buddha and Christ, although there are many differences as well. Many Christians are completely closed off to the notion that Jesus encountered Buddhism and that it influenced his teachings, considering Buddhism either a false, pagan religion (wrong on all 3 counts, IMO) or citing the fact that Buddha was only a teacher, not a God. Fair enough, but some early Christian docs refer to Jesus as not divine (gnostic texts often take this stance, IIRC). And certainly, if we are focused on becoming Christlike, that&#8217;s placing him primarily in the role of teacher. The idea that Jesus was Buddhist was an underlying theme of the totally fictional book Lamb: The [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;">The NT doesn&#8217;t give much insight into Jesus&#8217; life between age 12 and 30. Did he encounter Buddhism and seek personal enlightenment? Or are these ideas just inherently the best ones humanity will continue to stumble upon in our spiritual lives?<span id="more-8037"></span></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="alignright" src="http://eternalvalues.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/buddha.jpg" alt="http://eternalvalues.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/buddha.jpg" width="234" height="279" />Buddha was a teacher who lived over 500 years before Christ.  The influence of his teachings had spread far in the centuries before Christianity.  Buddha is viewed as an awakened teacher who provides insights to help people end their own cycles of suffering.  Others have made additional parallels between Buddha and Christ, although there are many differences as well.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Many Christians are completely closed off to the notion that Jesus encountered Buddhism and that it influenced his teachings, considering Buddhism either a false, pagan religion (wrong on all 3 counts, IMO) or citing the fact that Buddha was only a teacher, not a God. Fair enough, but some early Christian docs refer to Jesus as not divine (gnostic texts often take this stance, IIRC). And certainly, if we are focused on becoming Christlike, that&#8217;s placing him primarily in the role of teacher.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">The idea that Jesus was Buddhist was an underlying theme of the totally fictional book Lamb: The Gospel of Biff, Childhood Pal of Christ, a somewhat irreverent novel.  In the book, Jesus &amp; Biff (his BFF) take off at age 12 and explore the path to enlightenment by looking up the 3 wise men to find out what Jesus is supposed to do with all this divinity of his.  (SPOILER ALERT:  He decides to become a Bodhisattva (savior) after his travails.)</p>
<p>Another Jesus/Buddhism parallel is this notion that Jesus is buried on an island in Japan, and that the Jesus of the NT is his Japanese brother who took his place. That&#8217;s another theory that has evangelicals&#8217; knickers in knots. <a onclick="this.target='_blank';" rel="nofollow" href="http://derefer.me/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingo,_Aomori">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingo,_Aomori</a>and again here:<a onclick="this.target='_blank';" rel="nofollow" href="http://derefer.me/?http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm">http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm</a></p>
<p><img class="alignright" style="cursor: -moz-zoom-in;" src="http://vargagallery.com/TRIPTYCHfrontfor%20web.jpg" alt="http://vargagallery.com/TRIPTYCHfrontfor%20web.jpg" width="218" height="199" />Many sayings of Buddha could just as easily have been said by Jesus and his followers.  (The following comparisons are from a Mormon theological perspective, including NT, BOM and D&amp;C quotes):</p>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<ul>
<li>Both taught about living in the present:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.&#8221;</li>
<li>Matthew 6: 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that individuals should be able to recognize the truth through their own internal guide:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.&#8221;</li>
<li>Matt 13: 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both decried envy and encouraged humility:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others. He who envies others does not obtain peace of mind.&#8221;</li>
<li>Matt 23: 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that the physical is affected by the spiritual power within:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;Every human being is the author of his own health or disease.&#8221;</li>
<li>3 Ne 17:8 I see that your faith is sufficient that I should heal you</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that life is full of trials, whether one is rich or poor, and that compassion is best:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;Have compassion for all beings, rich and poor alike; each has their suffering. Some suffer too much, others too little.&#8221;</li>
<li>Matt 18: 27 &#8211; 33 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him aan hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught the power of mind over matter:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;He is able who thinks he is able.&#8221;</li>
<li>Matt 21: 21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that that humanity should join in unity:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye.&#8221;</li>
<li>D&amp;C 38:27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught the value of fellowship and friendship, and the need to comfort others on their spiritual path:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;He who loves 50 people has 50 woes; he who loves no one has no woes.&#8221;</li>
<li>Mosiah 18:9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort</li>
<li>2 Cor 7:13 Therefore we were comforted in your comfort: yea, and exceedingly the more joyed we for the joy of Titus, because his spirit was refreshed by you all.</li>
<li>Mark 3: 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both warned against the negative effects of anger:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  &#8220;Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.&#8221;</li>
<li>3 Ne 12: 22 But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of his judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that acting on wise counsel is more important than hearing wisdom:
<ul>
<li><strong>Buddha</strong>:  However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?</li>
<li>Matt 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.</li>
<li>
<div>Matt 7: 24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.</div>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that anger and envy lead to selfishness and derail one&#8217;s spiritual path:
<ul>
<li>
<div><strong>Buddha</strong>:  In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>2 Cor 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults.</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>3 Ne 32: 2 2 Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.</div>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught the importance of one&#8217;s internal life over external influences.
<ul>
<li>
<div><strong>Buddha</strong>:  It is a man&#8217;s own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Matt 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>2 Tim 1: 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.</div>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both taught that salvation is ultimately an individual matter.
<ul>
<li>
<div><strong>Buddha</strong>:  No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.</div>
</li>
<li>
<div>Philip 2: 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.</div>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="alignright" src="http://mikeduran.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jesus-buddha.jpg" alt="http://mikeduran.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jesus-buddha.jpg" width="107" height="161" />The NT doesn&#8217;t give much insight into Jesus&#8217; life between age 12 and 30.  Did he encounter Buddhism and seek personal enlightenment that colored his ministry?  Or are these ideas just inherently the best ones humanity will continue to stumble upon in our spiritual lives?  Discuss.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Approaching Isaiah 58: Fasting as a Spiritual Practice</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/10/12/on-fasting/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/10/12/on-fasting/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Aaron R. aka Rico</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mercy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spiritual progression]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=7436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sometime ago Jana Reiss wrote a column for Sunstone entitled ‘Mormonism as Praxis’[1] in which the writers attempted to explore what Mormonism means in terms of &#8216;spiritual practices&#8217;.  Jana, in a Sunstone podcast with Dan Wotherspoon, has explained that one of her main interests is trying to understand how these spiritual practices can become effective through a Mormon context.  This post is a feeble attempt to think in that same vein.  I wanted to try and understand how fasting is a spiritual practice. At the out-set I should explain that I am not a Biblical scholar nor am I especially good with languages.  So I would appreciate, and even expect, some dialogue regarding the thoughts that I want to express here. Isaiah 58 is, for me, the most inspiring text in the scriptures that discusses fasting.  In this post I want to consider some of the ideas it expresses.  Isaiah’s concern is that Israel’s focus in their fast is themselves.  He writes that people complain ‘Wherefore have we fasted… and thou seest not? Wherefore have we afflicted our soul and thou takest no knowledge’ (Isa 58:3)?   They fast ‘to make [their] voice heard on high’ (Isa 58:4). The Lord in response to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometime ago Jana Reiss wrote a column for Sunstone entitled ‘Mormonism as Praxis’[1] in which the writers attempted to explore what Mormonism means in terms of &#8216;spiritual practices&#8217;.  Jana, in a Sunstone podcast with Dan Wotherspoon, has explained that one of her main interests is trying to understand how these spiritual practices can become effective through a Mormon context.  This post is a feeble attempt to think in that same vein.  I wanted to try and understand how fasting is a spiritual practice.<span id="more-7436"></span></p>
<p>At the out-set I should explain that I am not a Biblical scholar nor am I especially good with languages.  So I would appreciate, and even expect, some dialogue regarding the thoughts that I want to express here.</p>
<p>Isaiah 58 is, for me, the most inspiring text in the scriptures that discusses fasting.  In this post I want to consider some of the ideas it expresses.  Isaiah’s concern is that Israel’s focus in their fast is themselves.  He writes that people complain ‘Wherefore have we fasted… and thou seest not? Wherefore have we afflicted our soul and thou takest no knowledge’ (Isa 58:3)?   They fast ‘to make [their] voice heard on high’ (Isa 58:4).</p>
<p>The Lord in response to this behaviour asks the people to turn the focus of their fast outward.  ‘Is this not the fast that I have chosen? To loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?  <em>Is it</em> not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?’ (Isa 58:6-7).</p>
<p>The sense I get is that this practice should be directed toward others.  To fast is not just to go without food as a sacrifice, but it is to render service or make especial effort to love those whom we struggle to love.  Fasting so that our own voice is heard in Heaven is condemned while serving our fellow men is central to our fast.  In fact, it seems that to give up food is a means by which we can ‘draw out [our] soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul’ (Isa 58:10).  As we voluntarily go without we are to think about or focus our time upon those who go without involuntarily.  To do this expands our compassion and love.  In fact, it seems that in this act we emulate Christ, who voluntarily suffered so that he might perfect his capacity for ‘mercy and empathy’ [2].</p>
<p>Isaiah outlines some of the promised blessings that may come from such a fast (see Isa 58:8-12).  In v.9 he says ‘then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I <em>am</em>. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity’.  I believe the Lord’s answer is not synonymous with having our voice heard on high.  I believe that that answer is ‘Here I am’.  I believe the Lord promises us his presence and comfort and yet, Isaiah reiterates that this will only come if we put off those behaviours which afflict others.  Thus as we give up, or put off, food so are we also to put off those actions which offend or hurt.  The food in one sense becomes a symbol of our sin, which we desire to put off.</p>
<p>In addition the Lord promises us that as we turn our lives outward to those around us, as we learn to expand our capacities for love and service, that our lives will become ‘like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not’ (Isa 58:11).  The poetic allusion to Christ as the Living waters is wonderful and yet what is significant here is not that we come to the Living Waters, but they become placed within us.  In this sense we become like Christ, in that we become fountains of love rather than cups which need filling.  Fasting is one of those spiritual practices that helps us to place the Living Waters in us.</p>
<p>In v. 12 the Lord promises that such people will be those who help prepare Zion.  In speaking of this verse Eugene England has said ‘The Lord has, in these verses, drawn a straight line from fasting for the hungry to becoming a &#8220;repairer of the breach&#8221;&#8211;to preserving peace that will &#8220;raise up the foundations of many generations&#8221; instead of dooming those generations to nuclear destruction. The Lord is describing, with the extra power of poetic language, a precise and inexorable moral law: mercy begets and multiplies mercy; sacrificial giving will beget and multiply kindness, understanding, patience, brotherhood&#8211;even between enemies.’ [3]  In this sense again through Fasting the Lord promises us that we will begin to learn how to heal the wounds which afflict ourselves and others; we will learn how to break down those barriers that restrict us from being at-one with each and with God.</p>
<p>I am inspired by these verse because I would like to be someone who exhibits these characteristics and yet it is clear to me now that only by directing my fast toward others will this be made possible.  I feel that I have too often fasted so that I might receive a particular job, or even so that I might get good marks in my education.  I feel the urge to repent and turn toward God and other people, and to do this through fasting.</p>
<p>Notes:</p>
<p>1. Jana Reiss, <em>Mormonism as Praxis</em> in Sunstone, 12/1/04 [Salt Lake City UT.: Sunstone Education Foundation, 2004], p. 16-27</p>
<p>2. Neal A. Maxwell, A Choice Seer in <em>Ensign</em>, August 1986.</p>
<p>3. Eugene England, <em>Fasting and Food, Not Weapons: a Mormon Response To Conflict</em> in BYU Studies, vol. 25 [Provo Ut.: BYU Publications, <em>1985)</em>, p. 154.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Do Mormon Kids Understand the Atonement?</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/28/the-atonement-poll/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/08/28/the-atonement-poll/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Charity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[correlation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[doctrine]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=6942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does the church teach that we are saved by grace or that we are saved by works?  This is one of the most oft-repeated criticisms of the Mormon church by other churches, that we don&#8217;t correctly understand the atonement of Jesus. In a recent talk, the speaker had attended an interesting interview with an evangelical who had converted from Mormonism because of what he felt was a misunderstanding on our part of the atonement, that Jesus&#8217; atonment was in fact personal and not just for mankind.  This idea that there might be other youth who misunderstand the theology prompted the speaker to open a discussion with the youth.  He shared the following quiz questions with the youth in the stake.  I thought I would post the 4 true/false questions here for our readers: The church does NOT teach that we are saved by grace. The church teaches that we are saved by works. The final judgment will be like legal scales; if your good works outweigh your bad works, you will be rewarded. We will get the reward we&#8217;ve earned. Most of the youth surveyed correctly answered #1 and #2; however, #3 and #4 were a mixed bag, with a split down [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does the church teach that we are saved by grace or that we are saved by works?  This is one of the most oft-repeated criticisms of the Mormon church by other churches, that we don&#8217;t correctly understand the atonement of Jesus.<span id="more-6942"></span></p>
<p>In a recent talk, the speaker had attended an interesting interview with an evangelical who had converted from Mormonism because of what he felt was a misunderstanding on our part of the atonement, that Jesus&#8217; atonment was in fact personal and not just for mankind.  This idea that there might be other youth who misunderstand the theology prompted the speaker to open a discussion with the youth.  He shared the following quiz questions with the youth in the stake.  I thought I would post the 4 true/false questions here for our readers:</p>
<ol>
<li>The church does NOT teach that we are saved by grace.</li>
<li>The church teaches that we are saved by works.</li>
<li>The final judgment will be like legal scales; if your good works outweigh your bad works, you will be rewarded.</li>
<li>We will get the reward we&#8217;ve earned.</li>
</ol>
<p>Most of the youth surveyed correctly answered #1 and #2; however, #3 and #4 were a mixed bag, with a split down the middle in understanding the atonement as revealed by those questions.  Why is this?  Here are some theories:</p>
<ul>
<li>The &#8220;church&#8221; is just a group of people who don&#8217;t always understand the gospel.</li>
<li>The doctrine of salvation (three degrees of glory) adds in a meritocracy component missing in a pass/fail (e.g. Heaven/Hell)construct.</li>
<li>Other Christian sects essentially wage war on &#8220;works&#8221; (as if works undermine grace) to illustrate that Mormons aren&#8217;t Christians.  Mormons are on the defensive on this point theologically, which results in over-emphasis of works in our teaching.</li>
<li>Mormonism as a community is highly focused on outward behaviors (works) which are measurable rather than the internal behaviors such as belief and acceptance of grace (in other sects, witnessing). </li>
<li>Even though both are emphasized, works are easier to grasp because they are &#8220;controllable.&#8221;  Kids especially want to know what they have to do (the rules) to meet minimum requirements because kids need structure.</li>
</ul>
<p>The speaker also distinguished between mercy (not getting something bad that you deserve) and grace (getting something good that you haven&#8217;t earned).</p>
<p>So, are we failing to clearly teach the concept of atonement to our youth or do they understand it?  Does the community speak louder than the theology?  Discuss.</p>
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		<slash:comments>37</slash:comments>
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		<title>More Christ At Church</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/30/more-christ-at-church/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2009/04/30/more-christ-at-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Hawkgrrrl</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Asides]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Beatitudes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[curiosity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[diversity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General Conference]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[inter-faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leaders]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[orthodox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[parables]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[questioning]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sacrament meeting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[scripture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sermon on the Mount]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spirituality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[divinity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=5098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The mission of the church is to bring people to Christ (it is not the tri-fold mission of proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints and redeem the dead).  Yet many members feel that the focus on Christ is missing in our weekly worship.  So, what&#8217;s the best way to bring Christ back to the center of our Sundays? This trend is probably to some extent backlash against the histo-centric year we are having with D&#38;C as focus of GD class and JS manual in RS.  There may also be some desire to reaffirm our status as Christians when other religions often stigmatize us as not being Christian.  So, what would it look like if Christ were the center of our worship?  Here are some possibilities of how lessons &#38; talks might be more Christ-centric: the atonement of Christ; his role and divinity how to apply Christ&#8217;s teachings:  how to be followers of Christ stories from the life of Christ, events that happened to him in his lifetime the parables of Jesus &#8211; sharing and elaborating on these messages how to develop a personal relationship with Jesus; understanding Jesus&#8217; nature as a personal friend Have I missed any major angle above?  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mission of the church is to bring people to Christ (it is not the tri-fold mission of proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints and redeem the dead).  Yet many members feel that the focus on Christ is missing in our weekly worship.  So, what&#8217;s the best way to bring Christ back to the center of our Sundays?<span id="more-5098"></span></p>
<p><img class="alignright" src="http://www.cavemanart.com/osroene/images/Jesus1.jpg" alt="http://www.cavemanart.com/osroene/images/Jesus1.jpg" width="136" height="196" />This trend is probably to some extent backlash against the histo-centric year we are having with D&amp;C as focus of GD class and JS manual in RS.  There may also be some desire to reaffirm our status as Christians when other religions often stigmatize us as not being Christian.  So, what would it look like if Christ were the center of our worship?  Here are some possibilities of how lessons &amp; talks might be more Christ-centric:</p>
<ol>
<li>the atonement of Christ; his role and divinity</li>
<li>how to apply Christ&#8217;s teachings:  how to be followers of Christ</li>
<li>stories from the life of Christ, events that happened to him in his lifetime</li>
<li>the parables of Jesus &#8211; sharing and elaborating on these messages</li>
<li>how to develop a personal relationship with Jesus; understanding Jesus&#8217; nature as a personal friend</li>
</ol>
<p>Have I missed any major angle above?  It occurs to me that these topics might get stale if covered for 3 hours every week.  Also, if speakers only focused on 1 or 2 of the 5, it would get very repetitive.  I also notice that as I look over the list, I don&#8217;t find them equally appealing.  Personally, I would prefer them in this order:  2, 4, 3, 5, 1.  What order would you prefer?  I think the order in which they are usually focused at church is the order I listed them above:  1, 2, 3, 4, 5.  Do you agree?</p>
<p>Do you feel that Church should be more Christ-centered or that it is sufficiently Christ-centered?  Which of the above focuses would be of the most interest to you?  Are there some ways of focusing on Christ that you don&#8217;t find appealing?  How do you think our focus (especially by topic) compares to other Christian churches?  Discuss.</p>
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		<slash:comments>36</slash:comments>
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		<title>The Book of Mormon&#8217;s Doctrine of Deity</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/11/the-book-of-mormons-doctrine-of-deity/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/10/11/the-book-of-mormons-doctrine-of-deity/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 07:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Nielson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[book of mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Trinity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Swedenborg]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=2298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am fascinated by the Book of Mormon&#8217;s teachings (i.e. doctrines) about deity. I am almost equally fascinated with the many scholarly attempts to force fit it into pre-existing categories to make it seem safe. [1] There is a danger in trying to force fit the Book of Mormon into a pre-existing theological doctrine of deity. It is the same danger that exists in trying to force the Bible into a pre-existing theological doctrine of deity. Scripture &#8212; whether the Book of Mormon or the Bible &#8212; supplies us points of data. They do not supply us a specific theology. Theology is how we interpret or put those points together into a coherent whole for ourselves. But often our theologies are merely approximations of scriptural teachings.  After all, profound truths must somehow be turned into concrete concepts or we can&#8217;t wrap our mind around them. In this article, I&#8217;m going to attempt to actually list all the data points but not (at least not yet) attempt to &#8220;best fit&#8221; it to a theology. Jesus is God This is the most fundamental message of the Book of Mormon and the Title page states so: &#8230;to the convincing of the Jew and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am fascinated by the Book of Mormon&#8217;s teachings (i.e. doctrines) about deity. I am almost equally fascinated with the many scholarly attempts to force fit it into pre-existing categories to make it seem safe. [1]</p>
<p>There is a danger in trying to force fit the Book of Mormon into a pre-existing theological doctrine of deity. It is the same danger that exists in trying to force the Bible into a pre-existing theological doctrine of deity.</p>
<p>Scripture &#8212; whether the Book of Mormon or the Bible &#8212; supplies us points of data. They do not supply us a specific theology. Theology is how we interpret or put those points together into a coherent whole for ourselves.<span id="more-2298"></span></p>
<p>But often our theologies are merely <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/05/10/offenders-for-a-word-part-1-is-jesus-god/">approximations of scriptural teachings</a>.  After all, <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/01/19/what-is-mormon-doctrine/">profound truths must somehow be turned into concrete concepts or we can&#8217;t wrap our mind around them</a>.</p>
<p>In this article, I&#8217;m going to attempt to actually list all the data points but not (at least not yet) attempt to &#8220;best fit&#8221; it to a theology.</p>
<p><strong>Jesus is God</strong></p>
<p>This is the most fundamental message of the Book of Mormon and the Title page states so:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile <span style="underline;">that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God</span>, manifesting himself unto all nations&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/26/12#12">2 Nephi 26:12</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also <span style="underline;">that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God</span>;</p></blockquote>
<p>Jesus is specifically indicated as being fully God and fully Divine. There is no Book of Mormon concept of Jesus being a sub-god of some sort.</p>
<p>Jesus is specifically referred to, by those worshiping Him, as their Lord and God:</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/19/18#18">3 Nephi 3:18</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, <span style="underline;">calling him their Lord and their God</span>.</p></blockquote>
<p>See also <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/13/28,33-34#28">Mosiah 13:28,33-34</a>; <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/hel/8/22-23#22">Helaman 8:22-23</a>; <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=references&amp;search=3+Nephi+11%3A10,14&amp;do=Search">3 Nephi 11:10,14</a>;</p>
<p><strong>Jesus is the Son of God, the Only Begotten of His Father</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/25/19#19">2 Nephi 25:19</a></p>
<blockquote><p>19 For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, <span style="underline;">his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God</span>.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/9/26#26">Alma 9:26</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>26 And not many days hence <span style="underline;">the Son of God</span> shall come in his glory; and <span style="underline;">his glory shall be the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father</span>, full of grace, equity, and truth, full of patience, mercy, and long-suffering, quick to hear the cries of his people and to answer their prayers.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/20/31#31">3 Nephi 20:31</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>And they shall believe in me, that <span style="underline;">I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God</span>, and shall pray unto the Father in my name.</p></blockquote>
<p>See also Mosiah 4:2; Alma 5:50; Alma 6:8; Alma 7: 9-10, 13; Alma 13:16; Alma 16:19-20; Morm 9:22 and many many more. (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?type=words&amp;last=Jesus+the+FAther&amp;help=&amp;wo=checked&amp;search=%22Son+of+God%22&amp;iw=bm&amp;tx=checked&amp;af=checked&amp;hw=checked&amp;bw=1">See here</a>)</p>
<p><strong>Jesus is Worthy of Worship</strong></p>
<p>In some sense of the word &#8220;worship&#8221; &#8212; <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/05/17/offenders-for-a-word-part-2-do-mormons-worship-jesus/">we shall allow for more than one sense of that word</a> &#8211;  Jesus is to be worshiped, though the proper sense is specifically stated as worshiping the Father in His name. </p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/25/16,29#16">2 Ne. 25: 16, 29</a></p>
<blockquote><p>16 &#8230;until they shall be persuaded to <span style="underline;">believe in Christ, the Son of God</span>, and the atonement, which is infinite for all mankind-and when that day shall come that <span style="underline;">they shall believe in Christ, and <strong>worship the Father in his name</strong></span>, with pure hearts and clean hands, and look not forward any more for another Messiah, then, at that time, the day will come that it must needs be expedient that they should believe these things.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to <span style="underline;">believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength</span>, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out. </p></blockquote>
<p><strong>When Jesus is On Earth, He is Treated as a Separate Personality from His Father</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/19/">3 Nephi 19</a>, previously discussed, Jesus explains that the people prayed to Him only because He was present while the Father was not. He prays to the Father while they pray to Him and he explains that He wants them to be one in the same sense that He and the Father are one.</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/19/21-23#21">3 Nephi 19:21-23</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>21 <span style="underline;">Father, I pray thee</span> that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words.</p>
<p>22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, <span style="underline;">and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them</span>.</p>
<p>23 And now <span style="underline;">Father, I pray unto thee for them</span>, and also for all those who shall believe on their words, that they may believe in me, <span style="underline;">that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we [the disciples and the Godhead] may be one</span>. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/11/6-8#6">3 Nephi 11:6-8</a></p>
<blockquote><p>6 And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them:</p>
<p>7 <span style="underline;">Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name-hear ye him. </span></p>
<p>8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, <span style="underline;">they saw a Man descending out of heaven</span>&#8230; </p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Jesus Existed Before His Incarnation</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/3/14#14">Ether 3: 14</a></p>
<blockquote><p>14 Behold, <span style="underline;">I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people</span>. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed, the majority of the Boo k of Mormon enforces the idea that Jesus existed before His Incarnation. [2]</p>
<p><strong>When Jesus is in Heaven, Prior to His Incarnation, He is Treated as a Separate Personality Than His Father</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/31/11-12,15#11">2 Nephi 31:11-12, 15</a></p>
<blockquote><p>11 And <span style="underline;">the Father said</span>: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.</p>
<p>12 <span style="underline;">And also, the voice of the Son came unto me</span>, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>15 <span style="underline;">And I heard a voice from the Father, saying</span>: Yea, <span style="underline;">the words of my Beloved</span> are true and faithful. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. </p></blockquote>
<p>Compare also to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/31/18#18">3 Nephi 31:18</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Jesus Has the Title &#8220;Father&#8221; Because He Created All Things</strong></p>
<p>Often, Jesus is referred to as the Father when we are specifically talking about Jesus as Father of Heaven and Earth because he created &#8220;all things&#8221;. </p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/3/8#8">Mosiah 3:8</a></p>
<blockquote><p>8 And he shall be called <span style="underline;">Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth</span>, <span style="underline;">the Creator of all things from the beginning</span>; and his mother shall be called Mary. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/hel/14/12#12">Hel 14:12</a></p>
<blockquote><p>12 And also that ye might know of the coming of <span style="underline;">Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning</span>; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/4/7#7">Ether 4:7</a></p>
<blockquote><p>7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith <span style="underline;">Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are</span>. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/11/38-39#38">Alma 11:38-39</a></p>
<blockquote><p>38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?</p>
<p>39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, <span style="underline;">he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are</span>; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last; </p></blockquote>
<p>Compare to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/3_ne/9/15#15">3 Nephi 9:15</a></p>
<blockquote><p>15 Behold, <span style="underline;">I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are</span>. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name. </p></blockquote>
<p>See also <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/25/12#12">2 Nephi 25:12</a>; <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/hel/16/18#18">Helaman 16:18</a>;</p>
<p><strong>Jesus Fully Represents and Even Identifies as the Father</strong></p>
<p>But Jesus is also presented as being called the Father because He fully represents and even identifies as His Father. This is specifically stated as being because they share the same will. Thus they are &#8220;one God&#8221; because they have <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/25/on-three-almighties-one-moral-will-and-why-this-post-wastes-time/">one moral will</a>. The very best example of this is the incorporable <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/15/1-5#1">Mosiah 15:1-5</a> </p>
<blockquote><p>1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that <span style="underline;">God himself shall come down among the children of men</span>, and shall redeem his people.</p>
<p>2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having <span style="underline;">subjected the flesh to the <strong><em>will</em></strong> of the Father, being the Father and the Son</span>-</p>
<p>3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son-</p>
<p>4 And <strong><em><span style="underline;">they</span></em></strong><span style="underline;"> [not "He"] are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth</span>.</p>
<p>5 And thus <span style="underline;">the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit</span>, or the Son to the Father, <span style="underline;">being one God</span>, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4550#more-4550">This passage is so full of meat</a> that we&#8217;ll have to revisit it under another point later.</p>
<p>Against all odds or sense, Mosiah 15:1-5 is the passage most used to &#8220;prove&#8221; that the Book of Mormon teaches modalism. But modalism does not teach anything like this passage. The closest fit to a literal interpretation of this passage is actually Swedenborgian, not modalism. [3]</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s not really Swedenborgian either since v. 2 specifically states that Jesus is God (in v.4) due to subjecting His Flesh to the will of the Father. To the best of my knowledge, Swedenborg had no corollary to this. And this is to say nothing of the rest of the context of the Book of Mormon, which does not allow for Swedenborgian teachings at all.</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/4/12#12">Ether 4:12</a> also specifically teaches that Jesus fully represents the Father</p>
<blockquote><p>12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me-that I am; <span style="underline;">and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father</span>, I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.</p></blockquote>
<p>Compare also to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/morm/9/12#12">Morm 9:12</a> and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/3/14#14">Ether 3:14</a>;</p>
<p>The standard Mormon &#8220;explanation&#8221; for why Jesus identifies as His Father in some cases is to refer to the doctrine of Divine Investiture. I will have to deal with this in a future post.</p>
<p><strong>Jesus, Prior to His Birth, is a &#8220;Spirit Body&#8221; with a Physical Image &#8211; Not a Formless Spirit Filling Everything</strong></p>
<p>This fact comes out when the brother of Jared sees the pre-mortal Jesus and see a physical form like a man&#8217;s.</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/3/6-8#6">Ether 3:6-8</a></p>
<blockquote><p>6 And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and <span style="underline;">he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood</span>; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear.</p>
<p>7 And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth; and the Lord said unto him: Arise, why hast thou fallen?</p>
<p>8 And he saith unto the Lord: <span style="underline;">I saw the finger of the Lord</span>, and I feared lest he should smite me; for <span style="underline;">I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood</span>. </p></blockquote>
<p>It might be tempting to say that God was just taking a physical form so that the brother of Jared had something to look at. But the actual passage does not allow for that possibility because of the reason Jesus Himself gives for why the brother of Jesus saw a physical form:</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/3/13-16#13">Ether 3:13</a></p>
<blockquote><p>13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; <span style="underline;">therefore ye are brought back into my presence</span>; therefore I show myself unto you. </p></blockquote>
<p>According to this Book of Mormon passage, to be in the presence of God is to be physically standing next to Him. So the physical form of Jesus is literally His presence. The popular Christian idea that God has no physical presence, because God is everywhere present fully, is thus eliminated as a possibility. [4]</p>
<p><strong>We are Physically Created In the Image of God</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/3/13-16#13">Ether 3:15-16</a></p>
<blockquote><p>15 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. <span style="underline;">Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.</span></p>
<p>16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the <span style="underline;">body of my spirit</span>; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/1/26-27#26">Gen 1:26-27</a> is specified in the Book of Mormon as being a physical image, not just sharing having free will like God has or some other spiritualized interpretation. This is one of the most ignored aspects of the Book of Mormon, that it declared a physical God in which we are physically the image of. Compare this passage also to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/7/27#27">Mosiah 7:27</a></p>
<blockquote><p>27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that <span style="underline;">he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God</span>, and that <span style="underline;">God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood</span>, and go forth upon the face of the earth- </p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult to twist this passage to mean anything but that Gen 1:26-27&#8242;s &#8220;image of God&#8221; was meant to be a literal image, not a figurative one because it specifies that Jesus&#8217; human form was the image of man because we were in the image of God. In other words, it specifies it both ways so that you can&#8217;t miss the point.</p>
<p><strong>The Spirit of the Lord is Also Presented as Being With a Human Form</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/11/11#11">1 Nephi 11:1, 11</a></p>
<blockquote><p>1 &#8230;<span style="underline;">I was caught away in the Spirit of the Lord</span>&#8230;</p>
<p>11 And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof-<span style="underline;">for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that <strong><em>he was in the form of a man</em></strong></span>; yet nevertheless, <span style="underline;">I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord</span>; and <span style="underline;">he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another</span>. </p></blockquote>
<p>Compare this wording also with <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/1/12#12">1 Nephi 1:12</a>, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/7/14-15#14">1 Nephi 7:14-15</a>, <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/13/15#15">1 Nephi 13:15</a> and <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=%22spirit+of+the+lord%22">many others</a> were the Spirit of the Lord is referred to.</p>
<p><strong>The Idea that God Is, Was, and Always Will Be a Spirit Is Considered Heresy</strong></p>
<p>The heretical Zoramites believed that God was a spirit, is a spirit, and will always be a spirit forever. This shocks our true believers who immediately recognize the heresy involved.</p>
<p><a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/31/12-15#12">Alma 31:12-15</a></p>
<blockquote><p>12 Now, when they had come into the land, behold, to their astonishment they found that the Zoramites had built synagogues, and that they did gather themselves together on one day of the week, which day they did call the day of the Lord; and they did worship after a manner which Alma and his brethren had never beheld;</p>
<p>14 Therefore, whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying:</p>
<p>15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and <span style="underline;">we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever</span>. </p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Jesus is the Son of God Because of His Physical Birth</strong></p>
<p>I previously used <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/15/1-5#1">Mosiah 15:1-5</a>, but let&#8217;s look at it again with an eye to what we mean when we refer to Jesus as the Son of God</p>
<blockquote><p>1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.</p>
<p>2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son-</p>
<p>3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; <span style="underline;">and the Son, because of the flesh</span>; thus becoming the Father and Son- </p></blockquote>
<p>Since the rest of the Christian world considers Jesus the only Begotten because He was Begotten before the world began [5], this passage is significant theologically and separates the Book of Mormon view of Christology from the rest of the Christian worlds.</p>
<p><strong>What The Book of Mormon Doesn&#8217;t Teach</strong></p>
<p>What the Book of Mormon doesn&#8217;t say is as important as what it does say. It does not use the phrase &#8220;of one substance.&#8221; It does not tell us that Jesus and the Father are &#8220;one person.&#8221; It does not tell us God is a formless spirit. It does not tell us that God is equally present everywhere. It does not develop an Athanasius-like formula of &#8220;one God.&#8221; There is no mention of &#8220;persons&#8221; vs. &#8220;beings.&#8221; In fact, it does not use any creedal phrases at all.</p>
<p><strong>What the Book of Mormon Doesn&#8217;t Confront</strong></p>
<p>On the other hand, the Book of Mormon never actually deny any popular view of God directly. Though clearly not Modalistic or Trinitarian, nevertheless, only a careful parser ever feels their modalistic or Trinitarian views are deeply threatened by the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon did not force people to confront their false views of God right away but instead left plenty that a Modalist or a Trinitarian would relate to or feel comfortable with, even while preparing them for something else later.</p>
<p><strong>Full Analysis</strong></p>
<p>The following chart summarizes the relationship between what the Book of Mormon actually teaches compared to the theologies of Joseph Smith&#8217;s and our day:</p>
<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top"><strong>BoM Doctrine</strong></td>
<td width="83" valign="top"><strong>Modalism</strong></td>
<td width="116" valign="top"><strong>Trinitarianism</strong></td>
<td width="84" valign="top"><strong>Tritheism</strong></td>
<td width="120" valign="top"><strong>Swedenborgian</strong></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus is God</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus is the Son of God, the Only Begotten of His Father</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">Figurative</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">Figurative</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus is Worthy of Worship</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">When Jesus is On Earth, He is Treated as a Separate Personality from His Father</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus Existed Before His Incarnation</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">When Jesus is in Heaven, Prior to His Incarnation, He is Treated as a Separate Personality Than His Father</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Maybe*</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus Has the Title &#8220;Father&#8221; Because He Created All Things</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus Fully Represents and Even Identifies as the Father</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">Figurative</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus, Prior to His Birth, is a &#8220;Spirit Body&#8221; with a Physical Image &#8211; Not a Formless Spirit Filling Everything</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Maybe</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">We are Physically Created In the Image of God</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Maybe</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">The Spirit of the Lord is Also Presented as Being With a Human Form</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Maybe</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">The Idea that God Is, Was, and Always Will Be a Spirit Is Considered Heresy</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Maybe</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Jesus is the Son of God Because of His Physical Birth</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Maybe</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="277" valign="top">Eschewing creedal formulas and language</td>
<td width="83" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="116" valign="top">No</td>
<td width="84" valign="top">Yes</td>
<td width="120" valign="top">Yes</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p>* Clearly Trinitarianism does teach that in heaven Jesus and the Father are seperate personalities. However, there seems to be at least some discomfort over something as blatant as 2 Ne 31:11-15 where Jesus and the Father both talk to a prophet from heaven. So I listed this one as &#8220;maybe.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Conclusions</strong></p>
<p>In conclusion [6], we can now easily see that The Book of Mormon doctrine of deity is not fully Modalistic, nor Trinitarian, nor Tritheistic but does share some attributes with each. Each might even be considered an appropriate approximation of the nature of God, to some degree, but none is definitive. In reality, the Book of Mormon denies all of the popular existing theologies about God. [7] </p>
<p><strong>Notes:</strong></p>
<p>[1] One poster once quoted Melodie Moench Charles to me as, in his view, a fair evaluation of the Book of Mormon&#8217;s doctrine of deity: &#8220;Although modalism is the best description for Book of Mormon theology generally, it is not apt in every instance. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that Book of Mormon authors were intentionally constructing a theology that would fit any previous or future model or label. Nor did they seem concerned about making sure that the theology of any one part of the book was always consistent with the theology of other parts.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do not disagree with this analysis. In essence, Charles tells us that the Book of Mormon teaches Modalism, except for the parts that don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Likewise, I feel that any of the following statements are also equally true:</p>
<p>The Book of Mormon teaches Trinitarianism, except for the parts that don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The Book of Mormon teaches Tritheism, except for the parts that don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Charles wrote her article, &#8220;Book of Mormon Christology&#8221;, as a response to how Mormons often, in her view, retrofit their doctrines of Deity onto the Book of Mormon. A point that is often valid. Yet she never realizes she&#8217;s fallen into the same trap herself, ignoring all evidence that runs counter to her theory of Nephite theology.</p>
<p>[2] Charles uses Ether 3:14 as the sole nod to the anti-modalism inherent on the Book of Mormon throughout: &#8220;On one point the Book of Mormon&#8217;s christology differs from what early Christian modalists believed. Although Jesus&#8217; description of himself as Father and Son in Ether 3:14 is thoroughly modalistic, its context is not. In this same verse Jesus says, &#8220;I was prepared from the foundations of the world to redeem my people.&#8221; This, coupled with his identifying himself as Jesus Christ a millennium before his birth, suggests a &#8220;pre-existent&#8221; Christ. Always concerned to preserve the notion of the unity of God, early Christian modalists rejected the idea that Christ existed apart from his father prior to his incarnation. They would not have attributed to Christ any of God&#8217;s activity prior to Jesus&#8217; birth. For example, they interpreted John 1:1-18 as describing the Word&#8217;s creation of the world allegorically, not as Christ&#8217;s literal pre-existent activity (Kelly 1960, 120).&#8221; Charles in &#8220;Book of Mormon Christology.&#8221; It is unclear why she ignored all the other anti-modalistic statements found throughout the Book of Mormon.</p>
<p>[3] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modalism">Wikipedia explains</a>: &#8220;Both Michael Servetus and Emanuel Swedenborg have been interpreted as being proponents of Modalism, however, neither describes God as appearing in three modes. Both describe God as the One Divine Person, Jesus Christ, who has a Divine Soul of Love, Divine Mind of Truth, and Divine Body of Activity. Jesus, through a process of uniting his human form to the Divine, became entirely One with His Divine Soul from the Father to the point of having no distinction of personality.” This is not classic modalism. In fact, the only thing it has in common with modalism is the lack of three “persons.”</p>
<p>[4] This doesn&#8217;t mean that God isn&#8217;t &#8220;omni-present.&#8221; <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/03/21/i-have-never-been-omnipotent-but-i-have-loved/">It just means that that word &#8220;omni-present&#8221; means something other than God being physically present everywhere, as some Christians assume.</a> </p>
<p>Note: In the comments below, Aaron pointed out that Evagelicals make a distiction between physical presence and personal presence and thus, using an Evagelical point of view, it is possible for them to believe in a physical presence of God distinct from His personal presence.</p>
<p>Mormons make a distinction between their belief that God is everywhere present, which is understood in a spiritual sense, but not everywhere physically present. See the comments for further discussion.</p>
<p>Thus the two points of view converge moreso that I expected.</p>
<p>[5] &#8220;One of the creeds says that Christ is the Son of God &#8216;begotten, not created&#8221;; and it adds &#8216;begotten by his Father before all worlds.&#8217; Will you please get it quite clear that this has nothing to do with the fact that when Christ was born on earth as a man, that man was the son of a virgin?&#8221; (<em>Mere Christianity</em>, p. 138)</p>
<p>[6] I apologize if I missed your favorite verse or excluded a reference to something that I should have included. Collecting all the statements in the Book of Mormon about the Doctrine of Deity together in one place isn&#8217;t as easy as it looks to. I&#8217;ll have to rewrite this article after I next read the Book of Mormon and find more passages that develop its collective doctrine of deity.</p>
<p>[7] As does the Bible.</p>
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		<title>Our Foundation Stories Part II: The Meaning of the First Vision</title>
		<link>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/04/our-foundation-stories-part-ii-the-meaning-of-the-first-vision/</link>
		<comments>http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/04/our-foundation-stories-part-ii-the-meaning-of-the-first-vision/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Nilsson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[joseph]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[new order mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[orthodox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prophets]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[restoration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[scripture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[smith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Joseph Smith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[meaning]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonmatters.org/?p=491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now that we&#8217;ve discussed the nature of the First Vision, what did it mean? There are many meanings, the most vital being those which each person can discover for herself or himself. Here are those we are most familiar with, because they have been written and spoken about at length in the official media of the institutional LDS Church: 1. The heavens are not closed. Revelation continues in our day. Closely related to this meaning is: 2. God loves his children. 3. The Father and the Son are physically separate. Closely related to this meaning is: 4. The Father and the Son are corporeal (have bodies). 5. All churches on the earth in 1820 are corrupt. Closely related to this meaning is 6. The Restoration has begun And/Or 7. Joseph Smith is a prophet. Meaning 1 is quite obvious from Joseph&#8217;s account, although a minority interpretation has insisted from the First Vision that the vision itself reopened the heavens, which had been closed since the apostasy. The vision provides no evidence for this view. Meaning 2 is not stated, but is an implied meaning deduced from 1 and fits with our other beliefs about God&#8217;s character. Meaning 3 is also [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p align="center"><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-492" title="anderson_sacred_grove_hr" src="http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/anderson_sacred_grove_hr.jpg" alt="" width="555" height="596" /></p>
<p align="center">Now that we&#8217;ve discussed <a href="http://mormonmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-first-vision-or-the-first-visit/" target="_blank">the nature of the First Vision</a>, what did it mean?</p>
<p align="center">
<p style="text-align: left;">There are many meanings, the most vital being those which each person can discover for herself or himself.  Here are those we are most familiar with, because they have been written and spoken about at length in the official media of the institutional LDS  Church:<span id="more-491"></span></p>
<p align="center">
<p style="text-align: left;">1.  The heavens are not closed. Revelation continues in our day.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Closely related to this meaning is:</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">2. God loves his      children.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">3. The Father and the Son      are physically separate.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Closely related to this meaning is:</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">4. The Father and the Son      are corporeal (have bodies).</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">5. All churches on the      earth in 1820 are corrupt.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Closely related to this meaning is</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">6. The Restoration has      begun</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">And/Or</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">7. Joseph Smith is a prophet.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 1 is quite obvious from Joseph&#8217;s account, although a minority interpretation has insisted from the First Vision that the vision itself reopened the heavens, which had been closed since the apostasy.  The vision provides no evidence for this view.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 2 is not stated, but is an implied meaning deduced from 1 and fits with our other beliefs about God&#8217;s character. Meaning 3 is also fairly obvious from Joseph&#8217;s account, at least his 1838 one.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 4 I cannot defend based on the accounts Joseph has left us.  I believe it is a back-reading from a section of the Doctrine and Covenants which is superimposed on our interpretations of the vision.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 5 is clear from the <a href="http://www.boap.org/LDS/History/HTMLHistory/v1c1history.html" target="_blank">accounts Joseph left</a>, especially the 1838 one.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Meanings 6 and 7 I cannot defend from the text, unless one takes Joseph&#8217;s statement that &#8220;many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time&#8221; refers to coming events like the Restoration and his role in it.  I cannot defend this interpretation based on subsequent events like Joseph&#8217;s account of his 1823 vision of Moroni, wherein Joseph is apparently given his first Restoration &#8220;task&#8221; with no inkling that he was praying for anything but forgiveness from his sins.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">There are other meanings which can be unpacked from Joseph&#8217;s accounts, especially when one integrates the earlier accounts with the version published in the Pearl of Great Price:</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">1.  Prophets sin and seek forgiveness.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Closely related to this meaning is:</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">2. God forgives sins      readily.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">3. Spiritual experience      confirms conclusions we have already reached.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">4. Deity speaks in      language familiar to the listener (King James English).</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 1 is often trivialized in the LDS Church. The language of sin has fallen into disuse among us.  Prophets do not sin.  Instead, they have &#8220;frailties&#8221;, &#8220;weaknesses&#8221;, &#8220;shortcomings&#8221;, and make &#8220;mistakes.&#8221;  The First Vision reminds us that all humankind sins.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 2 is a comforting one.  Joseph&#8217;s sins are forgiven.  He is not told to do works of penance, unless one takes the Lord forbidding him to join any other churches as a punishment for sin.  If so, Joseph skirted this commandment, as he attended Methodist meetings in 1828!</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 3 is more interesting, because here Joseph contradicts himself in the various accounts.  In the 1832 account, he states that his conviction from reading the scriptures was that the true church could not be on the earth. The 1838 account ,on the other hand, makes it sound as if he believes that God just might tell him, for example, that the Universalists have it right, or that the Presbyterians are God&#8217;s church.  I tend to believe that Joseph at the very least, strongly suspected that God&#8217;s church was not on the earth. He uses the conditional, &#8220;if&#8221;, to describe the question which drove him into the grove.  <strong>If</strong> Christ&#8217;s church is on the earth, which one is it?</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Meaning 4 is a comforting one to end on.  God will speak to us in language we understand.  If my primary reading matter, like Joseph&#8217;s, was the Elizabethan English of the King James Version of the Bible, and that is how I believe God speaks, God will speak to me that way.  Conversely, if my thought world is informed by 21st-century American English vernacular, seasoned by occasional scientific reading, and a love of music and nature, God may speak to me through those means.</p>
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<p style="text-align: left;">What meanings do you find in the First Vision story?</p>
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