I had the opportunity of late to score a read from a family member’s library. This family member is an activist on the fringe set of fundamentalism and preparedness, dabbling into the occult and mysticism as well—happy times! I happened to return it so this will be a bit rusty on the documentation side. The book is called Awakening to Our Awful Situation by Jack Monnet. It even comes with a nifty little CD that explains how the United States took down the World Trade Center. If you want to find this book, you can buy it at the Chevron gas station in Cove Fort at the intersection of I-15 and I-70. Hinckley’s father/grandfather? Ira used to live there in that godforsaken outpost—it’s like a must see for the Utah family vacation—but I digress.
Awakening is another book in a long list of LDS fringe conspiracy literature that begins with heavy firepower from our modern scriptures in setting up the justification for conspiracy by an appeal to the warning of secret combinations, but usually ends up going off the cliff towards the end. There is enough good stuff here methinks that I may esteem the Book of Mormon too lightly. We like to give it the round robin lately with its appeal to Christianity, thanks to Stevenson and Millet, but we are still probably amiss at the lack of attention we give to the politics of Satan. A list of secret combination scriptures should suffice.
We shall start in sequence:
- Moses 5:51 “For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination their works were in the dark . . .”
- Ether 11:15 “And it came to pass that there arose a rebellion among the people, because of that secret combination which was built up to get power and gain. . .”
- Helaman 2:8 “. . .and how that it was his object to murder, and also that it was the object of all those who belonged to his band to murder, and to rob, and to gain power, (and this was their secret plan, and their combination)
- Helaman 3:23 “. . .there was continual peace established in the land, all save it were the secret combinations which Gadianton the robber had established in the more settled parts of the land, which at that time were not known unto those who were at the head of government; therefore they were not destroyed out of the land.
- Helaman 6:38 “. . . the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
- 3 Nephi 7:6 “And the regulations of the government were destroyed, because of the secret combination . . .”
Relating to our day:
- Ether 8: 23-24 “Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, . . . when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you . . .”
- 2 Nephi 26:22 “And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things . . .”
- D&C 42:64 “And even now, let him that goeth to the east teach them that shall be converted to flee to the west, and this in consequence of that which is coming on the earth, and of secret combinations.”
Monnet then proceeds to elaborate on well-documented historical challenges to orthodoxy about the Federal Reserve, World War I, and the aftermath as well-worn historical examples of modern secret combinations. I mean, if it’s likely according to the Book of Mormon that we have them, why not elaborate? The book relies heavily upon Carrol Quigley’s, Tragedy and Hope, a conspiratorial staple for decades since Quigley describes himself as an insider who got out (just found out that Bill Clinton is a BIG fan of Quigley). The mining of this book, along with other LDS conspiratorial favorites (Skousen, Ezra Taft Benson) leads me to inquire within the pages of the resourced books, since they seem more authentic. Yet, it’s nice (at least for the first part of the book) to have a paraphrased compilation that pulls it all together and modernizes it a bit. For me, it was fairly convincing and challenging to my historical/political consignment that I have furthered my pursuits into this hot topic. Some of the javelins of conspiracy in the book were as follows:
- Early banking, aristocratic, and high bourgeoisie meddling was commonplace in Europe during the 19th Century and increased after 1830 (hmmmm). They found during the Napoleonic wars that they could make money peddling death, and that it helped to give them more control over people and nations. Thus spawned the American Civil War, the Prussian wars of the 1870’s (Second Reich), and the various British skirmishes hop scotching all over the globe.
- Well-known banking and business families: Rockefeller, Carnegie, and Morgan families helped to create the Federal Reserve in 1913 after the Panic of 1911, giving them control of the money supply and created a sort of shadow government. WWI, the Income Tax amendment, and the League of Nations were an early attempt at global government. Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism is a more extensive treatment of this era.
- They repeated the same thing in the 1930’s (FED creating an economic pandemic as a pretext for war, as a pretext for war profiteering and global control through the United Nations).
- These banking entities funnel their money into not-for-profit foundations that fund the Council on Foreign Relations, the Carnegie, Rockefeller, and Ford foundations. These foundations pretty much fund the testing and curriculum standards in public school, and are the funding and granting mechanisms for the modern scientific discovery process. They basically fund and encourage scientific discovery ONLY in areas that further their agenda (atheism, new world order-ism, sexual hedonism, etc.).
- Through their shadow control of the civil/bureaucratic and sometimes political elements of Washington, the drug war in the 1970’s-today was engineered to take control of the drug trade and profit from it, not destroy the drug trade.
- 9-11 was engineered and orchestrated by this group to bring us to war, oil profiteer, and bring the roguish nations of the Middle East under the New World Order. Iraq is also part of this effort (the book doesn’t separate Iraq Gulf War I from Iraq Shock and Awe II). The added benefit is deficits for the USA, thus a crashing economy, thus a world currency and international rescue and control, and voila, Euromexamericanada, UN dominance with the shadow satanic government behind it all.
This is where the book starts to go off the mark for me. I’m not altogether convinced that these secret organizations (Council of Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, etc.) have got it all put together and that there are no surprises. Sometimes the dots are connected too easily with little ambiguity or mistake. I’m also a little skeptical of well-worn conspiracy when the Book of Mormon indicates that it will be SECRET. There is also little, if scant, acknowledgement of the rise of radical Islam, and if it is noticed, it is cursorily brushed aside as a pawn of the great world bankers to bring down the United States or to be used as a big stick to bring the Middle East under the wing. It seems as if every world event has to fit the 1960’s Cold War template as well. I, for one, can believe in competing conspiracies that sometimes get in the way of each other, rise and fall in importance, are replaced, or face obsolescence. Of course, the Book of Mormon shows one big conspiracy and so maybe I’m wrong. Monnet has to circumscribe everything into the thesis/antithesis/synthesis of the dialectic between communism and capitalism as a distraction to worldwide domination by global corporate fascism and working class socialism where left wings and right wings are chicken meat to a global elite intent on having the whole cow. While I do not doubt those intentions and have begun to transcend traditional politics now looking at policy more through the lens of sovereignty and liberty, I do doubt that they have drawn and quartered every world event. Were I to make a comprehensive list of modern secret combinations, undoubtedly there is probably little honor among thieves here. A partial list would suffice and show that almost any party to modern world power is probably to some extent or another, a secret combination (murder/war to get gain/power in secret):
- The Mafias (Italian, Chinese, Russian, etc.)
- Drug Cartels, Street Gangs, Pornography Peddlers, Prostitution Rings
- World Banking Elites and Old World aristocracies, various Federal Reserves
- New World Order Groups (Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, etc., UN committee groups, World Bank, World Court, IMF, academia)
- Global Communism through (World Worker Party, Critical Theory, Cultural/sexual revolution, International ANSWER, Chinese Communist Party, South American Communism, academia AGAIN)
- Various traditional nationalist groups (neo-Nazism, neo-Russian nationalism, KKK, Aryan Nations)
- Islamic Fascism, Islamic Radicalism, Islamic Natioanlism
- Factions of the Democratic Party (Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Clinton)
- Factions of the Republican Party (Ike, Nixon, Bush, Bush Jr.)
- Big Oil, Big Defense Contractor, Big K Street, Big Saudi Royalty
- Various and covert black ops sub agencies (CIA, IRS, DOD, DOJ, FBI, NSA, FEMA, Homeland Security)
- The Catholic Church
- African Warlords, Indian Thuggee cult, Navajo Skinwalkers
- The Mountain Meadows Perpetrators, Danites, and Church Security
- Haiti
- My Grandmother’s Enchilada Recipe
As you can see, unless they have a big club meeting once a week at Satan’s house, I highly doubt they all work hand-in-hand. I suspect this is where the book goes of course and denies itself to the austere shelves of the Deseret Book. I felt like a lawyer who was constantly objecting to the judge on the grounds of speculation. It was, however, an interesting read, and in these times, I enjoy getting my hands on everything I can because of all of the weird economic coincidences and the event dominoes that have been falling in line (this book was published two years ago). As well, since my faith in mankind has kind of been shattered lately, I have been putting my trust more in the arms of the scriptures, the Priesthood, any my own inspiration. So I guess it has its side benefits. Merry global conspiracy day to you all and a happy Greater Depression!
Comments 48
Peter,
You hint at something which has made me dismissive of these kind of religiously-tinged conspiracy theories–they do not know what to do with religious believers who are opposed to their brand of religion (Islam). The motivating force in most of these conspiracy theories is greed and secularism, one-world government, etc. It seems a little worn and not to make sense of what motivates radical Muslims. I have a hard time seeing radical Muslims as a tool of anyone else, especially secularists.
You don’t have to be a skeptic to see the confession of David Rockafeller in his own memoirs. And I quote:
“Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
Refute that. You can’t because it’s his own words.
Oh yeah, lest I’m accused of making it up, here’s the book with the quote:
http://www.amazon.com/David-Rockefeller-Memoirs/dp/0679405887
David Rockafeller, Memoirs, page 405
This is why you don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist, because all you have to do is read what these people are blatantly saying themselves.
Was this guy a BYU professor. Last I heard, he was handing out pamphlets about this sort of thing around temple square.
Of course, one of the Skousen clan is prominently featured on the cover. Thank goodness we hear so little from these guy nowadays. Maybe Royal’s textual analysis of the Book of Mormon can redeem the family name a little.
Wasn’t there a YouTube clip going around last year with Mitt Romney and some right-wing radio host talking about how they were huge fans of the Skousens?
Author
http://www.archivepublishers.com/monnett.html
Jack Monnett
Jack Monnett is a contemporary historian who particularly writes about educational themes as they intertwine with Latter-day Saint history. He holds a Ph.D. in Educational History from the University of Utah and also acts as the CEO of Deseret Academy-a private K-12 academy in Salt Lake City incorporating an LDS curriculum and founded upon LDS educational principles.
“Wasn’t there a YouTube clip going around last year with Mitt Romney and some right-wing radio host talking about how they were huge fans of the Skousens?”
Yeah, it was Glenn Beck. Which is why I’m going to say au contraire to those of you who think that Conspiracisim among LDS is just fringe. Beck is one of their star proponents (3rd most listened to talk show in America). He’s big time, folks. He has pushed Skousen’s Naked Communist and Naked Capitalist many a time on his show.
So you’re saying Glenn Beck isn’t fringe? Because he seems pretty crazy to me, CNN deal notwithstanding. (I admit, though, that I can’t stomach listening to him for more than about 10 seconds once a year, so mine is not an informed judgement.) In my experience, however, conspiracy theorists in the Church are way fringe.
Hey, you forgot the Bilderberg Group, Bohemian Club, the Greys and the Reptilians. (The first two are “real” and their threat of world conspiracy is well….
***BLAM****
Author
“So you’re saying Glenn Beck isn’t fringe? Because he seems pretty crazy to me”
Well, Sam, if you’re measuring fringe by craziness, I’m probably going to agree with you. So does Glenn, btw. If your measuring fringe by how many people believe, I don’t think its so fringe anymore. It’s becoming more mainstream.
Yes, yes, I’ll admint, I’m a Glenn Beckaholic. I’m an insider. I listen every day. Prettty sick, huh? People need to get past his uber conservative creds. I don’t agree with half of his take on politics Nothwithstanding, his credibility is in the economy right now. No one in the media has quite a pulse on understanding the economy and where its heading as he does.
I suspect the biggest secret combination we’ve got going is lazy and apathetic American voters. They outnumber all those groups put together!
Peter, the common factor in these conspiracy theories is class hatred. The bankers are the bad guys. In real life, this just isn’t the case. The bankers are just living their lives and trying to make as successful a living as they can, and they are good at it.
Secret combinations surely exist but not on New World Order scale. If a New World Order is brought about it is because people begin to see the value in approaching problems common to humanity from a common perspective.
The class hatred that spawns conspiracy theories blaming bankers for seizing control of the world is just as much a target of scriptural criticism as are the rich who grind upon the face of the poor. Neither the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, or even Ezra Taft Benson’s own talk on pride spare the poor who hate the rich because of their riches (and through the riches, their influence as a natural consequence of those riches) from condemnation under the same principle that those scriptures condemn the rich who do not share of their wealth with the poor.
I tend to agree with John F. here. As the old saying goes, “When two or more are gathered in my name, there is L… no wait, there is a conspiracy.”
Groups of common interest form together to pursue that interest. It may be for good purposes or bad.
I’d urge anyone to be wary of these massive conspiracy theories. Many have their roots in anti-semitism. Further, the notion that control on such a broad-scale could be exerted by any handful of groups seems a little silly to me. Real-life is much messier than that, I think.
Many dismiss conspiracy theories as irrational, when in fact, they are hyper-rational. They are attempts to impose rationality, logic, to processes that are messy and outcomes that are unpleasant.
As for Peter’s list of secret combinations, I have to take issue with some organizations – like academia. Anyone who has spent anytime at a university knows that “academia” is hardly organized. And factions of the Democratic/Republican parties? Really? How are any of those politicians you listed involved in secret combinations? I’d be interested to see explanations – is it all about League of Nations, UN, Vietnam and dynasties?
And why no mention of right-wing militia groups or Christian fundamentalists?
How come none of these groups look like us? They’re either rich (bankers, big oil), godless (Commies), or brown (Haiti, Voodoo, Skinwalkers, etc.). What about those secret combinations that arise along the Wasatch Front, like Impact Training, or Mormon Fundamentalists? These more innocuous-seeming combinations seem like they’re far more dangerous to us as Latter-Day Saints than many of the ones you list.
You got my mouth watering that that enchilada shout out, though. Those sound tasty.
If we’re talking about secret conspiracies, you can’t forget the Illuminati.
Skousen is an interesting guy. Last time I was in Deseret Books, they had copies of several of his books (including, to my surprise, the Naked Communist). He was the keynote speak at a Stake Youth Conference fireside when I was a lad. Too bad I can’t remember a word he said — I’m sure it was nutso gold. I was too focused his really hot grandaughter! Oh to be 14 again . . . 🙂
Cows have wings?
True and odd: Cleon Skousen was a member of the ward I attended between ages 8 and 19. I had no idea who he was growing up, except as the old man who said “Amen” really loud at the close of all the prayers.
Then on my mission, I met some fringey-type members who had all of his political and theological works prominently displayed on their bookshelf. Thus began my introduction to the man behind the loud Amens.
“What about those secret combinations that arise along the Wasatch Front, like Impact Training . . . ?”
To me, these folks are scary — they are the true “alternative voices” we should be worried about. As I understand them, they are run by LDS folks who, in hopes of attracting active members, use large dallops of Mormon-speak. Apparently, just a few years back, the popularity of such groups in Utah so spiked that the Church made an official statement about them. (SL Trib. story: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mormon46.html). I had some people close to me attend the Harmony Institute. They had a positive experience, but from the experiences they described and their rehearsed speech, it was way too close to brainwashing for my taste.
Any time an author deems it necessary to list his professional title/credentials as part of his name on the cover of a book (i.e. “Jack Monnett, PhD“), it’s cause for suspicion.
Christoper said, “Any time an author deems it necessary to list his professional title/credentials as part of his name on the cover of a book (i.e. “Jack Monnett, PhD“), it’s cause for suspicion.”
I agree when the doctorate doesn’t relate to the subject in question. Obviously Monnett’s doctorate clearly represents that he can think thru the reality of these conspiracies a lot better than us Joe Schmos :-). Nevertheless, this hubris is frequently found in every day life. Why pay so much for some letters after one’s name if it doesn’t grant you authority in everyday conversation?
Peter,
The one argument I’ve heard from him on economic issues was pretty bad (c’mon, the stimulus package is bad enough, but require that it be on a debit card that has to be used within three months? the money’ll come too late to keep us from a recession, most people will spend it anyway and, even if it were to happen, I could use said debit card to buy groceries I’d buy anyway, and put the money I otherwise would have spent in the bank). The best personal finance people out there right now are NPR’s Marketplace Money; back when I had a car, I loved to listen to Marketplace, too, but I don’t have an hour a day for that podcast. The NY Times has a great business section, as does the W$J (if you ignore its editorial page). Also, Conde Nast Porfolio is a great business magazine, and their daily email quite often has interesting things to say. I’d go to each and every one of those sources before I even thought about cable news (or network news) or political talk radio people for insight on the economy.
Christoper said, “Any time an author deems it necessary to list his professional title/credentials as part of his name on the cover of a book (i.e. “Jack Monnett, PhD“), it’s cause for suspicion.” I’d be interested to read a book by Jack Monnett, GED, provided spell check was used.
The problem I have with conspiracy theories is that they are not the most logical explanation for the crap that happens. Laziness and stupidity seem far more likely culprits than intelligence, cooperation against all odds and differing interests, and excellent planning & organization. Every time crap happens (you name the crap), there’s an element of lazy & stupid enabling it, even when there is an actual conspiracy afoot. Conspiracies are fleeting and tend to be bungled. Secret combinations are usually only one or the other. It’s mutually exclusive. If it’s a “combination,” the secrecy leaks out. If it’s a “secret,” there’s no combining. If Satan’s working on some master plan as it says in the BOM, I have to think the evil humans are mere pawns who don’t understand their roles in the anti-plan. They think they’re doing whatever the thing is they are interested in (e.g. racial supremacy, greed, power, hot babes).
UFO Skeptic: Your Rockefeller quote is: “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” But, what did he really just admit to? Furthering international banking, even if it had short term negative effects to one country (his own)? Oooh, I’m shakin’. He was being a visionary. His admission is just pride at his own accomplishment, stating in a way so as to give it the most impact possible and to shake people up.
RE: “But, what did he really just admit to? Furthering international banking, even if it had short term negative effects to one country (his own)? Oooh, I’m shakin’. He was being a visionary. His admission is just pride at his own accomplishment, stating in a way so as to give it the most impact possible and to shake people up.”
He admitted to conspiring to undermine the best interests of the United States consitution and way of life in favor of globalism. That is High Treason. Thats what he admitted to. So I gather you are also a gadianton robber then since you see him as “visionary”?
So is it Achmed’s Razor in reality?
Not a gadianton robber. Just a capitalist working for a global company that can see beyond my own country’s borders. I say visionary because what he claimed he did was favor long-term, international objectives over short-term, national interests. Didn’t the European Union basically do the same thing Rockefeller claimed to do? By your definition, anyone who wants us to embrace environmental initiatives is committing high treason. Green doesn’t come cheap except to undeveloped countries. The more developed your country, the more disadvantageous the changes are. Therefore, the US has more to lose than it stands to gain. Shall we get a subpeona for Al Gore?
Author
“As for Peter’s list of secret combinations, I have to take issue with some organizations – like academia. Anyone who has spent anytime at a university knows that “academia” is hardly organized.”
Toche, but in terms of the conspiracy, they are manipulated by their grant handlers. That’s the best I got there. Part of this list is intended to be toungue-in-cheek.
“And factions of the Democratic/Republican parties? Really?” Again, tounge-in-cheek. Do you really think W gets together with his father and they worship the devil? We all know its Scooby Doo.
“And why no mention of right-wing militia groups or Christian fundamentalists?” I listed them (neo-nazis, natioalists,neo-Nazism, neo-Russian nationalism, KKK, Aryan Nations).
“How come none of these groups look like us? They’re either rich (bankers, big oil), godless (Commies), or brown (Haiti, Voodoo, Skinwalkers, etc.).”
You forgot the Indian Thugee Cult (Watch Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom).
The trick to a secret combination, you have to murder to get gain, and its all done in secret. Do impact trainings or FLDS cults murder? They may rape income and little girls, so maybe its close.
“Not a gadianton robber. Just a capitalist working for a global company that can see beyond my own country’s borders.”
Hawkgrrl, capitalism is the telestial best we have, but I wouldn’t embrace it. It’s clearly inferior to consecration. I don’t mind capitalism, invisible hand, etc. Don’t undermine our sovreignty to get it. The Constitution is more important to me than earning a fast buck.
Reading a Cleon Skousen talk about the atonement was something of a watershed event for me on my mission. I didn’t know who he was, but he made the atonement come alive for me in a really exciting way. I was surprised to later find out that he was something of a fringe speculator. But for at least 10 years, my testimony of the atonement was based on Cleon Skousen’s explanation. Now I have no understanding of the atonement… sometimes it seems to me like a solution in search of a problem.
“capitalism is the telestial best we have, but I wouldn’t embrace it. It’s clearly inferior to consecration.” I don’t consider that clear at all. I have been told that by church leaders, and I trust them, but I would call it anything but clear since every time it has ever been practiced it has either been a total disaster or we were given insufficient information about why it was successful (Enoch).
But my point had nothing to do with capitalism (we are a capitalist nation), and everything to do with the belief that it’s not high treason to put global interests ahead of short-term US interests.
My basic problem with believing any “conspiracy” theory is that the accusers assume that government is organized. Now that is really funny.
RE: “Not a gadianton robber. Just a capitalist working for a global company that can see beyond my own country’s borders. I say visionary because what he claimed he did was favor long-term, international objectives over short-term, national interests.”
Oh, I get it. Dollar for the short term, Amero for the long term. National borders for short term, till we can open them up to be overrun by Mexico and we can merge with them and with Canada so we can all be equally poor, so much so that they have all the jobs at McDonalds and we have no jobs at all. Constitution for the short term till we can dump it for UN Charter for long term. Acknowledge bill of rights for short term in favor of long term vision of totalitarian rule by a Globalist Commie government. And once that’s established, we can finally be done with this short term vision those darn dead white guys named the founding fathers had. Hey, and while were at it, lets all just vote for Lucifer and get rid of this stupid free agency stuff we have, so he can save everybody and nobody can be lost. That darn plan of Jehovah was so short sighted. We need the long term plan of Lucifer to make sure that everybody can be saved and equally poor and equally robots, to be acted on, and not able to act. Darn those rights. Darn that free agency.
I like your style, Peter. Plenty of sarcasm mixed in with some confessions, some questions, and some provocations. I get (forwarded) email periodically from extended family members filled with conspiracy theory. I ask them to stop on the grounds that I just don’t have time for it — I’m too busy trying to do my thing. It subsides for a while and then it picks up again. When asked why I resist these ideas, I say almost verbatim what hawkgrrrl said above. It boils down to Occam’s razor. Don’t ascribe to (conspiratorial) malice what you can ascribe to laziness, stupidity, incompetence, ignorance, fatigue, or any other number of base human foibles. Ray, “Achmed’s Razor” was pure genius.
I’ve come in here late and wish I was able to add my two cents as we went along.
I love the post Peter and the subject matter. There are a few things I agree with and a few things I disagree with. I like your selection of scriptures.
As an anarchist I think I would have a few things to add here. We must base our perceptions in reality.
And as Mormons we must be morally absolute.
We cannot let war criminals (the highest crime) rule us…
Lets fight the stuff we know and have evidence for:
-The Military Industrial Complex and Arms Trade. More is spent now on weapons then during the Cold War. $2.3 Trillion dollars of tax payers money is unaccounted for by the Pentagon each year!
-The Government for importing drugs into the US from the 1960’s to the 1980’s where the players who were involved are now at the Carlyle group, Lockhead Martin and other Fascist based corporations.
-Corporate power structure which are infact just “private tyrannies”.
There are many more…but these 3 are the main threats to our liberty and peace.
I liked Ezra Taft Benson and co. because they had the guts to speak out about illegitimate power although they may have got it wrong or sounded cooky. The fact is…we need leaders and people in the church that are peacemakers and want peace rather than war and are willing to challenge criminals and corruption in high places by taking action rather than just talking about it.
“Hawkgrrl, capitalism is the telestial best we have, but I wouldn’t embrace it. It’s clearly inferior to consecration. I don’t mind capitalism, invisible hand, etc. Don’t undermine our sovreignty to get it. The Constitution is more important to me than earning a fast buck.”
Well said Peter…Capitalism is a good system but there are better out there. It is wasteful, unsustainable and the current system does not have an “invisible hand” as evidenced by the G7 meeting the other day. Adam Smith was pre-capitalist and I think if he and Jefferson were alive today they would be sorely depressed with the current state of things considering the things they abhorred and fought against.
The Consitution of the United States is a fantastic legal document and should not be abandoned for mammon but should be built upon by stalwart individuals. I am with Jefferson…with every generation the consitution should be updated by the people and for the people….NOT CORPORATIONS.
And Hawgrrrl…I agree that we should care for all the people of the world…but doing it through opprasive corporations is never going to achieve this goal.
Author
Hawgrrl “I don’t consider that clear at all. I have been told that by church leaders, and I trust them, but I would call it anything but clear since every time it has ever been practiced it has either been a total disaster or we were given insufficient information about why it was successful (Enoch).”
It worked very well in 1870-1890, but was abandoned by the Church in Utah to gain statehood. It’s clear in the scriptures, for most of the Brethren its clear (Hinckleys’ eschewing of the monster homes and two cars). It’s the practice by the wider Church that is making it unclear to you. Boy has THAT worked out well. We’re sure on our way to Zion in all of these mushy white Mormon suburbs in the west.
“But my point had nothing to do with capitalism (we are a capitalist nation), and everything to do with the belief that it’s not high treason to put global interests ahead of short-term US interests.”
It’s not global treason to believe this, or to vote with your feet economically. I’m not going to do that anymore. American founding principles mean more in the long-term. Not saying that. Murder to get gain, in secret, in order to do this, yes, high treason.
Stephen, I like your prioritized list. I would add that the “other side” vis-a-vis the UN, global communism, etc. are just as dangerous and being used in a pawn game to further rust away our freedoms. We can’t forget that. Our enemy does indeed have two faces.
You are so right Peter and we must base our fears on reality and fact.
I do think our governments use these “Bogeymen” to scare us into submission. Just look at Operation Gladio where hundreds of European citizens were killed by attacks orchestrated by the CIA in order to scare the population away from Communism.
Communism was a threat, dont get me wrong, but there is more to this false dialectic then Capitalism or Communism.
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3954415/Secret_Combinations_9-11_NWO_-_Joel_Skousen_-_Jack_Monnett
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3955752/Our_Awful_Situtation_-_Secret_Combinations_Above_Us
Peter, I was on vacation when this post went up and didn’t read it until now. I’m a bit late for the discussion, but wanted to tell you I thought this post was well written, quite interesting, and entertaining. Thanks!
Capitalism is evil and exploitative, but it has allowed us to retain most of our free agency (in contrast to global Communism, or so they say).
We have certain laws irrevocably decreed from heaven. Among these are: not to charge interest (Capitalism violates this), and consecration (Capitalism violates this).
Much is said in the Church about tithing, but very few members of the Church have any understanding of tithing’s purpose. Even Apostles and General Authorities of the Church appear to be as uninspired in their knowledge of tithing as the general membership.
We are commanding to tithe only in the absence of consecration. We are to tithe precisely because we believe in consecration and yearn for the day in which we can practice it. Tithing is supposed to bring our hearts closer to the cause of Zion and prepare us for the practice of consecration.
Much was said this past General Conference about tithing, but never once was consecration mentioned (I didn’t watch all of the talks, so maybe I missed something). But I did hear some leaders strongly urging “an honest tithing”, but instead of being Scriptural and honest about the purpose of tithing, it was explained that tithing’s purpose is to afford blessings!
This is a bastardization of tithing and a very selfish interpretation of its purpose!
It frustrates me that Mormons seem to be, in general, the most opposed to consecration and collective communitarian economies. But then again, the Lord will put a bit in the mouths of his people, and a hook in their jaws, and he will lead them astray for his own purposes!
Uhm that “nifty little CD” is actually a DVD with video evidence from a premiere physicist and devout latter-day saint. You would have realized this had you done more than glance at the label. Based on your review of the book, it was just as cursory.
How did I miss this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TPMS6tGOACo
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UFO Skeptic is right on the money! Further, the scriptures that support that Satan is trying to overthrow the Freedom of ALL nations is scripture…not speculation. If we think for half of a second that Satan is not organized, then you’re kidding yourself. It may appear that he is not organized, but that is what he wants. Do you think he is going to advertise the organization of his efforts? Do you think that he won’t use various means and devices to snare us? Because he uses so many different means and devices to destroy, it appears random to us. That is why we have the scriptures to make us aware of this, otherwise, we wouldn’t believe it.
Peter, I enjoyed your review. It was precise and funny. We know clearly that Secret Combinations have existed and exist today. The scriptures bear this out. I too question how organized [all] of them are. Is there one giant one which controls all others? Is there one giant one and lots of small ones which are indirectly connected? Who knows? The scriptures do say that there are will be one specific, world-wide combination which will seek to control the world. Keep in mind people, that Satan has been working at this for thousands of years. So he’s obviously made progress in that time. He also has no veil over his mind blocking memories of the pre-existence. So he has an immense amount of experience and knowledge of the past. So he’s very capable and very coniving. Certainly he is to be taken deadly serious as are his combinations. The best thing for us is to learn the principles of freedom and live them fully each day. This is our best defense because God will justify our lives and protect us. And no matter the power and breadth of combinations, we should never fear. We must remain hopeful, faithful, and loving. For ‘if God be with us, who can be against us?’ No Secret Combination can withstand God. We know who wins in the end. We simply must fight the good fight right now.
Interesting post. I googled this book today and landed on your site. Fascinating comments as well. Personally, I found Prophets, Principles, and National Surival an excellent source of information to study concerning this topic and find many parallels to some of the topics discussed above. Additionally, I believe we are still working towards Redemption of Zion.
If you don’t beleive that there is a worldwide conspiracy taking place that is lead by Bankers and World leaders, then you don’t understand the Book of Mormon at all, and have not taken even a few hour to do your homework. Until you have done this, then don’t comment about something that you obviously know nothing about. Yes Zion will provail when she pulls her head out of the sand long enough to really understand what is going on.
Wow I checked out that Jack Monnet book then did some old fashioned fact checking . How do you equate fact with theory ? Seems pretty cut and dried to me he list facts from 911 to Iran Contra .The drug dealing by freeway Ricky Ross funding Ollie Norths operation seems to mirror the Afgahn Poppy field in full Heroine production of today . One thing about critics of Guys like Jack Monnet is your always proven wrong by time . Like Hugh Nibley said time vindicateds the profits . Time also vindicates the truth in anyform. Its sad to see decendents of people who stood for freedom . You do understand that the early church under Smith was a much about freedom as it was about religion right ? Maybe you havent studied enough. No church in the country has ever excerted mor effort or time or money to see that the Constitution was uphld than the LDS church . I has also been in open rebellion on more than one occasion against those who would trample our Freedoms . You should actually find out some facts before you start popping off your mouth while you still have your head shoved up your ass.
Truth:
I read the first blogger here thinking this guy was going to make a case! About Jack Monnet’s being a fraud with specific info!
I think most of you guys watch to much TV with all those talking heads…so much so you start sounding like them. No point by point rebuttal just gibberish!
I started out questioning the income tax, the IRS and found the rabbit hole goes deep! When those I met along the way of study started talking about 911 I got upset. Now after reading and really looking at the events of that day and the ones that lead up to it my whole perspective has change. Do your home work turn off the talking heads! There are conspiring men in the last days! The devil does have power of his own, remember he tempted the lord by saying he would give him all the kingdoms of the earth if he would but worship him. How could this be a temptation if it were not true?
The reason people don’t want to believe in a grand secret combination that is no doubt prophesied about in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine & Covenants is because they are too proud to accept they are being deceived. The prophets know what’s going on but cannot tell us because that would inhibit our free agency. We can be good normal members of the church and still believe in secret combinations. If you don’t believe that Satan wants to control everyone and become King of this world through a mortal host, you don’t follow scripture.
I would say history is catching up with you…