Within the past ten days, Mormonism has been rocked by a recoding and transcript released through MormonLeaks that depicts the confessions of a former president of the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah—Joseph Bishop—about his improper sexual behavior with at least two sister missionaries, including the one who in an interview with Bishop confronted him about his attempting to rape her. This episode, featuring the wonderful panelists Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Katie Langston, and Judy Dushku, reflects on this story and the developments that have unfolded since it broke, including the LDS Church’s Newsroom responses to it—responses that many have criticized for their wrong-spiritedness and for actually causing additional harm and trauma for many members of the church community, especially those who have been victims of sexual abuse or who have had any experiences in which the difficult claims they have made have not been believed or have been ignored, leading to no action taken against perpetrators. Host Dan Wotherspoon and the panel in no way offer quarter for the tremendous evils depicted in this story and its aftermath, but they also consider issues of how this public scandal and shaming being felt by leaders who failed these sisters in this and other cases might lead to positive changes in church policies regarding one-on-one interviews behind closed doors, and in many other areas. In fact, later in the evening this episode was recorded, the church indeed did release new guidelines for bishopric and stake presidency interviews.
Finally, the four of them consider these scandals and their effects on the spiritual lives of Latter-day Saints, particularly on those who had already been struggling with aspects of the church and wondering if it is wise for them to continue to associate with it. How do the panelists deal with news like this and other disturbing revelations about church and the human failings of those in key leadership positions? Are they able to separate in their minds and souls such things from their own deeply held spiritual convictions? And if so, how?
This two-part episode is a great discussion, full of compassion, insight, and hopefulness. Please download and listen to both sections!
NOTE: As this is released, it is being rated “explicit” only as a precaution due to the subject matter being discussed, as well as two instances of swearing (not any of the “big” ones, we promise!) and an anatomical term and description that isn’t one that many Mormons are used to hearing or discussing.
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Links:
Selected Salt Lake Tribune stories:
Peggy Fletcher Stack, “Former Missionary Training Center President Admits to Asking a Young Missionary to Expose Her Breasts in the ’80s, BYU Police Say,” Salt Lake Tribune, 22 March 2018
Peggy Fletcher Stack, “After Watching Missionary Training Center Sex Abuse Scandal Unfold, Some Mormons Say Their Church Needs a Culture Change,” Salt Lake Tribune, 24 March 2018
Peggy Fletcher Stack, “Women Accusing Former MTC President of Attempted Rape in 1984 Says She Now Appreciates MormonLeaks Release of Her Explosive Recording,” Salt Lake Tribune, 24 March 2018
Peggy Fletcher Stack and Benjamin Wood, “Mormon Leaders Unveil New Rules Allowing Another Adult in Room for Interviews,” Salt Lake Tribune, 26 March 2018
LDS Newsroom Statements:
LDS Newsroom, “Church Statement About Alleged Sexual Assault By Former MTC President,” 20 March 2018 (also contains an updated statement issued 23 March 2018)
LDS Newsroom, “First Presidency Directs Leaders to Prevent and Respond to Abuse,” 26 March 2018 (includes links to FP letter and the revised Handbook of Instructions pages titled “Preventing and Responding to Abuse”)
I can no longer find on the LDS Newsroom site their statement from a few months ago affirming the Church’s stance on the importance of privacy in interviews with church leaders. Does anyone have the link I can include here?
Additional Items:
Information about “March for Children,” Protect LDS Children organization event 30 March 2018
“MormonLeaks Releases Audio of Former Mission President Admitting to Inappropriate Interactions with Women,” MormonLeaks, 19 March 2018 (contains links to both audio recording and transcript)
Judy Dushku, “I’ve Been a Mormon for 75 Years. Here’s What I Know About the Church and Assault,” The Cut, 13 February 2013 (related to the Rob Porter scandal)
Website of the THRIVEGulu Foundation (Judy Dushku, Founder)
Article about Eliza Dushku’s “Me, too” story (includes full text of her Facebook post)
Mormon Matters Podcast Episodes Mentioned in this Conversation or Relevant to the Topic:
“Protecting Ourselves and Loved Ones in Ecclesiastical Situations,” Mormon Matters podcast Ep. 464, 28 February 2018
“The Abuse and Forgiveness Dilemma,” (Encore) Mormon Matters podcast Ep. 420, 25 October 2017
“Revelation,” Mormon Matters podcast Ep. 433-435, 12 December 2017
“Worthiness,” Mormon Matters podcast Ep. 284-285, 29 June 2015
“The Next Mormons,” Mormon Matters podcast Ep. 337, 22 July 2016
Comments 7
It may have served wise to also include on the panel a professional legal resource. The heart of this particular situation comes down to a rape accusation. If this were purely a accusation of inappropriate behavior by a leader in the Church I would absolutely agree with the panelist on how the Church should have responded initially. However, since the tape does not reveal a clear confession of rape but of inappropriate behavior, which of course needs a proper response and action by the Church, the formal response to the media couldn’t have been as pastoral as we would ideally want.
In an ideal world I too wish the Church would have responded with a more sensitive narrative. The reality is that the response is a purely legal one due to the seriousness of the victims allegations. Sure, this will not appease the sensibilities of all those who are badly hurt by abuse and have been harmed by authority etc.. I guess that is understandable. Nevertheless, let’s hope for absolute clarity that can only be navigated by an objective investigation which cannot merely fall on the Church’s behalf alone since we are really faced with a serious criminal matter vs. just an ecclesiastical breach.
These situations are not easy by any means but let’s let this work through and hopefully we can have the assurance that real justice is served and judgement will be met using sound due process and not judged by the scraps of media narratives and internet hype alone.
Sorry if I sound too apologetic but I do fear our country and it’s citizens are beginning to utilize pitch forks versus sound constitutional due process. Hyper-Activism mingled with politics have possibly stolen our reasoning. Didn’t we once used to believe “innocence till proven guilty” was the standard? It now appears that accusation alone may be the final word. I hope I’m wrong and hope most feel the same way. If not….well…..I guess wil have to stand alone.
Just wanted to add one more thought that I believe needs attention. The idea that the first recourse of a criminal offense is to first report to a crisis counselor or center is concerning. If we are referring to a abusive criminal event, which is also defined as abuse, the first thing that should be done is to report such immediately to the civic authorities. If the Church hotline is staffed with legal resources that would be inline with sound reason. Example: A victim of a home evasion, though such could cause horrible traumatic damage, should obviously be reported first to civil authorities not a crisis manager. The second recourse then could be for crisis support to help the victim deal with the trauma. How many stories do you hear in which a victim of a sexual attack doesn’t report such to authorities in a timely manner in which results in the abuser or attacker possibly evading prosecution. Obviously, it is understandable that your panelist would have a bias per the occupational perspective. Neverthkess, I would humbly disagree with her statement.
Enjoyed the podcast! Though, the group could have had a rounder background to explore all the nuances that are involved. These things are more complicated unfortunately than sometimes appears on the surface.
On a positive note some of the pastoral discussion was enlighting. I just though wonder if we really have all the information to make some of the judgements being made by the panelists. I know I don’t.
Thankful for this podcast! I entered the MTC on February 2nd, 1984, and these events took place only weeks before then, according to the accuser. I have been quite devastated by this and so appreciate the gentle soothing this broadcast has brought me. May I also say that Jennifer Finlayson-Fife’s answer to her prayer that there are false traditions in all religions, and that she was “called” to stay, felt like an answer to my prayers as well! Thanks to all of the contributors and thanks, Dan, especially, for the wonderful Christ-like work you do.
I’m a avid Mormon Matters listener… Most episodes are quite good, this episode was not good. Incredible boring, it seems like Dan felt like he had to say something, with this issue in the news, but frankly seems more interested in hearing his own voice than what his guests had to say. And, I really don’t see why an ex-Mormon pastor of some other church has a seat at the table… Its not like her church has a pristine background with abuse. And finally… DALE’s comment was spot on… ” I just wonder if we really have all the information to make some of the judgements being made by the panelists.”
The only bright spot of the blog… Although not her best blog appearance, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife is always good!
I’d like to add a female voice and additional thoughts to the concerns brought up by the previous comments from male listeners. After a long tradition of undisclosed sexual predation in human history, it is encouraging that awareness is being raised in all sectors of society, secular and religious, of this very serious matter. But I’m concerned with what I see as a pendulum swing to the other extreme. I’ve heard comments on Open Stories podcasts and in this podcast that conclude or assume that the rape charge is true when we don’t know if it is or not. Bishop consistently denied, or at least did not remember, attempting to rape the accuser. The admissions he does make are a far cry from the rape charge leveled against him. It seems that accusation has little chance of being proven, and, in that case, we mustn’t assume that he did try to rape her. In addition, I’m concerned with the notion of automatically believing an accuser of sexual abuse. The standards of due process are founded on the principle of “innocent until proven guilty.” I think it would be better to say, “We take seriously all charges of sexual abuse and take measures to protect possible victims until the truth of the charges can be determined.” This crisis has the potential of dividing us in other ways if we are not careful.
Dan,
In the press conference, Mckenna expressed that media has it wrong, Bishop didn’t ask her to expose her breasts, it was the other victim.
Thanks for a great podcast! Lisa
Author
Thanks, Lisa! I caught that, too, and meant to put a note about that above. Forgot!