We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons. Joseph Smith
Are you a Unitarian without knowing it?
We believe that:
- In the spirit of civil and religious liberty, equality of respect and opportunity is for everyone
- Everyone has the right to seek truth and meaning for themselves.
- The fundamental tools for doing this are your life experience, your reflection upon it, your intuitive understanding and the promptings of your own conscience.
- The best setting for this is a community that welcomes you for who you are, complete with your beliefs, doubts and questions.
We can be called religious ‘liberals’:
- Religious because we unite to celebrate and affirm values that embrace and reflect a greater reality than self.
- Liberal because we claim no exclusive revelation or status for ourselves; because we afford respect and toleration to those who follow different paths of faith.
We are called ‘Unitarians’:
- Because of our traditional insistence on divine unity, the oneness of God.
- Because we affirm the essential unity of humankind and of creation.
A liberal approach
Unitarians find their bond of unity in shared values, such as:
- The nurture of life’s spiritual dimension.
- The use of reason and honest doubt in the search for truth.
- Mutual respect and goodwill in personal relations.
- Constructive tolerance and openness towards the sincerely-held beliefs of others.
- Peace, compassion, justice and democracy in human affairs.
- Reverence for the earth and the whole natural system of which we are part.
It is the Unitarian experience that these values form a more effective foundation for true community than insistence on uniformity of belief and doctrine. Unitarians affirm that truth and humanity are best served where both the mind and the conscience are free. They maintain that no one book, institution or individual has the monopoly on truth, no matter what they may claim for themselves or their devotees may claim for them. Unitarians affirm that:
- Every person’s life involves developing a value-system by which she or he lives.
- People should enjoy individual liberty and private judgment in spiritual matters.
- Respect for integrity is preferable to the pressure to conform.
- Beliefs may change in the light of new understanding and insight.
- The final authority for your faith lies within your own conscience.
On our personal life journey we are aided and inspired by:
- The example and spiritual insights of others.
- Writings deemed ‘holy’ and ‘sacred’ by the various faith-traditions of humanity.
- Inherited traditions of critical and philosophical thought.
- The ongoing creative work of artists, musicians and writers.
- The scientist’s search for knowledge and understanding.
Here Unitarian PDF A Faith worth thinking about?
You Tube video explains it very well! Here
Questions
As you probably know there are 5th Generation Mormon/Masons who receive all the privileges affiliated with the church
But can you be a non-theist=non Christian Unitarian and a Mormon receive all the privileges affiliated with the church?
Even in our church there seems to be a growing number of active non-theist members?
Aren’t we encouraged to have Inter-Faith Partnerships and Dialogue associate with religions whose teachings differ from ours?
Do you disagree with some of their teachings?
Do you identify with some of their teaching and principles more than you do with some LDS teachings?
What are some of the good principles we should gather together and bring into Mormonism?
Comments 27
You make a very good argument here. It reminds me of my recent experience attending a small Baha’i service. However, doesn’t it make sense that a faith based on being all-inclusive… would INCLUDE us? Or have significant overlap? Still, I think the more liberal-ish Mormons would have an easy time embracing many of the tenets of the Unitarians… after all, we believe in a “universal” resurrection. And a “universal” Atonement…
I would even suggest that we take the argument further. As Orson F. Whitney once noted, there is a certain population whose knowledge of the gospel has been deliberately (albeit temporarily) veiled by God’s own good will, if only because they can perform the necessary work in the uplifting of mankind more effectively if they remain outside the Church during mortality. Of course, the missionary work rolls forward, since we really cannot distinguish between these groups.
For me, however, Whitney’s quote can be quite effective in helping us to de-insularize Jell-O belt Latter-day Saints. It helps us recognize that the battle lines are not clearly drawn between the LDS movement vs. the world. In fact, it helps us recognize that in many circumstances, it’s not a battle at all. Sometimes, as Jesus noted, “those who are not against us are with us.”
“Everyone has the right to seek truth and meaning for themselves.
The fundamental tools for doing this are your life experience, your reflection upon it, your intuitive understanding and the promptings of your own conscience. ”
I think this slightly conflicts with our view that a very fundamental way to seek/receive truth is through the spirit and prayer. We also use life experience, our own reflection, our intuitive understanding and our conscience, but leaving out God’s will, the Holy Ghost, revelation, etc. makes the list of fundamental tools so completely inadequate that I can’t claim to agree. I think many would have the same issue.
The rest sounds really compatible.
My question is why is “claim[ing] exclusive revelation” mutually exclusive with “afford[ing] respect and toleration to those who follow different paths of faith”?
That there are strong parallels between Unitarianism and Mormonism is undeniable, but the differences make an essential difference. From what I understand, Mormonism believes that each must seek their own path to it, but that there is a discrete Truth. Unitarianism believes that all truth found by an individual is Truth.
The Mormon view should not preclude respecting others’ privilege to seek that Truth in their own way, whether or not we agree with it.
Author
3 JKS but leaving out God’s will, the Holy Ghost, revelation, etc. makes the list of fundamental tools so completely inadequate that I can’t claim to agree.
From what I understand with UNITARIANISM is their is Unitarianism with a small u which I believe believes in Christianity which probably encompasses God’s will, the Holy Ghost, revelation etc.. Then their is the Unitarianism with a capital U which is the non-theist.
There is one major obstacle for a good member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to also be a Unitarian. Latter-Day Saints claim exclusive priesthood authority from God, something that is in disharmony with Unitarianism. In conjunction with exclusive priesthood authority, the Latter-Day Saints also claim that their prophet is exclusively entitled to receive revelation for the entire world. On the other hand, Latter-Day Saints also claim that each person has the right to receive revelation for themselves and their own families.
As I’ve pointed many times before, a claim that there is no monopoly on truth presupposes that there is a monopoly on at least that truth. (And is a strong sign of a belief on monopoly on truths in other areas.)
If there were really in existence a religion that didn’t believe it had a monopoly on some truths, it would paradoxically never make such a claim. I imagine it would encourage everyone to believe what they believe, actually.
But of course this just means that Unitarians and Mormons are even more alike then James was suggesting. Both are religions that claim some monopoly on truth, but not on all truth. Both believe all religions have much truth and we should tolerate other religions… no, we should feel good about them (most of them anyhow) because all “come from God” to one degree or another.
Author
4 Silver Rain
“From what I understand, Mormonism believes that each must seek their own path to it, but that there is a discrete Truth. Unitarianism believes that all truth found by an individual is Truth.”
I agree with you the path to a discrete truth appears to be more solid for Mormons – following patriarchal blessings, bishops council, the brethren. Even though the tools are looser to find so to speak the discrete truth with Unitarianism they may feel what they find is just as profound to them.
“Unitarianism believes that all truth found by an individual is Truth.” Don’t you think we do the same thing as Mormons we get so much information we filter what applies to us individual and what doesn’t, were all buffet Mormons!
Author
6 Shoal Creek
“There is one major obstacle for a good member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to also be a Unitarian. Latter-Day Saints claim exclusive priesthood authority from God, something that is in disharmony with Unitarianism.”
If your a non theist Unitarian isn’t it more a philosophy of life not Christian Based which goes with
We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons. Joseph Smith
Author
7 Bruce
“a claim that there is no monopoly on truth presupposes that there is a monopoly on at least that truth. (And is a strong sign of a belief on monopoly on truths in other areas”
I think I see what your saying Bruce. But it really is down to whats in the hearts of their leadership. You said strong sign which makes it sound like they feel they have the monoply of truth in other areas! Maybe in their leaders and congregations hearts they don’t feel that they feel the emphasis on that. As their principle states
Unitarians affirm that truth and humanity are best served where both the mind and the conscience are free. They maintain that no one book, institution or individual has the monopoly on truth, no matter what they may claim for themselves or their devotees may claim for them. Unitarians affirm that
They seem pretty free flowing to me
“Unitarians affirm that truth and humanity are best served where both the mind and the conscience are free. They maintain that no one book, institution or individual has the monopoly on truth, no matter what they may claim for themselves or their devotees may claim for them.
They seem pretty free flowing to me.”
Mormonism also claims that no one book, institution or individual has the monopoly on truth. I have never read any quote by any prophet or apostle that claims we have a monopoly on truth – that there is no truth outside what we know. There is a difference between, “We HAVE (currently understand) all truth,” and, “We BELIEVE and will accept all truth.” Most of us don’t live that, but that’s a whole different discussion.
I don’t think it is possible to believe Moroni, Joseph, the 9th Article of Faith, the D&C, etc. and conclude that we “have” all truth. We don’t.
Author
Ray
“Mormonism also claims that no one book, institution or individual has the monopoly on truth. I have never read any quote by any prophet or apostle that claims we have a monopoly on truth – that there is no truth outside what we know.”
I DON’T THINK ANYONE SO FAR IS DISPUTING THE ABOVE -In fact historically it appears we have used TRUTH’s from other institutions.
I think I confused things by saying “monopoly on truth” when I should have said “exclusive truth claims.”
Some religions do claim an monopoly on truth. That is to say, they claim that they alone have truth and everyone else has basically nothing of value. Evangelical and Fundamentalists Christians (actually, I’d say all Catholic/Protestant traditions, but I guess I’m not sure I know EVERY one) are examples of religions that claim such a monoply on truth — or at least historically have.
Mormonism, by comparision, has never claimed a monoply on truth in that sense. They have always claimed other religions have truths and even saving truths. There is even a strong tradition in Mormonism of God speaking to all religions. I.e. we are very Bahai like in that regard.
What Mormons really have are exclusive truth claims. In so far as they and another religion are at odds with each other, Mormons believe themselves to be right and the other to be wrong. But of course, ALL religions that have any truth claim must admit this is true for them as well.
Specifically, I think where Mormons differ from a religion like the Unitarians is that that have exclusive views of how one obtains the highest form of salvation, which to Mormon’s is Deification or becoming one with God. Mormons believe that all must, at some point, in this life or the life to come, accept the truth about God and also accept certain ordiances or they can’t become fully one with Him via the needed covenant.
(Becoming “one with God” is often refered to as becoming “a god” yourself, though perhaps it’s misleading to say it that way since there is still only one God-will (or God-being) no matter how many persons you add to “God” in Mormon theology. You simply join that one God as a new “person.”)
My guess would be that Unitarians have nothing equivalent to that. They probably either don’t believe in life after death at all, or if they do it’s undeveloped doctrinally, or maybe it’s not focused on, or something like that. I suspect they are more focused on the here and now and less on what it all means. But I don’t know, not being a unitarian. It would be interesting to explore that further.
Regardless, we probably have a very distinct difference between Mormons and Unitarians in that Mormons do claim exclusive priesthood over a certain type of salvation. On the other hand, the fact that Unitarians don’t believe that form of salvation exists and thus Mormons are hoping for something that isn’t going to happen is as much a mutually exclusive truth claim as Mormons believing that it does exist and is going to happen.
So I am not convinced at all that Unitarians get “extra tolerance points” for not claiming to hold any authority from God like those crazy exclusive Mormons do while authoratively denying the existence of the Mormon’s most important beliefs about salvation. It seems to me that this is just your typically mutually exclusive truth claims that exist between any two religions.
I’ve always found Mormonism refreshing in this regard. They have found a way to claim neither a “monoply on all truth” nor make the self contradictory truth claim that they have no exclusive truth claims. I’m always amazed that they were able to find a middle ground that made rational sense when so many other religions simply end up with the obviously false view that they have a monoply on truth or with a contradiction on the existence of exclusive truth claims. I’m sure Mormons aren’t the only religion out there that has found a way to navigate this maze, but they are probably the only Christian religion that has.
“So I am not convinced at all that Unitarians get “extra tolerance points” for not claiming to hold any authority from God like those crazy exclusive Mormons do while authoratively denying the existence of the Mormon’s most important beliefs about salvation”
Um, just to clarify, I wasn’t claiming anyone claimed that. I was just putting it out there for the sake of argument because I’ve seen people make such claims in the past. It wasn’t meant as a response to anything anyone has said in this thread.
Author
“Regardless, we probably have a very distinct difference between Mormons and Unitarians in that Mormons do claim exclusive priesthood over a certain type of salvation. On the other hand, the fact that Unitarians don’t believe that form of salvation exists and thus Mormons are hoping for something that isn’t going to happen is as much a mutually exclusive truth claim as Mormons believing that it does exist and is going to happen.”
Bruce enjoyed your clear thinking in 13. I wonder though about the above if they are kind of like the Masons in that you can go into it being a Budhist, Jewish , Mormon and it doesn’t really matter. I would think at least the non theist branch would accept a belief in an exclusive priesthood over a certain type of salvation. But I am the same as you I know very little about them.
“Don’t you think we do the same thing as Mormons we get so much information we filter what applies to us individual and what doesn’t, were all buffet Mormons!”
I’ve heard that fallacy before, and don’t subscribe to it. There is a vast difference between absorbing principles and learning how to apply them in your own situation and subscribing only to some of the principles. I think that fallacy is one invented by “cafeteria Mormons” to sooth their own feelings at being so.
I think you came close to my meaning, but not quite. From what I understand, roughly speaking, Unitarianism is Relativism while Mormonism is Absolutism with the caveat that we do not yet fully understand the absolute.
sooth=soothe
Author
17 SILVER RAIN
“Don’t you think we do the same thing as Mormons we get so much information we filter what applies to us individual and what doesn’t, were all buffet Mormons!”
“I’ve heard that fallacy before, and don’t subscribe to it. There is a vast difference between absorbing principles and learning how to apply them in your own situation and subscribing only to some of the principles. I think that fallacy is one invented by “cafeteria Mormons” to sooth their own feelings at being so.”
SILVER RAIN WOULDN’T YOU RATHER BE BUFFET MORMON OR WOULD YOU RATHER SUBSCRIBE TO THE FOLLOWING. IF YOU DO SUBSCRIBE TO THIS THAT’S OBVIOUSILY YOUR RIGHT. BUT I WOULD IMAGINE MOST MEMBERS NOW DON’T BUY IT AND I GUESS ARE CAFETERIA MEMBERS!
The Mormon apostle Mark E. Petersen gave a talk at Brigham Young University in 1954 concerning race relations. Here are select parts of that talk:
“Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of our WORTHINESS OR LACK OF IT in the pre-existent life?…can we account in any other of way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest AFRICA, or in flood-ridden CHINA, or among the starving hordes of INDIA, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Indians, some as Negroes, some as Americans, some as Latter-day Saints. THESE ARE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with SINNERS AND SAINTS, rewarding all according to their deeds….
Using the Chinese as an example:
“Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with A DARK SKIN, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. IN SPITE OF WHATEVER THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE TO JUSTIFY BEING BORN OVER THERE AS CHINAMEN, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn’t the mercy of God marvelous?
Concerning Africans:
“Think of the Negro, CURSED AS TO THE PRIESTHOOD…. This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a BLACK SKIN, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory.”
On civil rights. What people of African decent want:
“The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth…. We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject… “I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn’t just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn’t that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the negro seeks absorbtion with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage.That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feeling to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, ‘First we pity, then endure, then embrace.’…
On segregation. A Godly principle:
“Now let’s talk SEGREGATION again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of SEGREGATION…. When he told Enoch not to preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were BLACK, the Lord engaged in SEGREGATION. When He CURSED the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in SEGREGATION…. “Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He SEGREGATED them….The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse—as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. (2 Nephi 5:21) And He certainly SEGREGATED the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there….
Mr. Petersen would that every person of African decent drive a cadillac:
“Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES, I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, ‘what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.’ Only here we have the reverse of the thing— WHAT GOD HATH SEPARATED, LET NOT MAN BRING TOGETHER AGAIN.”
(Race Problems as They Affect the Church, an address by Apostle Mark E. Petersen, delivered at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, Brigham Young University, August 27,1954)
James—old news. Current revelation debunks all that. It’s not being a “cafeteria Mormon” to be current with God’s will, since part of being a faithful Mormon is subscribing to continuing revelation. I live in the present, not the past, not to mention that was not doctrinal to begin with. Please, if you can bring up something about Mormon doctrine which you think do not believe, do so. It would be best if you could find something within my lifetime. It would be even better if you could manage to restrict yourself to the last ten years.
Author
19 Thanks Silver Rain I agree with you its not Doctrine it was given at BYU. I think it has to be given during conference to be considered doctrine. Do you think many considered it doctrine though as it wasn’t just a statement he gave off the cuff? Are you refering Bruce R. McConkie and the policy change of Blacks and the priesthood when you mentioned current revelation debunks all that.
“We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world… We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past.”
Please, if you can bring up something about Mormon doctrine which you think do not believe, do so. It would be best if you could find something within my lifetime. It would be even better if you could manage to restrict yourself to the last ten years.
Once again I am with you on the above you sound quite progressive but the old issues are still with us. We had friends around tonight who strongly believe that the world is 6,000 years old. Many older members and maybe not so young members still believe in much of Mark E Petersons views above.
It would be best if you could find something within my lifetime. It would be even better if you could manage to restrict yourself to the last ten years.
Not much really exciting stuff to talk about in the last 10 years – Duty to God, Personal progress, Prop 8 has been talked to death.
“I wonder though about the above if they are kind of like the Masons in that you can go into it being a Budhist, Jewish , Mormon and it doesn’t really matter”
Hmm… yes, this could be the case. In which case, there is a definite difference here.
Still, I guess the answer then would be “yes, you can be both.” However, there would be the caveat that you can’t really fully believe in both at the same time literally.
I guess it’s like dual citizenship. You can theoretically only be am American citizen and nothing else, but you can be a dual citizen if you are Canadian. So, of course, that means if you become American first, then become Canadian, you can be both. But if the two went to war, you’d have to still choose sides because then they are mutually exclusive. 🙂
And of course the Canadians would win the war because we’ve already tried it twice and lost both times. 😛
At the baptism of a young man in our ward last Saturday, the YM Pres. (just released from the Bishopric) made the statement to the young man that “we don’t have a monopoly on truth and goodness.” He asked him to bring all the good he knew and would discover wherever he went and whatever he studied into our ward and the Church, so we could learn from him. Not a single person in the packed room batted an eye or disagreed in any way.
I also think the idea that we have or know all truth is a caricature – unfortunately, one some members actually believe.
Author
21 Bruce “I guess it’s like dual citizenship. You can theoretically only be am American citizen and nothing else, but you can be a dual citizen if you are Canadian. So, of course, that means if you become American first, then become Canadian, you can be both. But if the two went to war, you’d have to still choose sides because then they are mutually exclusive.”
Bruce my kids are American and British dual citizens. A couple of ex pat friends of mine are now citizens of the UK. I wonder if the laws have changed because until recently I thought the same as above that if I became a Brit I would denounce my American Citizenship but it doesn’t appear to be the case any more
Author
22 Ray your bishopric sound very progressive
“He asked him to bring all the good he knew and would discover wherever he went and whatever he studied into our ward and the Church, so we could learn from him. Not a single person in the packed room batted an eye or disagreed in any way.”
I would love it if we really grasped that idea and when converts came into the church we picked their brains and applied it into our wards.
“Bruce my kids are American and British dual citizens. A couple of ex pat friends of mine are now citizens of the UK. I wonder if the laws have changed because until recently I thought the same as above that if I became a Brit I would denounce my American Citizenship but it doesn’t appear to be the case any more”
I am not up on the laws, so I don’t know. It is my understanding that the USA does allow dual citizenship until you reach 18, then you have to choose.
But of course, if the other country does allow dual citizenship (like Canada) you can always just declare for the USA and then get the dual citizenship.
To be honest, my “source” for the above information is my jr. high school social studies teacher based on what I remember her saying way back when. So take it with a grain of salt.
I stumbled across this website doing a google search for economic hard times unitarian. Go figure.
I am technically still a Mormon – on the books, have gone to the temple, am sealed to my husband, etc. I remain on record out of respect for my husband who shares with me a toleration for all religious beliefs. My request for membership termination would cause him greater pain than I would obtain in some celebration of legal separation of an faith institution I no longer believe.
I am a Unitarian Universalist(UU) and have been for 15 years. I still have great respect for Mormons; particularly their sense of community and commitment. In reading some of the writings of Richard Bushman, I realized one major underlying belief that separates Mormons from any Christians as well a UU. That is salvation through building the kingdom directed by the priesthood. This is reflected in LDS history and present day.
What LDS and UU’s have in common:
1. Inherent belief in the goodness and worth of everyone (no original sin)
2. Priesthood of all believers,however interpreted quite differently
3. Historically, a very different view of the Trinity from mainline Christianity
4. Historically, God is loving; there is no hell; all receive salvation.
5. Appreciation for truth in all religions and in all ways of thinking about the world underscored by the belief to love your neighbor.
Personally, I am a theist. I’m quite ready to accept that I in some form existed before I was born – and I believe in some kind of afterlife but certainly not as defined as the LDS plan of salvation.
I joined the Mormon church at 19 and left in my 40’s. I was a feminist and supported in all ways by my husband. I have never been harrassed by any church member or authority. I find Mormons usually kind and respectful but living in a very different culture with their own language of truth which affects their perception in all things.
In faith
Nancy
Author
Nancy thanks for talking time to check out Mormon Matters. I enjoyed your thoughtful parallels between the Unitarians and Mormons. You may want to check out a forum called Open Mormon its a valuable group especially when one of the spouses is TBM and one is exploring.